Jim Edmonds traded to Reds for OF Chris Dickerson

[mletto157]

I guess I don't think any on here expect him to be a stud. But a servicable 4th OF, and possible cantidate for the team next year. To me... best case scenario is he performs at his so-far career average stats. If he can do that, maybe moving Hart to 1B after Prince leaves becomes a little more enticing. But no matter what happens... I don't think anyone can argue it was a good value trade, and gives us more options for next years team. Plus, with Braun and Hart hurt, we don't have to keep playing someone like Escobar in RF (not that he was bad at it).

[gregmag]

If somebody legitimately beats out Dickerson for the final roster spot next spring, then we project to have a pretty great team. To put it another way, he looks like a borderline starter at best, a decent platoon guy-4th OF at worst, and I would love to have five outfielders who are better than that. He also brings skills the present team doesn't have in abundance -- LH bat (aside from Fielder), outfield defense, speed -- which makes him an especially good bench fit for us. To say that all he does well is walk and steal bases ignores the facts that he hits .270, has a little pop, and can play any OF position credibly, and to fret about his strikeouts ignores the fact that they haven't (to this point, anyway) stopped him from hitting .270.

[dlk9s]

I'm not dissing the trade at all, because I too think that Dickerson is more return than could be expected from Edmonds. That said, I just think people are getting a little bit ahead of themselves if they think that Dickerson is anything more than a guy who could possibly be beat out for the final roster spot and cut next spring. Talking about arby years, etc. is putting the cart a little before the horse. Hopefully I'm wrong, and he turns out to be a stud, but I just don't see it.

Re-read the thread. If more than one or two people actually said that they expect Dickerson to be the next coming of Ken Griffey, Jr., I'd be surprised.

 

If you have a better trade in mind that Melvin could have made for Edmonds, I'd be interested to hear it.

[RockCoCougars]

Re-read the thread. If more than one or two people actually said that they expect Dickerson to be the next coming of Ken Griffey, Jr., I'd be surprised.

 

If you have a better trade in mind that Melvin could have made for Edmonds, I'd be interested to hear it.

Melvin himself was talking about 'control' over Dickerson. Many here were talking about his high OPS and athleticism. I could care less about the trade (which was basically a salary dump), I'm more nervous about how Melvin worked so hard to spin it. Frankly, I just don't want Dickerson to be guaranteed a roster spot next year, because he likely isn't going to be very good. There will be several guys available on the waiver wire who are as good or better, and I hope this doesn't preclude the Brewers from looking into them. They need good lefthanded hitting bats, not just lefthanded hitters in general. As I said, before, I hope I'm wrong and Dickerson turns out to be serviceable, but if he's hitting .167 with 36 AB's mid May next season, I wouldn't be surprised.

[dlk9s]

As I said, before, I hope I'm wrong and Dickerson turns out to be serviceable, but if he's hitting .167 with 36 AB's mid May next season, I wouldn't be surprised.

Neither would I. I wouldn't be surprised if a backup OF doesn't have many AB's after a few weeks. I also wouldn't be surprised if anybody had a bad 36 AB stretch at any point in the season.

 

I don't see how Melvin "worked so hard to spin it." Everything he said is true. Good OPS, strong athlete, under team control for a while if he's good enough to stick around. I don't think anyone is guaranteeing him a roster spot. I will say, though, unless there is a better option out there (taking into consideration contract and/or what the Brewers would have to give up in a trade), he probably has a pretty good chance of making the team because there aren't many other options in the farm system right now.

 

It's been said a thousand times in this thread, but I still don't think you are fully understanding it: Dickerson was had for a 40-year old, injured outfielder who was going to play for two more months on a team that is not going to make the playoffs. Most of us thought the Brewers would get absolutely zero for Edmonds. The fact that they got a cheap guy who has a solid shot at being at least a backup is gravy.

[RockCoCougars]

It's been said a thousand times in this thread, but I still don't think you are fully understanding it: Dickerson was had for a 40-year old, injured outfielder who was going to play for two more months on a team that is not going to make the playoffs. Most of us thought the Brewers would get absolutely zero for Edmonds. The fact that they got a cheap guy who has a solid shot at being at least a backup is gravy.

I completely understand that Edmonds had no value, and I have no problem with the trade. As long is Dickerson isn't kept around to block a guy like Gamel, or cause the team to DFA Gomez, who still has potential, I have absolutely no problem with this. If this happens, then in my view the trade is a negative, that's all I'm saying. In my view, Gerut is a much better player (though he may cost a million or so more), but for whatever reason, he's been in Macha's doghouse since he's been here (unless you believe that he is actually hurt).

[TooLiveBrew]

I think Gerut & Dickerson are actually pretty comparable players on offense. Defensively at this point I think Dickerson is clearly better. I don't think Dickerson would block Gamel or Gomez in any way; I think he'll take over Gerut's role on the roster, and be a good fit at that.

 

If anyone blocks Gomez, it's Cain. Gomez probably needs to spend some time in AAA. I've said it before, and admittedly I have no proof to back up my hunch, but I really get a sense of a Corey Hart style complacency & sense of entitlement with Carlos. Sending him to AAA could be just the wake-up call he needs to start working on channeling his elite skills into results.

[monty57]

As long is Dickerson isn't kept around to block a guy like Gamel, or cause the team to DFA Gomez, who still has potential, I have absolutely no problem with this.

 

Gomez doesn't excite me at all off the bench. His best asset is defense, which he wouldn't use as a pinch hitter. Pinch hitters either need to be able to get on base or hit home runs, and Gomez is poor in both of these areas. I'd hope that whichever of Cain / Gomez is not starting for the MLB team in 2011 will begin the season playing every day in Nashville.

 

TLB, I agree that an attitude adjustment would probably be good for Gomez. Other than making him do push ups any time he swings for the fences, I think AAA would probably be a good way to see if it is possible to get him to change his approach at the plate. If he can't/won't change his approach, than I don't think I want him taking up a roster spot on the team, as his potential will only become results if he decides to play to his strengths.

 

Gamel's future with the Brewers is just a question mark to me at this point, but I don't think Dickerson will block him. If Gamel is going to be used as a 4th OF for the 2011 Brewers, I'd rather they trade him. I'd think the more likely situation would be that Gamel would either start at RF/1B, with Hart playing the other position. The question will be whether the Brewers would rather use some of their pile of excess cash to sign someone like Dunn or Konerko, which would basically leave no position for Gamel, as I don't see them replacing McGehee with Gamel.

 

Basically, a backup OF / bench player should not block any good player or prospect. In my opinion, getting rid of Macha before next season would change the "should not block" to "will not block."

[giffted1]

In my view, Gerut is a much better player (though he may cost a million or so more), but for whatever reason, he's been in Macha's doghouse since he's been here (unless you believe that he is actually hurt).

How do you see Gerut as a much better player?

 

Defensively, Dickerson seems clearly better. Offensively, while both have struggled recently, Dickerson has better career numbers and gets on base at a solid rate. Dickerson has better speed. Dickerson is also roughly 5 years younger than Gerut.

 

Dickerson strikes out at a higher rate, but that doesn't really matter and certainly shouldn't give Gerut the edge in the comparison.

[RockCoCougars]

In my view, Gerut is a much better player (though he may cost a million or so more), but for whatever reason, he's been in Macha's doghouse since he's been here (unless you believe that he is actually hurt).

How do you see Gerut as a much better player?

 

Defensively, Dickerson seems clearly better. Offensively, while both have struggled recently, Dickerson has better career numbers and gets on base at a solid rate. Dickerson has better speed. Dickerson is also roughly 5 years younger than Gerut.

 

Dickerson strikes out at a higher rate, but that doesn't really matter and certainly shouldn't give Gerut the edge in the comparison.

It's tough to say, as we haven't seen much of Gerut since Macha has blackballed him. That said, he put up some pretty good numbers late last season after Macha was forced to play him due to injuries, and had a great season in 2008 for the Padres. Granted, Gerut is not a great defensive outfielder, but I didn't really notice him being a butcher out there either, I haven't seen anything of Dickerson to comment on his defensive skills, but generally guys built like linebackers aren't the best glovemen as they start to age.

[TooLiveBrew]

Gerut has been rehabbing forever, Macha really didn't play him that much, but he's not the reason Gerut hasn't been able to get back on the field since getting hurt.

[monty57]

I liked Gerut as a platoon mate for Hart going into this season, but once Edmonds was signed, I knew he didn't have a prayer of finding any PT. That said, he has no incentive to faking an injury (unlike Maro Estrada), as he is signed to a MLB contract, so he'll get paid either way, and he is playing for a free agent contract next year, which will be much smaller after nearly a full season on the DL.

 

That said, Gerut is gone next year, so even if he comes back healthy in the next month or so, we should keep him around for his minor league rehab assignment and bring him up in September as a warm body we're already paying for. At this point, I'd much rather see Dickerson get playing time over Gerut.

[Invader3K]

It's been inferred in various comments from the media that the team felt Gerut wasn't trying hard enough to get over his ankle injury. I don't think anyone can blame Macha for the position Gerut is in at this point.

[thebruce44]

RockCoCougars[/b]]Melvin himself was talking about 'control' over Dickerson. Many here were talking about his high OPS and athleticism. I could care less about the trade (which was basically a salary dump), I'm more nervous about how Melvin worked so hard to spin it. Frankly, I just don't want Dickerson to be guaranteed a roster spot next year, because he likely isn't going to be very good. There will be several guys available on the waiver wire who are as good or better, and I hope this doesn't preclude the Brewers from looking into them. They need good lefthanded hitting bats, not just lefthanded hitters in general. As I said, before, I hope I'm wrong and Dickerson turns out to be serviceable, but if he's hitting .167 with 36 AB's mid May next season, I wouldn't be surprised.

Salary dump? This move saves us, what $150k this season?

 

Its like you are just saying random stuff trying to find a way to argue with everyone. We just got a guy who will make around $0.5 mil the next two seasons, plays defense, gets on base, and has some upside. These moves that shave a couple mil here and there are what sustain a team like the Brewers.

 

[RockCoCougars]

Salary dump? This move saves us, what $150k this season?

 

Its like you are just saying random stuff trying to find a way to argue with everyone. We just got a guy who will make around $0.5 mil the next two seasons, plays defense, gets on base, and has some upside. These moves that shave a couple mil here and there are what sustain a team like the Brewers.

Well, arguing aside, the point that I am trying to make is that the odds are about 98% that this is a meaningless trade. Maybe I'm wrong, we shall see. In my view, Dickerson is just a 'guy' who probably would be available on waivers or as a non roster invite next spring. I am no more excited about him than I was about Corey Patterson or Jason Bourgeois last year at this time. Meanwhile the Brewers are still paying Billy Hall to play for someone else.

[PeaveyFury]

I am no more excited about him than I was about Corey Patterson or Jason Bourgeois last year at this time.

 

Neither one of them was a season removed from a .370 OBP in the majors.

[HiAndTight]

I think Gerut & Dickerson are actually pretty comparable players on offense. Defensively at this point I think Dickerson is clearly better. I don't think Dickerson would block Gamel or Gomez in any way; I think he'll take over Gerut's role on the roster, and be a good fit at that.

I certainly hope not. Gerut is terrible. He started 71 games in 2008 and was solid that year.

 

Aside from that, and 2002, his rookie year and before he suffered his knee injuries, he's been AWFUL. I'm not sure why 2008 is exalted so much and yet the 371 AB's since then which he has posted a ridiculous 73 OPS+ with a line of;.223/.269/.374 and a .643 OPS is ignored?

Now he didn't play in '06 and '07, and was terrible in the few AB's he had in '03, '04, '05.

 

If Dickerson DOES turn out to be comparable to Gerut offensively, then I would agree, there's nothing to be excited about.

Of course I think he'll be substantially better AND is several years younger.

 

As for this trade, how many more people are going to ask RockCoCougars what he would have expected we get for Edmonds? He has said several times it wasn't that we didn't get enough back from Edmonds, it was the reaction to Dickerson by many on here.

 

Now I personally am not that excited about this trade, but a big, athletic bench player who has a nice OBP, good speed and can play D is pretty much exactly what I hope for in a minimum salary left handed bat off the bench. If he hit for power consistently, he'd be a good regular, so while I don't agree with him, again, he's said several times it's a matter of the reaction from everyone to him, not what we got for Edmonds.

[TooLiveBrew]

I certainly hope not. Gerut is terrible. He started 71 games in 2008 and was solid that year.

 

Aside from that, and 2002, his rookie year and before he suffered his knee injuries, he's been AWFUL. I'm not sure why 2008 is exalted so much and yet the 371 AB's since then which he has posted a ridiculous 73 OPS+ with a line of;.223/.269/.374 and a .643 OPS is ignored?

Now he didn't play in '06 and '07, and was terrible in the few AB's he had in '03, '04, '05.

 

We've 'been there, and done this' when it comes to this discussion. I don't feel like revisiting it.

[monty57]

Listening to WTMJ's "Brewers 360" this morning, they brought up that Gerut would be coming off his rehab assignment soon, and that Gomez would be off the DL soon. Davey Nelson was the guest. He said that he figured Gerut was the odd man out, which I'd have to agree with. If he can't stay in the minors on rehab assignment until September call-ups, I'd have to think he'll be let go.

 

Nelson also talked about how Gomez has been pretty much forgotten since Cain has been around. They discussed how Cain has brought excitement to the clubhouse, and how it's a shame that Gomez is wasting his talent by not changing his approach at the plate.

 

If it were up to me, I'd probably keep Gomez around for the rest of the year as a backup OF, as they need a bat and so we don't burn an option. Then, if it's possible, stick him in AAA to start next season to see if they can possibly get him to change his approach and tap into his vast potential.

[TooLiveBrew]

...small sample disclaimer...

 

Jim Edmonds since joining Reds: 49 OPS+

 

Chris Dickerson since joining Brewers: 105 OPS+

 

 

I'm still not really sure why Jocketty thought this would be a good idea.

[logan82]

Cause it's Jim Edmonds. Jim freaking Edmonds. Eleventy million time gold glove winner.

[hawing]

Perhaps Jocketty just likes having ex-Cardinals around, much as Doug favors ex-Rangers.

[MoreTrife]

Cause it's Jim Edmonds. Jim freaking Edmonds. Eleventy million time gold glove winner.

Baaahahaha!!