Gwynn or Gomez

[Crash2303]

Would you rather have Tony Gwynn, Jr or Carlos Gomez?

[Never Outhustled]

Can I choose option 3, an open spot on the 40 man roster?

[Sage]

Gwynn, Jr, only because he's shown that he can hit over .240 and get on base above a .300 clip.

[thablingster]

Gomez, because he has a higher ceiling. Gomez has more physical tools than Gwynn, it is just a matter of whether he'll learn to harness them.

 

Gwynn has pretty much figured out the type of player he is and will be that guy for better or for worse, as to where Gomez believes he can be that dual threat power/speed guy like a Carlos Beltran when that isn't the type of offensive game he should be gearing himself for. If Gomez decided he was going to be the type of hitter Gwynn is (slap hitter, using his speed to his advantage, etc.) in my opinion he would easily dust any statistics Gwynn could put up.

[dadofandrew]

They have nearly exact OPS's, and both are very good defenders. Gomez is 3 years younger and has a better arm, and seems faster. Carlos, easy.

[ELCABALLO45]

Carlos Gomez

[nate82]

Gomez is definitely the better player even with him not living up to all the tools he has.

[Ennder]

If I had to start one of them full time next year I'd go with Gwynn, he has at least shown some growth over the past couple years even if this years growth is hidden because of a low BABIP. Gomez has pretty much stagnated since he came up and really should be sent down to AAA so he can play every day.

[davego]

Love the one your with; Gomez.

[brewers4eric]

Gwynn's numbers in San Diego are about what I would have expected from him in a reserve role in Milwaukee. Gomez has more physical tools and potential, but my hair is gray already and I don't think I have the patience to watch him develop an improved approach at the plate on the major league roster. At this point, if I was a manager I would only use Gomez as a defensive replacement or as a Mel Stocker type designated base stealer. If he needs consistent playing time, he can find it at Nashville.

I would probably opt for the open roster spot. In the next couple of months, we'll find out if Dickerson fits the profile of a reserve outfielder.

[JoeHova]

I'd also go with the open roster spot.

[CheezWizHed]

Gomez. Because to acquire TGJ would require some trade which would add needless debate on this forum about his worth and if we gave up too much, etc... Hows that for an angle you didn't expect? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

Cain is our CF, so Gomez can either be a backup or a AAA CF. So I don't worry too much about either one.

[DHonks]

I'd want Gwynn easily as the 25th man, since he can walk.

 

To be honest, I'd love to have both, with both playing EACH DAY....Gwynn in AAA, Gomez in AA

[HiAndTight]

Gomez, because he has a higher ceiling. Gomez has more physical tools than Gwynn, it is just a matter of whether he'll learn to harness them.

 

Gwynn has pretty much figured out the type of player he is and will be that guy for better or for worse, as to where Gomez believes he can be that dual threat power/speed guy like a Carlos Beltran when that isn't the type of offensive game he should be gearing himself for. If Gomez decided he was going to be the type of hitter Gwynn is (slap hitter, using his speed to his advantage, etc.) in my opinion he would easily dust any statistics Gwynn could put up.

The problem is, it has to be difficult to convince Gomez to forgo the power aspect of that dynamic when he's 6'4 220 pounds and ripped. He's got every bit the physical tools that Beltran had, but without the ability to take pitches and draw walks, it's exceedingly difficult to get much out of them. If you're going to go after everything, you'd better at least try and change your approach and try to make more consistent contact so that you can try and carry a higher BABIP.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but starting next year he would have to accept a demotion to AAA, and clear waivers(provided we offer arbitration and bring him back on anything other than a minor league deal). As such, I don't think we're going to see him playing in Nashville anytime soon. Which is a shame as I think that's the only way he can become the type of player his tools suggest.

[TooLiveBrew]

If I had to start one of them full time next year I'd go with Gwynn, he has at least shown some growth over the past couple years even if this years growth is hidden because of a low BABIP. Gomez has pretty much stagnated since he came up and really should be sent down to AAA so he can play every day.

Iirc you were posting that Gomez had some hidden growth last season, too. Can't remember why you cited that it was hidden then... LD% maybe?

[Ennder]

If I had to start one of them full time next year I'd go with Gwynn, he has at least shown some growth over the past couple years even if this years growth is hidden because of a low BABIP. Gomez has pretty much stagnated since he came up and really should be sent down to AAA so he can play every day.

Iirc you were posting that Gomez had some hidden growth last season, too. Can't remember why you cited that it was hidden then... LD% maybe?

 

Improved BB%, improved K%, improved pitch recognition. There were certainly reasons to hope he was improving as a hitter even if it wasn't showing up in his results yet. It is hard to know how much of it is real with only one partial year of data though. Where gomez has really struggled this year is in infield hits, he used to be one of the best in the league at getting IFH and this year he has been about average with it. Don't know if it is bad luck this year or he is losing speed or what.

 

With Gwynn it is very different, this isn't hope of improving, he has actually improved by quite a bit the past couple of years. This year you just aren't seeing it because of a lot of bad luck in BABIP. Gwynn had a .350 OBP last year and his BB rate has increased again this year as has his ISO. The difference is a .245 BABIP compared to a career .291. Gwynn's is also a 2 year trend now. Gwynn is nothing special at all but he seems capable of holding close to a .350 OBP in the long term at least.

[logan82]

If I had to start one of them full time next year I'd go with Gwynn, he has at least shown some growth over the past couple years even if this years growth is hidden because of a low BABIP. Gomez has pretty much stagnated since he came up and really should be sent down to AAA so he can play every day.

Iirc you were posting that Gomez had some hidden growth last season, too. Can't remember why you cited that it was hidden then... LD% maybe?

Ennder was pretty high on Gomez last offseason. I remember something about showing signs of having better plate discipline.

[Ennder]

Ennder was pretty high on Gomez last offseason. I remember something about showing signs of having better plate discipline.

 

Woah there, don't go so far as to say I was high on Gomez. I said he might not be as terrible as people think and there were reasons to think he could be growing as a player. I had extremely low expectations for him still and was one of the few people who thought signing Edmonds was a good idea. Here is one of my posts about him...

 

I don't think it is fair to evaluate Gomez just on what he has done at the major league level so far without considering his age. His BB/K both improved last year as did his LD%. There are certainly positive indicators in his stats to suggest he is getting better.

 

His out of zone swing % dropped from 37% in 2008 to 30% last year as well which clearly indicates better pitch recognition. This is a player who at least appears to be improving even if it isn't apparent from last years slash stats.

 

It is really going to come down to what they spend the money they saved on. If they pick up like Lackey or something then I'm happy about it. If we pick up Washburn and Davis then I think the team got worse.

 

We picked up Davis so I think the team got worse~.

[logan82]

Ennder was pretty high on Gomez last offseason. I remember something about showing signs of having better plate discipline.

 

Woah there, don't go so far as to say I was high on Gomez. I said he might not be as terrible as people think and there were reasons to think he could be growing as a player. I had extremely low expectations for him still and was one of the few people who thought signing Edmonds was a good idea. Here is one of my posts about him...

I guess I should have said Ennder was pretty high on Gomez compared to everybody else.

[jhart05]

Gomez.

 

He has the far superior throwing arm. And it's not even close.

 

In all other aspects of the game they are probably pretty close.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Gomez might have more potential, but Gwynn comes closer to maximizing what he has. Gwynn can take a walk, and if he hits even .250, he'll at least OBP .335 or so.

 

Gomez is faster, and is a superior defender. He also has a better arm, but it's so inaccurate (he just uncorks every throw, whether or not he has to) that having a stronger arm, at least in my opinion, doesn't really matter much.

 

Gwynn recognizes his shortcomings, and does what he can with his physical tools.

 

If Gwynn could put up numbers similar to last year (.270 BA with a .350 OBP) that alone makes him vastly more valuable than Gomez, who's never even touched .300.

 

I realize Gomez has more potential, but in my opinion, the chance of him ever reaching his true ability is less than 10%.

 

I'd rather have Gwynn on the roster, in a reserve role.

[endaround]

Gomez does need to pass revocable waivers however he can't refuse an assignment to AAA as far as I understand it.

[danzig6767]

Neither guy belongs in the major leagues

[logan82]

Service-time landmarks

* 3 years

o A player with at least 3 years of Major League service is eligible for arbitration. (Eligibility for arbitration also is extended to players just shy of 3 full years of service. See Super Two.)

o In addition, a 3-year player may not be removed from the 40-man roster without his permission. The player may choose to be released immediately or at the end of the season.

 

* 5 years

o A player with at least 5 years of Major League service may not be demoted to the minor leagues on optional assignment without his consent. A 5-year player who refuses an optional assignment to the minors must be offered his release.

o A player with 5 years of service who has been traded in the middle of a multi-year contract may, during the off-season, require his new team to either trade him or let him become a free agent. If the player is eventually traded, he's not eligible to demand a trade again under the current contract and loses free agency rights for 3 years. However, the 2007-11 CBA eliminated this right for players signing multi-year contracts under the new CBA. Players signed to multi-year deals before the effective date of the 2007-11 CBA retain the right to demand a trade if traded during the life of their current contracts.

[1992casey]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but starting next year he would have to accept a

demotion to AAA, and clear waivers(provided we offer arbitration and

bring him back on anything other than a minor league deal).

 

As Logan's message directly above indicates, a player has to have five years of service to refuse an optional assignment. After three years of service, I believe he has to clear revocable waivers to be optioned.