NBA draft/Bucks-Yi discussion

[dpapo]

I'm not sure just how great of a defender Harris is, when Dallas lost to Golden State, Baron Davis averages 25 points per game on 54% shooting.

Anyway, the rumor doesn't appear to be vaild. This is from the Dallas Morning News.

 

"We're just going to draft," president of basketball operations Donnie Nelson said. "Crazy things happen, and there are some contingent things out there. But that likelihood is extremely low."

 

Not that there weren't juicy pieces of speculation floating around the country Wednesday involving the Mavericks. An Eastern Conference insider said he'd heard the Mavericks were entertaining an offer to get the No. 6 pick from Milwaukee for Devin Harris, a deal that might have included other players.

 

While that proposal might make sense because Harris grew up in Milwaukee and the Bucks need a point guard, it wasn't valid.

 

Rather, the Mavericks are taking a cautious approach to the draft. They have brought in more than 25 players over the last 10 days, and virtually all are projected to go late in the first round or in the second round.

 

That doesn't mean the Mavericks won't move up into the top half of the first round. It just doesn't seem likely."

 

 

www.dallasnews.com/shared...52aff.html

[molitor fan]

I could be wrong but I dont think I am

 

 

Personally, I think you are correct...Redd has regressed as a player in the last two years from a total player perspective. Redd gets myopic in crunch time. He is far from a "franchise" player, in my view, and i have been a huge supporter of his for the last 7 years.

 

In this draft, I view Horford as a great fit for the Bucks, and wish we could somehow get up to that 3 spot to get him. Conley would be a decent choice, but I think a trade in which picks are switched around and we get Monta Ellis from the Warriors would be my first choice if Horford and Conley are out of the question and Yi is on the board at 6.

[qrk10000]

Aracko, I think you are right that Sheets is not a good comparison to Redd, but I do think Fielder is. Money should have very little to do with how good a player it is and is one of my number one gripes with today's sports fans. Just because a player makes x amount of money, fans assume this player is a superstar (or in Fielder's case, is not). Remember, the Bucks are the ones that paid Redd his salary just like they were the ones that made Tim Thomas a rich man. Would you have these same feelings if Redd had signed a 5-year/$55 million deal instead?

 

Maybe a better comparison would be Tony Gwynn, Sr. He was one of the better hitters of all time in baseball but his team posted a sub-.500 record while he was there and never won a World Series. Does that, by your definition, make him any less a superstar? There are probably many other players that fall under this same scenario.

 

I am certainly not Redd's #1 fan and am aware of his shortcomings: below-average defense, doesn't pass the ball enough. However, I think that Terry Stots should share some of the blame for the latter because most of his gameplans involved giving the ball to Redd and asking him to make something happen. Hopefully Coach K will be a little more creative. I don't think, Molitor Fan, that his Terry Stots' tenure with the Bucks coinciding with Redd regressing as a total player is a coincidence at all.

[BraunsBoyfriend]

With all that talk about Devin Harris for the #6, I agree I'd rather go for Monte Ellis, since Golden State really wants Yi.

 

However, it would take more than that for me. It would start with Monte Ellis.

[Gobias Industries]

I'm in the Mike Redd is not a "max-contract player" camp. Great scorer, but does absolutely NOTHING else even close to average. Everyone knows his defense is bad, but thats an understatement. He can make Ray Allen look like Pippen in his prime. I do like that he did add an "attacking the rim" mode to his arsenal though. Makes him much less one-dimensional.

 

Trading the 6th for the 12th and 21st would be my worse case scenario. Two decent prospects instead of the chance to get one premier one at #6.

 

Its quite a bit different from the NFL Value chart. In the NFL draft, there is a very small difference from the middle of the first round to the end of the second. After the lottery, its a pretty steep decline in talent.

[brettac1]

I would say in this draft that there is a pretty steep drop-off after the second pick.

 

I'd be for spreading the risk out over two players rather than just one. There's definitely not a sure-fire star at 6, all of them have questions.

[qrk10000]

Braun, if Golden State offered Ellis as part of package for the #6, what else would it take to get it done?

 

Can Ellis be an NBA starting point guard? And, in the same respect, could Devin Harris?

[Crew2323]

I heard a report on WSSP this afternoon that there is a rumor of the Bucks trading #6 and Bobby Simmons to Phoenix for Shawn Marion. It's only a rumor and it came from Gery Woelfel (it's also in this link . Whether it happens is another story, but more interesting rumors to talk about.

[patrickgpe]

id do that trade for the matrix.

[endaround]

The idea that Redd isn't a max value player is laughable. Yes he isn't as good as Duncan. But so what? The NBA salary cap makes sure that great players don't get their value.

[aracko]

Id be so happy to land Marion.

 

Endaround - care to explain? Its your opinion, so whatever you tihnk is fine, but I dont think it makes much sense. To me it almost sounds like your talking about paying a manager of Mcdonalds the same as you pay a manager of Premier Fine Dining establishment.

[BraunsBoyfriend]

I'm not sure what else it would take form Golden State to trade the draft rights to Yi. Monte Ellis had a good year last year and it was only his second year. And you do have to assume some risk when trading a draft pick sometimes. But I feel like the ceiling on Yi is perceived to be much higher than that of Ellis. Same with Harris.

 

As for Woeful's rumor of Bobby Simmons and the 6th for Matrix: Yes, I'd do that in a second. In fact, I'd do it so fast I'm convinced Phoenix would never consider it.

 

If we make that trade then I'm a very happy boy.

 

As for the comment about the NBA salary cap and how it pertains to star players, he's right: Players like Tim Duncan are severely underpaid. The Super Star Duncan, LeBron, etc types should be paid a whole lot more. But they can't be because of limits.

[aracko]

isnt monte ellis out of HS? If so he cant be older than anyone in this draft.

[endaround]

The NBA doesn't work like that. Tim Duncan is worth like $25-30 million on a free market. But he doesn't face that. His salary is capped at $14 million (or whatever). Redd would make $18 million in a free market but his salary is capped at $14 million. Yes Duncan is the better value but that doesn't mean Redd isn't worth his salary.

[BraunsBoyfriend]

Oddly, Ellis was like 20 when he was drafted out of high school. From John Hollinger:

 

"One other point also must be made that will temper the Warriors' enthusiasm: Apparently his high school believed in redshirting, because Ellis was 20 when last season tipped off even though he skipped college and went straight to the pros. Somehow he's two years old older than another prep-to-pro in his draft class, Andrew Bynum, and has about 18 months on most of the others. He's only four months younger than Darko Milicic, believe it or not. "

 

But the fact he's so young and showed promise last year is definitly note worthy. He's not a 4 year college player who looked good his second year, at age 24 or something.

[BraunsBoyfriend]

If you're interested at all in the NBA then you should check out 82games.com

 

Great statistical analysis and they have a metric called "Fair Pay". This stat bases what a player should make per their production. Redd is around 18 million a year.

 

It helps you decide if a player is really overpaid and yes, plenty are.

 

*EDIT* At least there used to be....maybe I'm thinking of another site or book (I don't think Wages of Wins had this stat...) that talked about this....I swear I thought it was 82games.com that made up this stat.

 

Anyways, I recall seeing it and Redd's money for production numbers were very good.

[Mr QL]

What ever happens tonight, I know I will be pissed. It's going to be Jeff Green, just to spite me. I am so sure of it.

[olliegjw]

I guess the question in this Redd debate is whether he can lead a team to a championship. My answer would be a definite no. He can be a complimentary piece, like alongside Lebron, but he will never be the focal point of a serious contender.

 

I was upset when the Bucks offered him the max contract. However, with the state of the Bucks and the salary cap system in the NBA, I now think it was a good move. They still need an elite player to move Redd down to second fiddle.

 

Is that elite player in the draft? The one I see with the best shot is Brandon Wright (of the guys that may be available at 6). If they get Wright, they would definitely need a new point guard (Billups?), because Bogut and Wright would never see the ball with Williams and Redd on the team.

[brettac1]

Wright is allegedly falling some, so they might be able to get him if they move down a few spots.

[Mr QL]

Katz said we're taking Yi if he's there. Plz let that be true. Anybody but Jeff Green.

[molitor fan]

I will be in the draft chat tonight in case people would like to chat about the draft, which I enjoy, despite the banality of Stephen A Smith....I was actually at the draft in which the Bucks got the Big Dog, and bore witness to his hideous suit that year....i was so giddy over the Vashon Lenard 2nd round pick....

[sbrylski]

Again, I'm not a big NBA fan, but the Sonics would be getting a great deal if the Allen for #5, West, and Wally trade goes through.

 

Durant and Yi? Good draft.

[Never Outhustled]

End is right Redd is easily worth his contract.The cap is large enough to have numerous max contracts. The Bucks could afford 2 or 3 more Redds if they werent stuck with guys like Simmons and Gadzuric. Actually, they have room even with those guys.

 

As for the draft, Katz says Yi is the guy. I like it. Nobody knows Yi better than us, as Larry Harris's dad coached him. If Yao can be this good, Yi can be an impact guy too.This team just needs talent, if the parts dont fit together, make moves down the road.

[sbrylski]

Here's my mock:

 

1. POR - Oden

2. SEA - Durant

3. ATL - Horford

4. MEM - Conley

5. SEA (from BOS) - Yi

6. MIL - Green

 

I don't want Green, so I won't be suprised when we take him. Much rather have Brewer. Also, Garnett won't be traded.

[Oldcity]

Sounding like it will be Yi. I'll be interested to see how that goes, because apparently the entire nation of China is against the Bucks.