Jim Edmonds traded to Reds for OF Chris Dickerson

[kramnoj]

But I'd like to know what #5 starter type Melvin turned down for JJ only to accept Gomez.

 

That was covered in a different thread, but one of the names mentioned was Michael Bowden. He was rated as a top 80-90 prospect by BA for 3 years, but was unranked going into this year.

 

Another player mentioned was Harang. He certainly hasn't been good this year. I think Doumit was mentioned, maybe Capps. Basically nobody was willing to offer what any fans expected.

 

Gomez was extremely high risk, mediumish reward. Cain had some injury history, so getting Gomez was a gamble. It didn't pay off, but now Cain looks ready, and Dickerson is a great pickup for Edmonds.

[Never Outhustled]

Am I wrong in thinking that Dickerson compare's pretty well to Angel Pagan?

 

Yes he does, good comp. Both are extremely athletic late bloomers. I wanted Pagan a few years ago before he broke out, but Dickerson will do.

[monty57]

Without knowing how bad the injuries are, I'd guess that with Braun having a sore wrist and Hart a sore back, there will be plenty of extra starts available for any healthy OF on the roster.

 

On a side note, will Melvin / Macha ever veer from the 13-man pitching staff? If last night didn't show us that we could use an extra bench player, what will?

[Invader3K]

Without knowing how bad the injuries are, I'd guess that with Braun having a sore wrist and Hart a sore back, there will be plenty of extra starts available for any healthy OF on the roster.

 

On a side note, will Melvin / Macha ever veer from the 13-man pitching staff? If last night didn't show us that we could use an extra bench player, what will?

Yeah, I've been surprised some pitcher hasn't been traded or sent down (though I guess Villanueva already was). With the bullpen being in relatively good shape, I don't see why they can't make room for another position player at this point.

[JohnBriggs12]

Some of the comments indicated worry about Dickerson "stealing AB's from Cain" and the like. First, Cain has all of what, 16 major league AB's? You don't help the team by insuring that a rookie plays everyday because his backup isn't any good. When Hart first came up, he shared time with Gross. Gross enabled Yost to sit Hart against tough right handed starters. That helps build a young player's confidence. When Hart got to the point he proved he could handle being in there every day, they moved Gross. There are plenty of AB's to go around. Not only does Dickerson offer protection in CF, he enables them to give either Braun or Hart a day off now and then. We've seen this year instances where Braun certainly could have used a day off. We hadn't seen that in the past.

 

I think Dickerson figures to be at least the equal of a healthy Gerut and he won't cost nearly what Gerut did this season. You never know too, if a guy will emerge late like McGehee did when an opportunity presents itself. Dickerson could be that type of guy, but that would be a bonus.

[RobertR]

I love what Cain is doing early, but he's going to regress a bit at some point and likely will need a day off at some point. No team is helped by not fielding the best 25 man roster it can. If the manager can't manage the roster, then we'll complain, but a month and a half of Jim Edmonds for a solid, cost controlled, backup outfielder is more value than I ever expected in return. There's very little not to like about the deal.

 

Robert

[PrinceEatMeat]

This hasn't been mentioned, but if Cain played everyday the rest of the season he might pass 150 ab's like Gamel did last year and lose his rookie status. I wonder if the Brewers are looking at that situation? They will likely give Dickerson some starts in CF I would assume.

[dlk9s]

This hasn't been mentioned, but if Cain played everyday the rest of the season he might pass 150 ab's like Gamel did last year and lose his rookie status. I wonder if the Brewers are looking at that situation? They will likely give Dickerson some starts in CF I would assume.

Actually, you just mentioned it. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Sage]

I can't say I don't like this trade. We got nice value in a relatively young OFer with a solid bat (wayyyyyy better than Gomez's bat) and above average defense who is under team control on the cheap for 4 more years, in return for a few weeks of a 40-year-old who is likely to retire after the season. I was holding out hope that we would get some kind of pitching in return, but I didn't expect that, and I'm more than happy with what we did get.

I imagine Dickerson will be starting tonight in LF. I don't know if Hart can play tonight, but I think (judging by the brace on his hand) that Braun will certainly not be playing tonight. I think Dickerson is going to get quite a few at-bats throughout the rest of the season, and I'm looking forward to seeing what we've got in him.

[Funketown]

Hopefully Dickerson gets the start tonight. I'm assuming he will. It will be fun to get a better idea of what we have in him, and if a Braun-Cain-Hart (Dickerson) outfield is the way to go for the next couple years. If Cain can continue to mash, that will be a really solid offensive outfield, and if Cain can continue to fly around the outfield, it might be a tolerable defensive one as well (and a pretty solid one when both Dickerson and Cain are in the OF).

[dadofandrew]

I love what Cain is doing early, but he's going to regress a bit at some point and likely will need a day off at some point. No team is helped by not fielding the best 25 man roster it can. If the manager can't manage the roster, then we'll complain, but a month and a half of Jim Edmonds for a solid, cost controlled, backup outfielder is more value than I ever expected in return. There's very little not to like about the deal.

The irony is, the guy at Fangraphs (I think, it could have been elsewhere) said they should play Dickerson 3 days a week and Cain 4. Of course, they often do not play every day, but some sort of time share, resting Cain versus tough RHP, only makes sense.

 

Cain is not going to hit .450, and as soon as they figure out how to get him out, may need time off to regroup. Escobar has looked far more comfortable since they sat down with him, gave him a couple days off, and given him a day or two off a week. Using Counsell versus a RHP Alcides is not likely to have success against is just common sense.

 

We get spoiled when a guy like Braun or Fielder come along and are immediately stars. Even Hart, and Weeks too, were rested and set up to succeed their first year or year plus.

[Baldkin]

Cain is not going to hit .450,

Lies! He's gonna hit .400 next year!

[Never Outhustled]

The more I think about this deal, the more it reminds me of the Kevin Sietzer/Jeromy Burnitz deal. Hope it works out as well.

[RockCoCougars]

The more I'm reading this thread, the more I think people are overvaluing Chris Dickerson. I'm thinking about starting a thread called 'Chris Dickerson reality check'. I guess it could be worse, Melvin could have reacquired Laynce Nix.

[trwi7]

The more I'm reading this thread, the more I think people are overvaluing Chris Dickerson. I'm thinking about starting a thread called 'Chris Dickerson reality check'.

Who's overvaluing him? He's a 4th outfielder/platoon guy who plays good defense. Is anyone saying he's a star or a starter or anything?

 

 

[TooLiveBrew]

It's turning a relatively useless piece in Edmonds into a pretty useful piece in Dickerson. I recognize that you aren't even interested in whether or not Dickerson can be a good player for the Brewers, RockCo, but most around here are.

[Never Outhustled]

The more I'm reading this thread, the more I think people are overvaluing Chris Dickerson. I'm thinking about starting a thread called 'Chris Dickerson reality check'. I guess it could be worse, Melvin could have reacquired Laynce Nix.

 

Do you care to share with us why you don't think Dickerson is any good? He has a career OPS that is easily above average for a corner OF.

[RockCoCougars]

The more I'm reading this thread, the more I think people are overvaluing Chris Dickerson. I'm thinking about starting a thread called 'Chris Dickerson reality check'. I guess it could be worse, Melvin could have reacquired Laynce Nix.

 

Do you care to share with us why you don't think Dickerson is any good? He has a career OPS that is easily above average for a corner OF.

I don't know, he's 28 years old. He's bounced around the minors for 8 years, never dominating at any level. In those eight years, his career highs are 17 home runs and 70 RBI.He has struck out in roughly 30% of his plate appearances in the minors. The only positives seem to be his willingness to draw a walk, hence the high OPS, and he has shown some base stealing speed....maybe the next manager will actually utilize it.

 

Frankly, I think the comparisons to Jeromy Burnitz, etc. are a little off base.

[LouisEly]

4th OF who should save the Brewers about $1.5M over Gerut next year. Not bad for a month and a half of Edmonds.

 

I wonder if Cincy got wind of the Cardinals snooping around for Edmonds - since they just traded Ludwick - and decided to head that one off at the pass.

 

In 400ish major league at bats he has a .274/.367/.421/.788 line while playing very good defense at all three outfield spots. He's hardly a AAAA player.

 

Remember, 122 IP is too small of a sample to make any judgments about a pitcher, so we shouldn't make any judgments about a hitter after 400 ABs.

[TooLiveBrew]

Frankly, I think the comparisons to Jeromy Burnitz, etc. are a little off base.

 

I didn't take X's post as comparing Dickerson to Burnitz, but the two trades to each other.

[Invader3K]

Frankly, I think the comparisons to Jeromy Burnitz, etc. are a little off base.

I think you're being a bit disingenuous with this comment. Clearly no one expects him to be the caliber of hitter that Burnitz was.

[Never Outhustled]

The more I'm reading this thread, the more I think people are overvaluing Chris Dickerson. I'm thinking about starting a thread called 'Chris Dickerson reality check'. I guess it could be worse, Melvin could have reacquired Laynce Nix.

 

Do you care to share with us why you don't think Dickerson is any good? He has a career OPS that is easily above average for a corner OF.

I don't know, he's 28 years old. He's bounced around the minors for 8 years, never dominating at any level. In those eight years, his career highs are 17 home runs and 70 RBI.He has struck out in roughly 30% of his plate appearances in the minors. The only positives seem to be his willingness to draw a walk, hence the high OPS, and he has shown some base stealing speed....maybe the next manager will actually utilize it.

 

Frankly, I think the comparisons to Jeromy Burnitz, etc. are a little off base.

 

 

Some players develop at different rates. Your ignoring that Dickerson is an elite level athlete, with strong work ethic.He has a 787 career OPS, and that's been held down by injuries.

[monty57]

I'd have to think that anyone expecting any more of this for a month+ of an injured Jim Edmonds was expecting too much. I don't think Dickerson is a world-beater, but he is much more than I would've expected for Edmonds.

 

It's not a bad thing to have control over a decent player through his prime. This allows us to not have to pay a couple million for a 4th OF for the next few years, and if/when someone like Gindl, Schafer, Davis, etc comes in and makes Dickerson unnecessary, we'll be able to trade him at that time. If he does completely stink up the joint (which is possible, but doesn't seem likely), we just cut him and we haven't lost anything, as Edmonds would've been gone anyways.

 

We don't have anyone else to fill the role, so he's not blocking anyone, and if you throw in that Melvin even asked Edmonds to make sure that the veteran would be okay with the trade (for those that may think trading a vet could hurt our chances of signing a FA in the future), I really don't see anything to complain about with this trade.

[jerichoholicninja]

To get anything even close to resembling a major leaguer for Edmonds at this point in the season is a coup. I was expecting some 24 year old A-baller whose shoulder was hanging on by string.

[RockCoCougars]

I'm not dissing the trade at all, because I too think that Dickerson is more return than could be expected from Edmonds. That said, I just think people are getting a little bit ahead of themselves if they think that Dickerson is anything more than a guy who could possibly be beat out for the final roster spot and cut next spring. Talking about arby years, etc. is putting the cart a little before the horse. Hopefully I'm wrong, and he turns out to be a stud, but I just don't see it.