I want Paul DePodesta to be the New GM of the Brewers

[jackalope02ca]

Yep I would have released Jeffress a long time ago and the franchise would have been better off for it in the long run. If he actually plays well enough to stick next year I'm sure we'll end up reading about him at some point in an article about a million dollar talent with a .10 head after he pulls some stunt. As for dominating the majors he hasn't even played at AAA yet. I recall a guy by the name of Hendrickson a few years back who was going to dominate the majors as well.

 

As for what Melvin inherited a trained monkey could have drafted better than the previous regime by just picking up a copy of baseball america the week before the draft and taking the players they recommended.

 

As for the original post of the thread I don't see anyone calling Hicks a genious as he loses business after business. He would have been better off served just keeping Melvin.

[Never Outhustled]

As for what Melvin inherited a trained monkey could have drafted better than the previous regime by just picking up a copy of baseball america the week before the draft and taking the players they recommended.

Thats incorrect.Hart Hardy, Fielder and Parra were all drafted by Z in his 1st 3 drafts with the Brewers just before Melvin arrived. I do agree that the Bando regime was awful.

[Thundercat32]

So Jack Z deserves credit for the good players and Melvin the blame for the bad.

Here's what I said "I also question, if we can give Melvin full credit for his successes". So I'm just saying if Jack Z + Melvin = product A, then when you take away Jack Z from the equation don't expect product A to be full strength, i.e. don't expect the same level of success in future drafts.

[Thundercat32]

Paul DePodesta is being played by Jonah Hill in the Moneyball movie. Maybe we can hire Hill.

As long as we're getting crazy, I mean why not consider James Gammon? He did a pretty mean job of scouting all of that talent for the Indians in Major League. I'm sure Ueck is still tight with him and wouldn't have any trouble persuading him to come here.

[sauveb]

Paul DePodesta is being played by Jonah Hill in the Moneyball movie. Maybe we can hire Hill.

As long as we're getting crazy, I mean why not consider James Gammon? He did a pretty mean job of scouting all of that talent for the Indians in Major League. I'm sure Ueck is still tight with him and wouldn't have any trouble persuading him to come here.

But then we would also have to hire a psychic to contact the spirit of James Gammon, since he died in July. I don't think Ueck wants to be that tight with him.

 

[jjfanec]

Was it 9 drafts with one quality pitcher?

No, I don't think you can say that, because I'm not sure you can say recent drafts should already have supplied top quality MLB pitching. Rogers and Jeffress could make their MLB debuts this Septemember. Jones was the only highly drafted pitcher Z selected that didn't turn out so far, and that was in large part because of Melvins hand picked development team didn't help a pitcher with a sound delivery avoid injury.

 

Also, lets not forget that Z outdrafted his counterparts despite the fact that he had fewer draft picks because of selections given away to sign Jose Hernandez, Damian Miller, and Jeff Suppan.

So, now it is Melvin's fault Jones got injured? Seriously, I think some people here would blame Melvin for the current recession if possible. Jack Z drafted well, but he did not draft pitching well. When you only have ONE quality major league starter in drafts from 2000 to 2005 (I will give him a pass on the later years even though only a couple guys Odorizzi and Jefferies are solid prospects) that is not good. Rogers hopefully bumps it up to 2 quality starters but the reality is Jack Z did nothing to help Melvin in regard to pitching. If you look at most mid market teams I gaurantee they will have way more homegrown starters than we have.

[fleehaw]

Here's what I said "I also question, if we can give Melvin full credit for his successes". So I'm just saying if Jack Z + Melvin = product A, then when you take away Jack Z from the equation don't expect product A to be full strength, i.e. don't expect the same level of success in future drafts.

You make it sound like no one would fill the void left by Jack Z which is not accurate. So the better question is: Will Seid + Melvin lead to better success (product A) than Jack Z + Melvin? Or basically taking out the common Melvin, will Seid be more successful than Jack Z? And it's far too soon to answer that question. My assumption is that they'll be pretty similar.

 

 

[Thundercat32]

Will people credit Bruce Seid when the young pitchers like Odorizzi, Jeffress, and Rivas start coming up, ignoring Melvin's GM status, if they find success?

Seid wasn't hired as Director of Amateur Scouting until Nov of '08, and Odorizzi was selected in the June 2008 draft. Considering at the time Seid was a West Coast crosschecker and Odorizzi was a pitcher from Illinois, then no I'm guessing he won't get much credit for him. Rivas was signed as undrafted free agent from the Dominican in Feb '05, so again unlikely Seid would receive much credit for him either. Following this pattern its hard to believe he'd get much credit (or blame) for Jeremy Jeffress, a kid from Virginia taken in the '06 draft.

Seid can be given credit for Eric Arnett (tho I'm not sure he would like to take credit for him), Kyle Heckathorn, Dylan Covey (provided they sign him), and any other pitching prospects taken or signed after the 2009 draft.

[endaround]

It needs to be constantly mentioned that Gallardo was Melvin going against Jack's opinion

[RockCoCougars]

No more high school pitchers in the first round would be a start. It seems that when these guys pan out, they pan out really well. However, I would bet that over 80% of them flame out horribly. Outside of Sheets, it seems that the college pitchers drafted by the Brewers in the recent past are low ceiling 'signable' guys- Jered Weaver would've been nice. Going further, I can't think of an international pitcher that the Brewers have signed of note since Teddy Higuera or Juan Nieves.

[Thundercat32]

fleehaw wrote: You make it sound like no one would fill the void left by Jack Z which is not accurate. So the better question is: Will Seid + Melvin lead to better success (product A) than Jack Z + Melvin? Or basically taking out the common Melvin, will Seid be more successful than Jack Z? And it's far too soon to answer that question. My assumption is that they'll be pretty similar.

Jack Z rose to become arguably the most sought after future gm of any front office personnel in any organization baseball. Why would you assume Bruce Seid will have similar success? Also, I don't think either scouting director can do much if the GM is bent on ignoring pitching, which has been Melvin's track record in Texas and Milwaukee.

[yfinn6]

Thundercat32 wrote:

As long as we're getting crazy, I mean why not consider James

Gammon? He did a pretty mean job of scouting all of that talent for the

Indians in Major League. I'm sure Ueck is still tight with him and

wouldn't have any trouble persuading him to come here.

James Gammon died on July 16th.

[Thundercat32]

Didn't Sandy Alderson retire once too? That's a better option than hiring guys that were fired, like Melvin and DePodesta.

Frank McCourt married Jamie McCourt (and made her CEO of the Dodgers) and now you wanna trust his judgement to evaluate a gm that could help your ballclub?

[Thundercat32]

yfinn6]

Thundercat32 wrote:

As long as we're getting crazy, I mean why not consider James

Gammon? He did a pretty mean job of scouting all of that talent for the

Indians in Major League. I'm sure Ueck is still tight with him and

wouldn't have any trouble persuading him to come here.

James Gammon died on July 16th.

I didn't know that, but thats missing my point. I was trying to get Rydogg66 to take this thread seriously.

[Thundercat32]

jjfanec,

 

A couple of things Odorizzi was drafted in 08 before Seid took over, so he can't take credit for that selection. Especially since Odorizzi didn't play on the West Coast which is where Seid was assigned before the June 2008 draft.

 

I know, you were only trying to give balance and perspective to Doug Melvin's challenges. You realize every GM deals with those same challenges right? You can't give a GM a free pass by saying look he probably was trying to make some trades but we don't know if he got any good offers from other gms. Melvin has been here 8 years now. Your job as a GM is to find a way to put a winning product on the field. 8 years is plenty of time to do that. If other gms won't let you rip them off, then guess what? Find another way, use the rule 5 draft, sign latin american talent, do something to address your needs. Do you really feel he's done everything that he could of done to put quality pitching on the field? (and yes Ennder I agree with you the pitching has looked worse due to poor fielding)

[Thundercat32]

How is responsible for guys like Peralta and Rivas? Considering they are two of our best prospects pitching-wise who gets the credit for them?

The Scouting Director is also in charge of international signings. The Brewers have done poor in this area, in large part because of Melvins descision to close the Brewers DR academy to save money so it could be shifted to Major League payroll.

Wat? Holy Cow I didn't even know this, I just assumed the Brewers sucked at international scouting, b/c who are the top latin american prospects in the organization? Not many is the answer........ God Bless America, holy mackrel...... ok so I'm reading about this from a Baseball America article. So the first thing Doug Melvin did when he got here in 2003 was shut down the Dominican Republic academy, b/c the players weren't developing like they wanted. My solution that would of just been hire better instructors. Not shut down resources, try and "get by" with a few scouts in the area and then send those players to the instructors in the Arizona league. Keep your resources there and bring your instructors to the talent. You're not going to have as much success convincing kids to leave the country to come to you. How do you screw that up so bad?

[logan82]

I am sure part of Melvin's directive when he took over was to make the team more attractive to potential buyers. Cutting an area that wasn't helping and even best case scenario would probably only bring in a handful of players over a decade seems like the right choice to me.

[Thundercat32]

When Melvin makes plays for big-time FA pitchers but they don't want to come here, is it Melvin's fault? Or is it Melvin's fault that his budget doesn't allow him to add $60M to his offer to Sabathia?

 

I give plenty of credit to Melvin for hiring such a huge-thinking pitching coach with a whole system in mind. Why was this such a good fit & logical choice? Because I think Melvin realized the system was failing to develop quality big-league pitchers and the routes he'd been routinely trying up 'til now to supplement that talent haven't panned out very well at all, so he HAD to look at the whole thing differently.

 

I hold Jack Z. highly accountable for drafting so many pitchers who either blew out, flamed out, or got hurt. Yeah, he drafted lots of great bats. But he drafted a lot of great hitting poor defenders and too many pitchers who could never get things straight and have enough success in the minors, let alone the majors.

 

The trade thing? It takes two to tango. You don't accept other teams' roster dung to move your junk, and you don't offer give away everyone in exchange for each above average SP who might be available.

 

I'm 10 pages from finishing Moneyball. I like many of the theories therein. But re: DePodesta, realize the book is made to highlight mainly the guys & his perspectives that succeeded, not those who failed. I am surprised DePodesta has only had one shot at being a GM. However, I hardly think he'd do any better in the Milwaukee market & with the Brewers than Doug Melvin.

 

(And since when can you figure throwing a bigger contract offer at Andrew Friedman is all it'd take to get him to Milwaukee from Tampa? There's SO much more involved! Why would a smart GM like that want to leave a successful organization challenging the might Yankees for the top of its division and the whole AL for a team in the Brewers that so many of its fans feel has such a hard time ever getting far out of neutral?)

In regards to Friedman, he's rumored to be leaving anyways. Tampa can't resign Crawford and over the next 3-5 years they're going to have more players leaving. Friedman is smart so I think he'd figure something out if he stayed. But it sounds like he wants to leave, if thats the case how can throwing a big pile of money not help?

You sound reasonable, but also like a slight Melvin apologist. I think there's a chance Jack Z wanted to go more in the direction of pitching, but Melvin overruled him or for all we know Jack Z wanted those hitters and Melvin approved it. Either way its really hard to over look Melvins 15 year history of not developing pitching talent. I mean are you going to blame the Rangers director of scouting from 1995-2001 for not producing enough pitching talent too, or is Doug Melvin going to take some of the blame? And as I said before, if your the GM you have to find a way to improve your ballclub regardless of how eager other gms are to make trades with you. Baseball provides many ways, and Melvin is putting up an 0 for pretty much.

[Thundercat32]

Well, from what I've read, the previous academy was pretty lousy; so I don't think that was such a huge loss. They've recently re-established a presence in the Dominican Republic as well.

You HAVE TO scout Latin America to be a successful organization in baseball these days. If the academy is lousy you make it better. Disbanding it is a self imposed death sentence, and among Doug "Get By" Melvin's many sins this is by far the most egregious.

[Thundercat32]

jackalope02ca,

 

Where is your bar for this team? It sounds like you have it at just don't suck. My bar is overachieve, thats what the Rays have done, what the Twins do, what the Rockies have done. My point is there are several small to mid market teams that are successful and make alot of smart decisions to exceed their expectation. Taking a stance of yeah, but we're not the Pirates (who by the way are kicking our butts in developing young players, particularly in Latin America) is not the right stance to take. Really its a terrible point if you want to be honest about it.

[Thundercat32]

I just discovered DePodesta blogs here http://itmightbedangerous...m/2010/08/two-items.html

 

In his most recent post on Wednesday there's a very cool link to a video detailing why Mariano Rivera is so dominating. I recommend you check it out if you haven't seen it before.

[fleehaw]

Here's what I said "I also question, if we can give Melvin full credit for his successes". So I'm just saying if Jack Z + Melvin = product A, then when you take away Jack Z from the equation don't expect product A to be full strength, i.e. don't expect the same level of success in future drafts.

You make it sound like no one would fill the void left by Jack Z which is not accurate. So the better question is: Will Seid + Melvin lead to better success (product A) than Jack Z + Melvin? Or basically taking out the common Melvin, will Seid be more successful than Jack Z? And it's far too soon to answer that question. My assumption is that they'll be pretty similar.

 

Thundercat, I think you missed my point. Not taking into account Seid's contribution to the Brewer's and their future drafts is inaccurate. Given that the majority of people involved in scouting and ultimately drafting/signing players remains intact, then yes, I do think Seid's reign as scouting director will yield similar success to Jack Zs. However, only time will tell.

 

That being said, I don't think anyone will argue with you that the inability to develop impact pitching from within the organization has really handcuffed the Brewers. Is it Melvin's fault? Sure, the buck should stop with him. Is it only his fault? It shouldn't be; all of the involved personnel (Jack Z included) should share some of the blame.

 

Also, we've seem to have seen a change in draft strategy the last couple of years with a real emphasis on drafting pitching. That combined with a system-wide change in pitching philosophy is at least evidence that Melvin and the Brewers are trying to remedy the problem. Again, time will tell how successful it is.

 

It's apparent that you don't like Melvin and you want him gone. That's fine, but not everyone is going to share your opinion. You seem very argumentative when people bring up valid rebuttals to your points (some of which are valid themselves).

 

 

[Thundercat32]

flee,

 

At the start of the season I followed the Brewers very loosely. I paid more attention to them than say a team like the Marlins, but I had a very vague idea of what was actually going on with the team. I was all about the Texas Rangers. I followed them through the newbergreport.com and local media coverage (I live in Dallas, TX). I could recite most of their minor league rosters and knew everything about the major league club, so I was a pretty avid fan. Then some rumors of a Justin Smoak for Cliff Lee trade started floating around and I said to someone "If they do that frank them I'm a Brewers fan". And true to my word I made the switch.

 

I'm from Milwaukee and I rooted for the Brewers any time they weren't playing the Rangers. From a far my thinking was hey they have Braun and Fielder I like both of those guys they'll be fun to root for the next several years. Then the first thing I learned is Prince is likely gone, sort of a downer getting out of the blocks. I actually had a favorable opinion of Doug Melvin, b/c I realized he got the Rangers to 3 playoff appearances while he was here and he often did radio interviews on the sports station in town. He came across and a very nice likeable guy and I came in a month ago with a favorable impression of him.

 

Everyday for a month I've done something that involves looking into the Brewers closer. I had to I was way behind the curve. What I'm finding I don't like too much. I don't mean to come off as argumentative, I just see some ppl posting things that aren't accurate and I'm trying to clear those things up. I guess this is becoming a rallying cry for me also, so I'm more passionate about it and want to convince more ppl to join the cause. I think we should all support firedougmelvin.com

[LouisEly]

It needs to be constantly mentioned that Gallardo was Melvin going against Jack's opinion

This is a really, really important point that could very well be one of the most important moves in the history of the franchise.

[Roscoe Chill]

The Twin Cities and Milwaukee are the same area?