Mark A: Fix Brewers Pitching... who goes?

[logan82]

Dickerson's career splits vs RHP are .283/.372/.437/.808. Add good defense and you have the big half of a pretty nice platoon. Power kind of stinks but that is a pretty nice OBP.

[TooLiveBrew]

That's that hypothetical 'leadoff guy so we can slide Rickie down in the order' BF has been dreaming about the past three or so seasons.

[thebruce44]

I honestly think an outfield platoon of Dickerson/whoever has real potential to outperform what Hart would do next season in RF.

But that's not necessarily a good thing. Hart could be .750 OPS with Dickerson/platoon-mate at .760, in which case

Well yea, thats why I wasn't really in favor of extending Hart, but at least the defense would be much less frustrating to watch in RF. Also, assuming Hart is at first that probably helps out the entire IF defense.

[twobrewers]

How about the C.J. Wilson experiment?

 

We could sign Kevin Gregg or Grant Balfour and turn them into starting pitchers.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Unfortunately, I'm starting to think that Weeks is the top candidate to get traded along with Prince. He recently signed with CC's agent, who the Brewers reportedly had some trouble dealing with. This would make an extension harder, and he also has a replacement in Lawrie a year away probably from the big leagues. I'd rather sell high on Hart or McGehee personally, but I think this is the route the Brewers may go. I doubt Lawrie would take over 2b in 2011, so someone like Lopez would likely be signed as a stopgap in this scenario. What I would prefer is either Hart is traded, and either Gamel takes over RF, or Dickerson platoons with someone, or McGehee is traded and Gamel just takes over 3b.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Possible 2011 lineups in the above 3 scenarios

 

Escobar SS

Hart RF

Braun LF

McGehee 3B

Gamel 1B

Cain CF

FA 2B

Lucroy C

 

Weeks 2B

Escobar SS

Braun LF

McGehee 1B

Gamel 3B

Cain CF

Dickerson/FA platoon RF

Lucroy C

 

Weeks 2B

Escobar SS

Hart 1B

Braun LF

Gamel 3B

Cain CF

Dickerson/FA platoon RF

Lucroy C

[monty57]

I agree on the Weeks front. If he is unwilling to sign an extension, then we definitely have to start looking at what we could get for him in trade. His value would have to be very high after the season he's had, so I'd think he would at least return as much as we could've received for Hart and probably a lot more. If Prince and Weeks could bring back two young arms for our rotation, it wouldn't be too difficult to find a stopgap 2B for a year until Lawrie takes over. You mentioned Lopez, who should come pretty cheaply after a so-so year. Counsell will probably be back, and could get a good number of starts at 2B. We also have Cruz at AAA, who I believe is a pretty good defender. That's not to mention that Lawrie could be up mid-season 2011. We would definitely take an offensive hit without Weeks, but if he's going to be gone at the end of the year anyway, it may be the route we take.

 

That said, if he will sign an extension, I think that's the better route, and if we trade someone (other than Prince), we trade whichever of McGehee/Gamel we get the best deal for. The article from milwaukeebrewers.com in which Gamel said he didn't feel comfortable at 1B makes it seem even more likely that it would be one of those two who would be dealt if a second trade is made.

[Invader3K]

I'd have to believe we could get a couple really nice young pitchers for Fielder and Weeks (either in separate deals or packaged together). Not crazy about dealing Weeks, but if he won't extend, the team has to what is best for the long term.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I don't think we're gonna mess around with possibly losing players like Weeks to free agency. If Melvin can't extend him before next season, I think he'll for sure get traded just like Prince. I don't want this to happen, and I hope we can keep Weeks, but this is a definite possibility.

[craigharmann]

Fielder plus their '11 salary differential to the Rays for Matt Garza

McGehee and a prospect like Lasker to the Marlins for Nolasco and Helms (if he's not a FA)

 

2b-Weeks

CF-Cain

LF-Braun

3B-Gamel

1B-Hart

RF-Dickerson/Katin

SS-Escobar

C-Lucroy

Bench: Katin, Inglett, Helms, Counsell, & Kotaras

Rotation: Gallardo, Garza, Wolf, Nolasco, Parra/Narveson

Bullpen: Parra/Narveson, Axford, Hawkins, Braddock, Coffey, Loe, & ....

I like this, but I might try to sign someone to play RF. I would do this

 

2b-Weeks

CF-Cain

LF-Braun

3B-Gamel

1B-Hart

RF- FA guy

SS-Escobar

C-Lucroy

Bench: Dickerson,Katin, Inglett, Counsell, & Kotaras

Rotation: Gallardo, Garza, Wolf, Nolasco, Rogers

Bullpen: Parra, Axford, McClendon, Braddock, Stetter (LOOGY), Loe, Jeffress

[PrinceEatMeat]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/102093458.html

 

Thought this was interesting from TH. Also includes a link to an article from Jayson Stark. Here's a quote from TH, "Stark was told the Brewers wanted two young front-line pitchers for Fielder back then and would have done a deal if a team made such an offer." Apparently, Melvin thinks he can get both starters that we need just for Fielder. I doubt that happens, but you never know I guess.

[Invader3K]

Well, if he couldn't get two pitchers for Fielder this summer, I don't see how it happens in the winter.

[GAME05]

aren't we undervaluing what Fielder would get in a return considering he will very likely net two first-round draft picks to whichever team picks him up?

[nate82]

For one season of Holliday the Rockies got in return Greg Smith LHP, Carlos Gonzalez OF, and Huston Street RP. Now take into consideration that Fielder is a heck of a lot more valuable than Holliday was at that time. All it will take really is one team to get desperate for a bat and Melvin will be able to get the players he wants. Gonzalez is probably the biggest steal in that deal though. Melvin will probably get a deal that is a little bit better than what the Rockies got in return for Holliday. I believe that the Brewers will probably have to take back an older player and won't get two young ready starting pitchers to plug into the rotation for Fielder that deal was never available to Melvin and probably won't be this winter.

 

If the Rays had more financial flexibility I believe they would be the team that would go after Prince but I just do not see them having that financial flexibility to do that nor the will to trade for Fielder. That leaves a few teams like the Red Sox, Mariners, White Sox, Dodgers, and Cubs that need a 1B/DH player.

[RockCoCougars]

I honestly think an outfield platoon of Dickerson/whoever has real potential to outperform what Hart would do next season in RF.

Let's bring back Kevin Mench. He mashes lefties, you know. Can he play right though?

 

Seriously, I must be watching a different Dickerson than a lot of people. In my view, if the Brewers depend on him for anything significant next season, they are in for a long one. He reminds me of a Mouton (not sure which one), and using a NFL term, is nothing more than 'training camp fodder' from what I've seen. I could see Hart playing first and Gamel in right, but it doesn't appear that Gamel is going to get a chance under this regime.

[Never Outhustled]

Fielder plus their '11 salary differential to they

 

Rays for Matt Garza

 

McGehee and a prospect like Lasker to the Marlins for Nolasco and

Helms (if he's not a FA)

 

2b-Weeks

CF-Cain

LF-Braun

3B-Gamel

1B-Hart

RF-Dickerson/Katin

SS-Escobar

C-Lucroy

Bench: Katin, Inglett, Helms, Counsell, & Kotaras

Rotation: Gallardo, Garza, Wolf, Nolasco, Parra/Narveson

Bullpen: Parra/Narveson, Axford, Hawkins, Braddock, Coffey, Loe, & ....

I like this, but I might try to sign someone to play RF. I would do this

 

2b-Weeks

CF-Cain

LF-Braun

3B-Gamel

1B-Hart

RF- FA guy

u

SS-Escobar

C-Lucroy

Bench: Dickerson,Katin, Inglett, Counsell, & Kotaras

URotation: Gallardo, Garza, Wolf, Nolasco, Rogers

Bullpen: Parra, Axford, McClendon, Braddock, Stetter (LOOGY), Loe, Jeffress

 

 

How about Jason Werth? He has a higher OPS than any Brewer or Phillie. We can easily afford him. He'd improve the defense.

[Baldkin]

Werth is going to be the #2 OF on the market this off season, I'd wager he goes for 15-18 a year and 5-6 years. I don't think it's wise for the Brewers to be spending that kind of money on a corner OF (where Gamel and Lawrie may still end up). I'd rather they spend that kind of cash on a guy like Beltre.

[brewmann04]

hitting is the last thing this team needs

[TooLiveBrew]

Not true at all, since Fielder is so likely to be traded this offseason. Werth would be a good acquisition, but I worry about the money & years it'd take to bring him in.

[JohnBriggs12]

hitting is the last thing this team needs

Last thing?

 

No, it would take a major pitching improvement just to get to average. It wouldn't take much for the hitting to fall back to average and then what do you have? Another non-contending team. The trick is to maintain a top or near top offense at the same time you're improving your pitching. Assuming you don't have to look at upgrades in both areas is short-sighted. This team's offense is good but it could be better.

[JohnBriggs12]

Getting back to pitching, Narveson (4-1, 3.95, 1.14 WHIP, since the break) is looking less and less like he's part of the problem and more and more like he's part of the solution. In fact, his WHIP as a starter (1.324) for the season is actually better than Gallardo's 1.360.

 

Given his pre-arby status, I think he along with Yo and Wolf figure to be 3/5 of next years rotation.

[Invader3K]

Given his pre-arby status, I think he along with Yo and Wolf figure to be 3/5 of next years rotation.

I'd have no problem with that. Narveson seems like he's really stepped things up as of late. Maybe he just needed to get fully "stretched out" as a starter in order to hit his stride. Starting him in the bullpen this season really hurt him early, I think.

[logan82]

Maybe he just needed to get fully "stretched out" as a starter in order to hit his stride.

 

It took him 3+ months of starting to get stretched out? So does that mean he will be ready sometime in June next year?

[endaround]

Narveson FIP by month Apr 5.90, May 3.13. Jun 4.79, Jul 6.03, Aug 3.85, Sep 2.43. Looks pretty much like you'd expect a journeyman starter to look like. He'll have a string of good starts and a string of bad starts. He is what he is, a 4/5 type due to his problems with RH hitters.

[monty57]

Even if we pick up a #1/2 and a #3/4 this offseason, we'll still need a #5, and Narveson probably leads the pack in that race right now. If he's the worst pitcher on the staff, I'm not too worried. It's when he's one of the top pitchers on the staff that we have problems.