(And just who is...) The Greatest Baseball Player of All-Time?

[The Truth]

Theoretical question: you are forming an All-Star team of the greatest baseball players to ever live. Who do you pick? And more importantly, why?

 

If you are in a "draft" situation, picking second, and team #1 takes Willie Mays, who is your pick? Ruth? Ted Williams? Pujols? Ty Cobb Or maybe instead you pick a pitcher, in which case who?

 

Where does Ken Griffey, Jr rank in the conversation?

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

Lou Gehrig is #1

[jwaltz]

Don't forget to consider Honus Wagner. The guy was a fantastic hitter and history seems to remember him as a pretty fine defender at short too. Dude won 8 batting titles and lead the league in OPS 7 times and OPS+ 6 times.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Babe Ruth.

 

1B - Gehrig

2B - Hornsby

SS - Wagner

3B - Schmidt

LF - Williams

CF- Cobb

RF - Ruth

C - Bench

P - Walter Johnson

[jwaltz]

For the record my vote is the Great Bambino. Not only was Babe Ruth a monster at the plate but he was a fine pitcher too.

[The Truth]

Babe Ruth.

One of the big advantages with Ruth, if you completely buy into the notion that you are forming a "team", is that Ruth was an incredible pitcher, too. Theoretically he'd be a guy you could bring in to pitch a few innings in relief or even start occasionally

[RockCoCougars]

Ruth and it's not close. The guy would have been a Hall of Famer as a pitcher, and was outhomering whole teams for a while. In my view, the best hitter was Ted Williams and the best pitcher was Walter Johnson, keeping in mind I'm no where near old enough to have seen any of these guys play.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Ruth and it's not close. The guy would have been a Hall of Famer as a pitcher, and was outhomering whole teams for a while. In my view, the best hitter was Ted Williams and the best pitcher was Walter Johnson, keeping in mind I'm no where near old enough to have seen any of these guys play.

Don't have to have seen him play to know that a *207* OPS+ is flat out stupid.

 

I don't care that Ruth didn't play against everyone, he produced more than twice as many runs as the average offensive player in his era. Nobody else can come close to that claim.

[Fatter than Joey]

keeping in mind I'm no where near old enough to have seen any of these guys play.

 

None of us are old enough to have seen Ruth or Johnson play.

[BrewersSuperCollector]

keeping in mind I'm no where near old enough to have seen any of these guys play.

 

None of us are old enough to have seen Ruth or Johnson play.

 

Judging by JimH5 avatar I'm not so sure http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[berniebrewer4life]

Ruth is my first pick, no doubt at all. Everytime i look at his stats, my jaw drops. Next up i would pick the two gibsons Josh(seriously underrated catcher) and Bob.

[JimH5]

keeping in mind I'm no where near old enough to have seen any of these guys play.

 

None of us are old enough to have seen Ruth or Johnson play.

 

Judging by JimH5 avatar I'm not so sure http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

http://www.corbisimages.com/images/67/E998EE89-F5F6-48DA-A1AE-416E7EC187E3/VV9244.jpg

[logan82]

Well if you just want to go with career OPS+ I am not shocked but a little disappointed nobody brought up one of our own. Hank Aaron.

 

Rank	Player (age)	Adjusted OPS+	Bats
1.	Babe Ruth+	207	L
2.	Ted Williams+	190	L
3.	Barry Bonds	181	L
4.	Lou Gehrig+	179	L
5.	Rogers Hornsby+	175	R
6.	Mickey Mantle+	172	B
7.	Albert Pujols (30)	171	R
8.	Dan Brouthers+	170	L
	Shoeless Joe Jackson	170	L
10.	Ty Cobb+	168	L
11.	Jimmie Foxx+	163	R
12.	Pete Browning	162	R
	Mark McGwire	162	R
	Dave Orr	162	R
15.	Stan Musial+	159	L
16.	Hank Greenberg+	158	R
17.	Johnny Mize+	157	L
	Tris Speaker+	157	L
19.	Dick Allen	156	R
	Frank Thomas	156	R
21.	Hank Aaron+	155	R
	Joe DiMaggio+	155	R
	Willie Mays+	155	R
	Mel Ott+	155	L
	Manny Ramirez (38)	155	R

[ELCABALLO45]

My goodness Albert Pujols is a beast.

 

But my answer would be Babe Ruth and I don't think its really close.

[Baldkin]

Ruth, with Josh Gibson being a close 2nd behind the plate.

[davego]

I'll go contrary and vote for Ted Williams. The 3 years he missed for the war cost him 100 HR and 600 hits.

[Ennder]

I'll go with Honus Wagner only I'll make him retire when he turns 39. At that point in his career his OPS+ was something like 170 and he played very strong defense at SS and threw in 50+ SB a year.

[Tbadder]

I liked the Bill James analysis over the Honus Wagner/Babe Ruth question as to who is the greatest player of all time. In his first analysis Honus edges him out, but unsatisfied by the result he went a little deeper and Ruth emerged. I thought his case was compelling though I read the longish articles years ago and can't remember the salient reason for Ruth's final victory. I also wonder if the best player at each position makes the best team or is there another way to look at it? Would the best all team team be a set of skills when combined would make up the best team? For instance, I think Ted Williams is the best pure hitter all-time, but would I be better off with Ricky Hendersen in left and leading off considering I'd still have Ruth DHing (no way he's in the right with a -118 UZR the fat slob) and batting 4th? Would Collins or Morgan be better than Hornsby at second because they were superior all-around players and better able to take pitches (I'd put one of them in the 2 hole)? If we don't do this then do we just declare the top player at each position based solely on adjusted OPS+ like the list above, which raises the question why not just take the top players and fit them at a position with Hornsby the shortstop and Bonds at second, Brouthers behind the plate, Pujols at 3rd, etc. Anywho... my all time winningest team playing 162 games (not all-time best team):

 

LF Ricky Hendersen

CF Tris Speaker

RF Roberto Clemente

3B Mike Schmidt

SS Honus Wagner

2B Eddie Collins

1B Albert Pujols

C Josh Gibson

DH Babe Ruth

 

PH Mickey Mantle

Pine Riders: Johnny Bench, Ted Williams, Oscar Charleston, Ozzie Smith, Ted Ratcliffe

 

SP Walter Johnson

SP Steve Carlton

SP Lefty Grove

SP Cy Young

SP Grover Cleveland Alexander

 

RP Dennis Eckersley

RP Hoyt Wilhelm

RP Rollie Fingers

RP Satchel Paige

RP Mariano Rivera

 

This gives me twelve pitchers if you include Radcliffe and Ruth. Eck and Paige are my long relievers. I hear Hoyt is still pitching everyday in the Northern Industrial League. I think it would be hard to beat this team over the course of a 162 game schedule. It's flexible, powerful, dominant on the bases and defensively superior. I left off the steroids guys though the deepest well of my heart says that Gehrig replaces Pujols when the complete truth is known someday.

I feel weird mostly leaving Ty Cobb off the team. He'd be better than Henderson, but strictly speaking it's leftfield versus centerfield and I'm trying to limit myself by position to make the task a little harder. I want Speaker in all cases as I believe he is the greatest defensive player ever, but that's mostly based on ancedotal (sic) evidence.

[homer]

Glad people are including Josh Bell and Satchel Paige in this discussion.

[JohnBriggs12]

1. Ruth

 

2. Musial

 

3. Cobb

 

4. Mays

 

5. Williams

 

6. Aaron

 

7. Gehrig

 

8. Foxx

 

9. Wagner

 

10. Hornsby

 

I left out current era players. I also downgraded slightly those from racially segregated era.

[craigharmann]

If you asked ESPN, you'd probably get Jeter or ARod.

[The Truth]

If you asked ESPN, you'd probably get Jeter or ARod.

Well, theoretically A-Rod should get some consideration at 3B over Schmidt, though I personally would downgrade the steroid guys pretty considerably (in my "imaginary league" Barry Bonds has been banned)

 

I like the mention of Rickey Henderson. Players like Rickey and Ty Cobb could do serious damage on the basepaths hitting ahead of the likes of Ruth, Mays etc ... and I do think players from segregated eras can and should be *slightly* downgraded, though I do think Ruth would be a monster in any era, and would completely tear up 5th starters (as just an example)

 

A little suprised that Ken Griffey, Jr hasn't been mentioned much. OK, he's not the greatest of all-time, but I think of Griffey, Jr and Mickey Mantle as 2 guys you would really want on your team if you couldn't get Mays

 

I personally agree with some of the old-timers who say (stats be damned) that Willie Mays was indeed the greatest ever when you consider the complete game he brought to the table

 

And personally, I'd probably have to go with Brooks Robinson at 3B

 

 

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

Aaron, Henry

 

I may have Milwaukee blinders on, but I cannot be convinced otherwise. If he's not the greatest player, he may be the most underrated.

[thebruce44]

I'll go contrary and vote for Ted Williams. The 3 years he missed for the war cost him 100 HR and 600 hits.

 

While I love Ted Williams, he probably wasn't even the best player of his decade due to his defense. He even admitted such.

[JimH5]

I don't know if Griffey cracks my Top 10 outfielders. . .

I would go with Ruth, Mays, Williams, Aaron, Cobb, Musial, DiMaggio, Frank Robinson, and Mantle all ahead of Griffey.

That's 9 guys, then consider Rickey Henderson, Barry Bonds, Tris Speaker, Joe Jackson. . .

I might slip Griffey in with the group of Yaz, Al Kaline & Clemente.

And we'll never know about Oscar Charleston, Cristobal Torriente, Martin Dihigo. . .

Griffey was great, but there were lots of guys who were great.