Brewers mulling Gomez options -- Latest: Activated from DL

[PrinceEatMeat]

.260 isn't bad for a power hitter who would give us 30+ HR and 100+ RBI. Gomez obviously isn't in that category.

[logan82]

.260 sucks even if you are a power hitter unless you are walking quite a bit.

[hawing]

I swear, he had almost exactly the same quote earlier this year. .260 and everything.

I can't verify it offhand, but I think you are right. I wonder who gave him that idea.

[MNBrew]

I think Sanchez was one of the most overrated Brewers 'young studs' ever. All he could do is steal bases. Gomez is a much better player even now- especially on defense, but if he doesn't get his head screwed on straight, he will be flaming out very shortly.

Au contraire! Sanchez hit .289 w/ a .343 OBP in '02. In '03 before we finally rid ourselves of him, he was hitting .282 w/ a .316 OBP.

 

It wasn't just his speed. The guy could hit well, too, although I would NEVER put him in the "young studs" category -- and I don't think he was EVER truly looked on that way, really. Sanchez was a Dean Taylor-mined nugget, claimed off waivers from Tampa. I believe it was his knuckleheaded approach at the plate (too many fly balls, not enough walks, not dedicating himself to take an approach that would really help optimize his blazing speed) and careless approach in the OF that ultimately outweighed his basically good bat & hardly-stoppable wheels -- as well as his resistance to coaching and flippant attitude about it -- enough to ensure much cheering when he was finally shipped out of town for the unforgettable Chad Petty & Noochie Varner (gotta love that name!).

[MNBrew]

I swear, he had almost exactly the same quote earlier this year. .260 and everything.

I can't verify it offhand, but I think you are right. I wonder who gave him that idea.

It's this inexplicable way ideas develop differently in Gomez's head than most anyone else's -- great speed aside -- that really makes Gomez a potential scary parallel to Alex Sanchez. It's almost like he's got his own view of the (baseball) world and has convinced himself that everyone else's thinking must be what's wrong since of course he's right.

 

I don't think there's much doubt that Gomez's oozing talent COULD make him one of the most complete & unstoppable players of his generation. HOWEVER, talent only gets you in the door (as it's done for Gomez). How far you get once you're in is largely up to you. And that's where Gomez really seems to have blown it thus far.

 

Gomez's situation/performance reminds me of the saying about a fool being the one who continues doing things the same way and expects a different outcome.

[HiAndTight]

Well, .260 wouldn't be a bad year if he could manage a BB% higher than 6%.

 

If he could walked 10% of the time, .260 would be alright for him given his defense. However if he could walk 10% of the time I think most would agree he'd likely start getting more pitches to hit, start hitting for more power and his entire game may well come around.

 

The problem is it's this general attitude that leads most to also believe that he just isn't going to figure it out here. He's going to have to be closer to being out of the game in my opinion, having to actually worry about making a team, or going into ST'ing with only a minor league contract before he actually slows the hell down and starts taking some pitchers.

 

If we could play him in AAA next year and force him to take pitches, he may well be alright and develop for us, but I see almost no chance he's accept a demotion and less chance he's going to figure it out at this level.

 

Too bad. He's just got amazing pure tools. I always thought Weeks had the most talent of anyone on the Brewers...until Gomez came there. But the comments about baseball being the sport in which pure athletic ability means the least.

[Invader3K]

Well, he walked five times in his AAA stint, so maybe he is starting to come around. I won't be holding my breath, though.

[madrx]

As an aside, how much do you think Gomez will make in arbitration next year? This year he's making $1.15 million on his first arby year. Is it even worth keeping him at possibly $2 million per year if he is stuck in AAA trying to figure things out. I understand the talent is still intriguing, but wonder if it's worth that much money to see if he figures it out if he only has another year or two after that under team control.

[monty57]

I'm all for playing him in AAA next year. However, I believe he'd still need to be offered arby after the season, meaning he'd still make over $1MM whether he was in Milwaukee or Nashvillle. Am I right on this?

[Never Outhustled]

Gomez would have a split contract, and wouldn't earn his major league salary if he wasn't on the major league team.

 

I think Gomez is too dumb to ever have the light go on. I'd include him in an offseason trade, while he still has an ounce of trade value. If he goes down to AAA and puts up a sub 700 OPS like he has this year, he'll be forgotten.

[Invader3K]

I think Gomez is too dumb to ever have the light go on.

 

Kind of harsh, X.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I think Gomez is too dumb to ever have the light go on.

 

Kind of harsh, X.

it might be harsh, but in a baseball sense, it might be true. The "If I hit .260 that's not a bad year" comment really points out that Gomez really doesn't have a clue about what offensive value really is. His OBP would STILL be awful, and he doesn't slug enough to make an ounce of difference. A .300 OBP with a .400 SLG is crap, and that's what I'd project him at if he hit .260. Which he won't.

[Invader3K]

I just think calling out the intelligence of someone with no basis is pretty tacky.

 

Gomez is still young. Maybe he won't ever put it together, maybe it will. I agree that an extended stint in AAA is pretty warranted. But continually bashing the guy over and over in multiple threads doesn't really contribute to the discussion.

[Ennder]

Gomez is a career .242 hitter and his career best is .258, of course hitting .260 sounds good to him. It would be showing growth.

[kramnoj]

A .300 OBP with a .400 SLG is crap

 

Gomez didn't even have a .400 SLG in his best season, but if his glove is good enough, he is still a valuable player for a low price.

 

He's not that far off from the offense he provided in his best season, the problem is that his defense overall hasn't been good enough to justify the weak offense.

[logan82]

A .300 OBP with a .400 SLG is crap

 

Gomez didn't even have a .400 SLG in his best season, but if his glove is good enough, he is still a valuable player for a low price.

 

He's not that far off from the offense he provided in his best season, the problem is that his defense overall hasn't been good enough to justify the weak offense.

Nobody could possibly play defense well enough to justify the offense Gomez has put up.

[kramnoj]

Nobody could possibly play defense well enough to justify the offense Gomez has put up.

 

This is completely incorrect. Gomez was a 2 WAR player in 2008 with just good, not great defense.

[logan82]

Nobody could possibly play defense well enough to justify the offense Gomez has put up.

 

This is completely incorrect. Gomez was a 2 WAR player in 2008 with just good, not great defense.

Gomez hasn't had enough time in CF to have UZR show how well he has actually played.

[kramnoj]

Gomez hasn't had enough time in CF to have UZR show how well he has actually played.

 

That's a tad bit of an exaggeration. With over two full seasons, we should have a decent idea. We know enough to believe that he has, in his career, been a good-very good CF.

 

But that's not what you said. You said that nobody could play defense well enough to justify his offense. A CF can hit that poorly and still be valuable with very good defense for the right price.

[logan82]

Gomez hasn't had enough time in CF to have UZR show how well he has actually played.

 

That's a tad bit of an exaggeration. With over two full seasons, we should have a decent idea. We know enough to believe that he has, in his career, been a good-very good CF.

 

But that's not what you said. You said that nobody could play defense well enough to justify his offense. A CF can hit that poorly and still be valuable with very good defense for the right price.

UZR has to be regressed halfway even after 3 years. A WAR based almost entirely on WAR is suspect at best. He is a terrible hitter and has no place in the majors in any capacity beyond a pinch runner defensive replacement at this point. Maybe as a starter on a rebuilding team but only based on his potential.

[kramnoj]

UZR has to be regressed halfway even after 3 years.

 

For projection purposes, sure. But I haven't been talking about projections in these posts you are quoting. I have talked about Gomez's past value, and I have talked about the theoretical value one can provide in a given season.

 

A WAR based almost entirely on WAR is suspect at best.

 

Not really. That is the value provided in that season. Milton Bradley can hit .321 in a season. He shouldn't be projected to hit .321, but he will provide value in a season when he does.

[ilovebeer]

put in down in Nahville and bring him up September 1. I hope he is not back next season.

[logan82]

Even if UZR is a good representation of what a player has contributed on defense, they may not get the chances to make a decent contribution on defense every single year. That is why we see many guys have a positive or negative contribution on defense from year to year. A guy making most of his value on defense and hitting like Gomez is going to be less useful than a guy hitting much better and only having average defense. At least at the plate you are going to get your chances to contribute.

[kramnoj]

#72 is an excellent post. It is very different from what had been posted previously.

 

For me, I would bring back Gomez and put him in AAA. Based on what I believe I know, he can spend the next two seasons in AAA without any problems. He has the tools to be a better player, but he needs to work to be a better contributor. Cain should be starting in CF regardless, and Dickerson looks like a good 4th OF. I would rather have Katin has a 5th OF and PH than have Cain, Dickerson and Gomez in the major leagues.

 

If Gomez puts in the work and improves, maybe he can be traded for some other value down the road. I think that could be worth a 40 man spot, but I haven't looked at that closely enough to be confident in that.

[jackalope02ca]

I don't ever see him developing into anything more than he already is. As such why send him to AAA. I'm fine with him on the team as the 4th or 5th outfielder but the only time he should enter the game is when we see Axford. He's a great defensive replacement when we are up by 3 or less. This team needs a player like this. Just don't let him into the game at any other time.