Riske Released

[logan82]

I wonder if they didn't option Gomez down because he was already claimed on waivers at the beginning of the month and pulled back. I think he has enough service time now he needs to be placed on waivers to be optioned down and the second time the waivers are irrevocable.

That's right. It is more than 3 years since Gomez first appeared in the majors.

[RockCoCougars]

Probably the #4 worst free agent acquisition from another team in franchise history behind Suppan, Hammonds, and Stubbs. It's a tossup between that and the Gagne deal. Since Gagne was only for one year, this one gets the nod. The 'they forced me to learn a curve ball' excuse does nothing for me either, because the guy was flat out brutal outside of his first dozen or so appearances. How this guy got three years and a buyout for a fourth makes me question Melvin quite a bit. Riske never had great stats, nor the stuff to support giving him that kind of deal.

[rluzinski]

Signing almost any reliever to a 3 year deal is silly. Most pitcher are relievers simply because they aren't good enough to start. Riskie was never anything special.

[HiAndTight]

RockCoCougars]Probably the #4 worst free agent acquisition from another team in franchise history behind Suppan, Hammonds, and Stubbs. It's a tossup between that and the Gagne deal. Since Gagne was only for one year, this one gets the nod. The 'they forced me to learn a curve ball' excuse does nothing for me either, because the guy was flat out brutal outside of his first dozen or so appearances. How this guy got three years and a buyout for a fourth makes me question Melvin quite a bit. Riske never had great stats, nor the stuff to support giving him that kind of deal.

The 5 years prior to coming to Milwaukee he had a 3.03 ERA, and a 1.17 Whip.

 

He didn't have great stuff, but he had pretty damn good numbers for a guy throwing 70 innings a year in the AL. This is a deal that looks bad with the benefit of hindsight, but looked find at the time.

[Crash2303]

To Funketown and all the others who are criticizing Melvin for the Riske signing. Yeah, we can all say that in hindsight it was a bad deal, but i agree with Hate Those Rodents that at the time all indicators showed that it was a solid pick-up. After 2007, the one glaring weakness of the ballclub was in our bullpen. We finished 2 games out and knew we were a couple pieces from the play-offs. That was the year Turbo blew up and we had to go out and acquire Cordero to save us. To say we should rely on our young, cheap AAA guys was exactly what they had been doing- and it was not working out. we didn't have studs like Axford and Braddock. Our young, cheap AAA relievers were guys like Matt Wise, Chris Spurling, Villanueva, Acquino and McClung. We needed someone consistent and reliable in the bullpen and Melvin was willing to spend a little to get him. All signs did point to Riske being a safe bet (names have a certain irony sometimes). And compared to the market at that time, especially for relievers, i never thought his contract seemed unreasonable. just too bad he had those injuries. hope he's able to revive himself somewhere.

[RockCoCougars]

It didn't take hindsight to know that this was a questionable acquisition. Riske was an older journeyman middle reliever with questionable stuff coming off a career season (sounds just like Suppan except for the middle reliever part). Melvin blundered by giving him a three year deal (with a buyout for a fourth... what was he thinking- does he think that every contract needs to include a buyout). Many, including myself hated the deal at the time. I bumped the original post of the signing and would do so again, but it was locked by the moderator. All that aside, I hope the Brewers have learned their lesson on signing middle relievers to multi-year deals. As we have seen with the Brewers time and time again over the years, success as a reliever is generally fleeting, here today and gone tomorrow.

[Thurston Fluff]

As we have seen with the Brewers time and time again over the years, success as a reliever is generally fleeting, here today and gone tomorrow.

 

That's a good general assumption except Riske wasn't one of those. He had 8 full season's in the majors prior to coming to the Brewers. All but one of which was very solid. Given the fleeting nature of most relievers I thought it was a good idea to have at least one solid, reliable, you know what you're gonna get out of him, type. It's fine to criticize the move because you don't think any reliever is worth it but to use that particular bit of reasoning doesn't fit what Riske was.

[Never Outhustled]

Signing past their prime FA middle relievers to multi-year contracts because you have a weak bullpen is like buying scratch-off tickets if your short on the rent. Its going to cause more harm than good. Can someone name some good middle relief signings? Are there any?

[Diskono]

Signing past their prime FA middle relievers to multi-year contracts because you have a weak bullpen is like buying scratch-off tickets if your short on the rent. Its going to cause more harm than good. Can someone name some good middle relief signings? Are there any?

They're all on other teams :p

 

I still don't think it was that bad of a signing. He had a career 3.40 ERA and 1.265 WHIP before signing. That's pretty good, and not far off from the results Axford is getting this year. He should have been good for us too, but he got hurt instead. That sucks, but what can you do?

[TooLiveBrew]

Off the top of my head, Hideki Okajima for the span of 2007-2009 for the Red Sox. He's stunk this season, though. Not sure how much of that has been due to his injury woes (hamstring, calf).

[monty57]

He should have been good for us too, but he got hurt instead. That sucks, but what can you do?

 

That'san important point. Riske was a good middle reliever who got hurt as soon as he became a Brewer. He tried to pitch through it for a while, leading to really bad numbers in his first season, then he went under the knife.

 

The argument against the signing seems more like a general rule for all middle relievers, and not specifically against Riske. It seems to be more of a "we shouldn't have signed Riske because he is a middle reliever, and you should never sign a middle reliever to a three-year deal." I guess that's fine, but if that is your strategy, make sure you don't complain when a scrapheap pickup pitches poorly. No complaints that "we need someone other than Joe Winklesas or we'll never be a playoff team." We needed Riske because our scrapheap pickups and pitching wasteland in the minors weren't doing a good enough job.

 

When we signed Riske, we had a lineup full of pre-arby guys that were giving us strong hopes for the playoffs, but we needed bullpen help. The extra revenue streams and sold out stadiums were allowing for higher payrolls while still maintaining a profit. Sure, we could've went out and found the next Axford, but it also could've been the next Winklesas. I've talked about weighing risk before, but Melvin figured that Riske was a pretty safe bet to be a solid bullpen arm that would help us make the playoffs. He was signed for what, $13MM over three years? At the time, that's what a decent SP made in one year, so if you are looking at $/inning, you should probably get your 180 or so innings over those three years.

 

He got hurt. If you believe what he says, it's at least partially the Brewers' fault he got hurt. If he hadn't gotten hurt, and had pitched well for three years, would the same people who are saying "never sign a reliever" still be complaining about the contract?

[JohnBriggs12]

It didn't take hindsight to know that this was a questionable acquisition. Riske was an older journeyman middle reliever with questionable stuff coming off a career season (sounds just like Suppan except for the middle reliever part). Melvin blundered by giving him a three year deal (with a buyout for a fourth... what was he thinking- does he think that every contract needs to include a buyout). Many, including myself hated the deal at the time. I bumped the original post of the signing and would do so again, but it was locked by the moderator. All that aside, I hope the Brewers have learned their lesson on signing middle relievers to multi-year deals. As we have seen with the Brewers time and time again over the years, success as a reliever is generally fleeting, here today and gone tomorrow.

You're wrong on the "questionable stuff" part. Riske threw in the mid 90's for much of his career. Unfortunately, none of that was time spent as a Brewers.

[TooLiveBrew]

Riske's highest avg. fastball velocity for any season was 90.5 mph, back in 2003 (Link). Maybe he touched something like 93 occasionally, but he certainly wasn't operating in the mid 90s.

[DonMoney4Mgr]

Riske was my favorite Brewer strictly because I really thought the signing was gonna be a good one.

 

I gotta believe, other than his family, you stand alone as having him as your favorite Brewer at any point while he was here.

[RockCoCougars]

What I don't get is they give Riske that kind of money and then acquire Torres and Gagne within a week. Both of those guys had to be on the radar when Riske was signed (I know Torres threatened retirement, but that was after the trade). They also had McClung and Turnbow on the roster at the time as well. That's why I don't buy the whole 'They had nothing in the bullpen, so Riske was needed' arguement. How many right-handed relief pitchers does one team need?

 

In my view, this was another case of Melvin jumping the gun and signing a guy before the market was set. Riske never had good stuff, he had bounced around from team to team, but had pitched well the previous few seasons mostly because of the fact that he had decent to good control. He was never really a strikeout pitcher. I'm willing to give Melvin a pass on Gagne, mostly because it was a one year deal- but also because Gagne had a big time track record and had shown signs of bouncing back in 2007 before he went to Boston. Bottom line, Melvin panicked when Cordero bailed, and made a mistake with Riske. I find it kind of ironic and telling that the least notable (by far) acquisition of the three (Torres) ended up saving the season for the Brewers in 2008.

[monty57]

How many right-handed relief pitchers does one team need?

 

Assuming one or two lefties in the pen, with a 12 man rotation, they need 5 or 6. With a 13 man rotation they need 6 or 7.

 

McClung, Turnbow, Torres, Gagne, Riske sounds about right in line with a 12-man rotation, assuming they had two lefties.

 

Again, if they could have produced anything from their farm, they wouldn't have needed to sign & trade for so many players. Thankfully, they learned from their mistake and it was around this time that they started drafting lots and lots of pitchers every year, so we now have quite a few arms coming up through the system.

[HiAndTight]

Signing past their prime FA middle relievers to multi-year contracts because you have a weak bullpen is like buying scratch-off tickets if your short on the rent. Its going to cause more harm than good. Can someone name some good middle relief signings? Are there any?

And had we had the benefit of knowing his prime was past at the time of the signing, you'd have been absolutely correct.

 

But he was coming off of arguably his best career the year before, so that kinda blows that theory out. And what are you asking in your last sentence? Are you asking us to name one, or are you asking someone to name any ever? I can't imagine it's the later.

 

Not to mention, Riske wasn't signed to be a "Middle Reliever", he was signed to be a SU guy, and rightfully so based on his past 5 years(prior to signing).

[Never Outhustled]

Signing past their prime FA middle relievers to multi-year contracts because you have a weak bullpen is like buying scratch-off tickets if your short on the rent. Its going to cause more harm than good. Can someone name some good middle relief signings? Are there any?

And had we had the benefit of knowing his prime was past at the time of the signing, you'd have been absolutely correct.

 

But he was coming off of arguably his best career the year before, so that kinda blows that theory out.

He was 31 years old when Melvin signed him. How could you possibly believe he would be in his prime for the 3 years we signed him for? What a player did at age 27 or 28 is rather irrelevent to their production at age 32 or 33.