Matt Garza.....

[HiAndTight]

I've been thinking about this one for a while. The Rays are supposedly looking to move either Shields or Garza. Shields has a much more desirable contract, but obviously he's not nearly as good as Garza.

 

The Rays have one helluva rotation, basically throwing 4 Gallardo's out there, all of which have 5-6 years of service time left, so they're about as loaded as a team can possibly be on the mound without spending half a billion dollars on pitchers. Price, Niemann, Davis, and Hellickson form just an incredible 1-4.

 

Which is why I think the Rays MIGHT be more inclined to move Garza rather than Shields as he gives them cost certainty, he's pretty dependable, and with such a great 1-4, Garza allows them to fill another hole.

 

 

My thoughts are a trade centered around Prince for Garza. Now with Prince having just one year left, this would be a pretty bold move on the side of the Rays, and with their payroll, I think they'd want another young hitter they can control for a long time. Not a Lawrie obviously, but someone who can project to be league average and cheap for the next 4-5 years.

 

So something like perhaps Prince+McGehee for maybe Garza and another pitcher. Obviously Matthew Moore would be the ideal choice of prospects, but that would require at the very least Gamel and likely Lawrie.

 

In liu of Moore, Nickolas Barnese would look to be a nice choice as well. He is going to have a lot of trouble cracking the Rays rotation anytime in the near future. Luckily for us(or not) he likely wouldn't have any such issues in Milwaukee if he pitches well. He's a guy who pitches to contact, good arm, walks very few(1.9/per 9) has decent K numbers(7.4 this year, 8.5 for his career). Not a great GO/FO ratio at 1.25, but solid enough.

 

I would hope that Melvin would inquire about what exactly it would take to get Moore with Garza and at least consider that. Perhaps again, Prince+Gamel(who I would absolutely hate to see go as I'm one of his biggest fans and believe he's going to be a helluva player) or maybe Prince+McGehee+ someone like a Kentrail Davis? I know the Rays have a need for Corner OF'ers with Crawford leaving, not much in Right at the moment, even with Jennings coming up.

 

 

Anyway, thoughts? I think Garza could fit the description of a #2 starter, which we obviously desperately need. Trade for him, offer him maybe 4 years at 30 million buying out the last three arby years, two option years at 13 million per with vesting options based upon innings pitched bring the entire value to potentially 6 years and 56 million? Something along those lines. Similar to Yovai's deal, except Garaza will be one year ahead of Yo if we were to trade for him in the off-season.

[RockCoCougars]

I like how you think. I've wanted Garza for the Brewers since he pitched in Beloit. Prince for Garza has crossed my mind several times as well. Tampa may be inclined to make such a move in the offseason.

[HiAndTight]

I like how you think. I've wanted Garza for the Brewers since he pitched in Beloit. Prince for Garza has crossed my mind several times as well. Tampa may be inclined to make such a move in the offseason.

Yeah, I think IF Tampa's ever going to make a move like this, when better than next season?

 

Prince is going into a contract year, they've got 4 incredible young pitchers coming up along with James Shields, Jake McGee, Matthew Moore, Nick Barnese, Alexander Colome and others. That's 4 MORE guys who have very good arms and all could/should be #3's at worst if they reach their ceiling.

They're also losing Pena this year and are going to have a huge hole in their lineup without replacing him.

Prince at DH and McGehee at 1st gives them some production that at the moment, they look to be lacking next year. We throw some money in there to make the Prince trade a little easier to swallow.

 

Of course I think extending this trade to include another young arm is where the Brewers are going to benefit the most, even if that isn't likely to be Matthew Moore.

[dadofandrew]

TB probably can't afford him. That's exactly what they want for Prince though.

[HiAndTight]

TB probably can't afford him. That's exactly what they want for Prince though.

To re-sign after this year or just for this season?

 

If it's a matter of not being able to afford Prince this season, I'd definitely be willing to pay them 10 million for his contract if they were willing to give up Garza+Moore for Prince+McGehee and a filler. McGehee may have some value to them as I don't believe they've got any real viable 1B option coming up and he could play over there.

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

As a huge Garza fan (though Delmon is finally panning out for the Twins), I would be all over this. I absolutely love what Yovani brings to the table, but I think Garza is actually BETTER than Yo. This would give us a legit 1-2 punch for 5-6 years as noted above. In trading Casey and Prince, we leave ourselves some holes. I'd assume in that scenario that Gamel takes over 3B, Hart slides to 1B, Cain + Braun + ? in the outfield. Or Gamel to 1B, Lawrie to 3B? I agree that it would be a no brainer to send them Prince + $10 million if we can get someone like Garza back.

 

I'm not opposed to a youth movement, but LuCroy, Cain, Gamel, Lawrie (plus Escobar) gives us five pre-arby players to go with Hart, Weeks, and Braun. We'd either sink or swim depending on how that youth develops. Maybe they'd be established enough for late 2012 or 2013 to provide solid run support as our young arms start to progress to fill in the 3-5 slots behind Garza & Yo

[HiAndTight]

As a huge Garza fan (though Delmon is finally panning out for the Twins), I would be all over this. I absolutely love what Yovani brings to the table, but I think Garza is actually BETTER than Yo. This would give us a legit 1-2 punch for 5-6 years as noted above. In trading Casey and Prince, we leave ourselves some holes. I'd assume in that scenario that Gamel takes over 3B, Hart slides to 1B, Cain + Braun + ? in the outfield. Or Gamel to 1B, Lawrie to 3B? I agree that it would be a no brainer to send them Prince + $10 million if we can get someone like Garza back.

 

I'm not opposed to a youth movement, but LuCroy, Cain, Gamel, Lawrie (plus Escobar) gives us five pre-arby players to go with Hart, Weeks, and Braun. We'd either sink or swim depending on how that youth develops. Maybe they'd be established enough for late 2012 or 2013 to provide solid run support as our young arms start to progress to fill in the 3-5 slots behind Garza & Yo

Actually if we're going to send them the 10 Million was more geared toward getting Moore back, a pitcher who may very well end up being better than Garza.

 

I would think Prince+McGehee(or what we could get for McGehee) would be enough to get Garza.

[dadofandrew]

I dunno if MLB would allow $10M in a deal like this...you never see it. TB can't afford Prince's deal next year.

[TooLiveBrew]

Why wouldn't MLB allow it?

[Invader3K]

I don't believe TB couldn't afford Prince for just one season. They have a lot of money coming off the books in Crawford, Pena, etc. Even if they drop their payroll down, they should have room.

[dadofandrew]

No more than $1M can change hands without MLB approval. They have no problem granting it in a trade for a veteran who may be released if not dealt, but paying most of Prince's salary and getting a top prospect or two would be akin to selling a player, which they have disallowed in the past. TB has always built through the draft, so no idea if they would have interest in a rental anyway.

[HiAndTight]

No more than $1M can change hands without MLB approval. They have no problem granting it in a trade for a veteran who may be released if not dealt, but paying most of Prince's salary and getting a top prospect or two would be akin to selling a player, which they have disallowed in the past. TB has always built through the draft, so no idea if they would have interest in a rental anyway.

No question this would be a departure from the norm for the Rays, and unlike the Brewers when we traded for CC, I don't think the Rays would even try to sell the notion that they would re-sign Prince.

 

But, a couple things make me think they MAY do this.

1-The Rays are just loaded with pitching prospects. They've got aces coming out of their....well..you get it.

2-They're loaded right now as well. They're going to have one helluva rotation with or without Garza next year, the best in the game in my opinion(potentially, never know if someone's gonna get banged up).

3-This is their last year with Crawford. Not that he's a deal breaker for them, but he's pretty big.

 

A lineup with Carl Crawford, Longoria, Prince, Jennings, Zobrist, right there that's fearsome, especially with their D and their pitching.

 

 

Of course if I were them, just like with CC, I'd rather get a inferior hitter, but still a good one, and get him for 3-4-5 years. But, who knows.

[thebruce44]

No more than $1M can change hands without MLB approval. They have no problem granting it in a trade for a veteran who may be released if not dealt, but paying most of Prince's salary and getting a top prospect or two would be akin to selling a player, which they have disallowed in the past. TB has always built through the draft, so no idea if they would have interest in a rental anyway.

I know it all has to be approved by Bud, but when has MLB said no on a deal? I honestly can't remember them turning something down.

[nate82]

No more than $1M can change hands without MLB approval. They have no problem granting it in a trade for a veteran who may be released if not dealt, but paying most of Prince's salary and getting a top prospect or two would be akin to selling a player, which they have disallowed in the past. TB has always built through the draft, so no idea if they would have interest in a rental anyway.

I know it all has to be approved by Bud, but when has MLB said no on a deal? I honestly can't remember them turning something down.

This one would be turned down by the players union or the players union would make a huge stink about it.

[HiAndTight]

This one would be turned down by the players union or the players union would make a huge stink about it.

Why do you figure that? What would the players union care about this trade? I don't see why they would care, you're not asking a guy to take a pay cut(that they had a problem with, see the Boston Red Sox-Arod discussions).

 

But in this case, Prince gets his money, the Brewers get their players. Nothing wrong with that.

 

There was no problem with the Tigers paying most of Willis' deal, nor the Brewers paying Hall, the Tigers paying Robertson, and the list goes on and on.

[endaround]

Al is wrong. If the money is for salary relief more than $1m can change hands. You just can't buy players. So the Brewers can't trade Fielder to the Yankees for Melky Cabrera and $10m.

[HiAndTight]

Al is wrong. If the money is for salary relief more than $1m can change hands. You just can't buy players. So the Brewers can't trade Fielder to the Yankees for Melky Cabrera and $10m.

You can't do it without getting MLB approval obviously, correct?

 

Otherwise what's the difference between the trade we made with the Mariners taking almost all of Hall's contract for the next year and a half, and getting back Flores(I believe it was Reuben Flores, was it not?).

[Baldkin]

We were trading the player making more money, and giving money for salary relief.

 

That is different than trading for the player making less money and getting money in return, e.g., Trading Prince to the Yankees for some A-baller and $20M).

[HiAndTight]

We were trading the player making more money, and giving money for salary relief.

 

That is different than trading for the player making less money and getting money in return, e.g., Trading Prince to the Yankees for some A-baller and $20M).

Right, which is what we'd be doing if we traded Prince to the Rays for Garza and Moore. Obviously more than Prince, but Prince+whoever+money.