Corey Hart gets 3 year, $26.5 million contract extension

[thebruce44]

Probably to most teams, but I think we could get similar value for those 3 years from a cheaper, cost controlled player who isn't a mental breakdown away from swinging at 55' sliders again.

 

It's easy to say could. Which specific player would this be. and what would you do with the money saved?

 

The Brewers don't have anyone ready to replace Hart, and they aren't going to be hurting for money over the next few years either. This may not be the most efficient use of money, but I think it is a reasonable way to use the resources available to the Brewers.

Gamel, Mat.

 

Extra money? Use it on a Weeks extension, trade for some SP prospects by taking on a salary dump trade. Lots of options.

 

 

[benji]

Can't Casey be our super sub at 3rd/2nd/1st if needed? Cruz and Casey would be our backups and our infield would be set for a few years and cheap.

[phxMILWfan]

That was my thinking too benji. Casey seems like a good option as a sub and might not have the ego to be upset with going from starter to sub.

[monty57]

Hart has been an All-Star because of his bat. He's been a bad RF, and if UZR is any indication, he's gotten/getting worse. I would love to see him at 1B provided he keeps hitting.

 

Right, but when the option is to move Hart to a position that he hasn't played since he was a teenager and replace him in RF with someone who is known to be a bad defender who has never played RF in his life, my vote is to keep Hart in RF. If one of our young corner OFs were MLB ready, I would agree that moving Hart to 1B could be the best option, but I don't want to move both Hart & Gamel to new positions.

 

For Gamel, 1B should be a natural progression from 3B. He can take advantage of his range and corner IF defense without having to deal with the throws which are giving him problems. Now he just has to learn to scoop, which he has the rest of the season of AAA to practice.

[thebruce44]

Not to be picky, but Prince has been better at the plate and on defense than Hart as of this morning. Prince (.388 WOBA/-5.1FLD) Hart (.387 WOBA/-8.1FLD). While the numbers on this contract seem good I still am not sold on Hart. I see him as a 1.5-2 win player going forward with the potential to have a 3ish win year at some point in the contract. Is that worth around $9 mil per? Probably to most teams, but I think we could get similar value for those 3 years from a cheaper, cost controlled player who isn't a mental breakdown away from swinging at 55' sliders again.

I know a lot of posters on here are those that think recently created "player value stats" such as WOBA, are the "be all and end all" of stats. Sorry, but there is no one stat, even those that purport to define a players value that accurately defines a players contribution to a team for the simple reason that it's impossible to create an all in one formula for every player in every role. The role of a leadoff hitter is vastly different than a cleanup hitter. Does anyone who has watched the Brewers this year honestly think that Fielder has contributed more offensively than Corey Hart? Where in those stats do they take into account going from 1st to 3rd on a single or scoring from 2nd on a base hit, or hitting in the clutch? To think he has, you have to believe in stats such as WOBA with a fervor that is religious in nature and that's my biggest problem with those that rely on those numbers. Baseball isn't a religion and no stat is dogma.

 

I'm not saying Hart is a better offensive player than Fielder. Fielder rarely faces anything but left handed pitchers after the 6th inning. Teams pay extra special attention game planning vs. Fielder. But it's clear that Hart has produced more than Fielder has in 2010. No made up stat convinces me otherwise.

Well we aren't going to agree on this since I have noticed we seem to have fairly differing fundamental views on the game of baseball. In my mind Prince is a better offensive and defensive player than Hart and on offense it isn't even close. I value OBP more than SLG (hence my use of WOBA in this case), especially when the majority of Hart's slugging is coming from a fluky and unmaintainable amount of HRs/FB. I put a lot more stock in this than their AVG with RISP. So to answer your question, I do think Fielder has contributed more this year than Hart on offense.

 

I do think that Hart's defense probably isn't as bad as I think it is, but its still rough and regressing. To be worse than Fielder really says something since he is pretty terrible himself.

[trwi7]

In my mind Prince is a better offensive and defensive player than Hart and on offense it isn't even close

Fielder isn't a better defensive player. He just plays an easier defensive position. What would Fielder's UZR be if he played right field?

[DHonks]

Fielder is among the worst 2 or 3 defenders at his position. David Ortiz, Adam Dunn, etc could all likely play a better first base. Fielder has tremendously regressed this year defensively, based on constant observation. In fact, it appears 2009 was his only decent year. He doesn't get to many balls, can't bend over, and has poor footwork/positioning at the bag. Richie Sexson's right knee routinely was dirty from burying it in the dirt to "get low" for fielding balls. Fielder bends at the waist.

[TooLiveBrew]

Heck, Adam Dunn has played a better first base this season. I really think most of us have just gotten used to Prince's awful defense at 1B. It's actually going to be nice to upgrade defensively there once he moves on. 2009 looks like a complete outlier at this point.

[thebruce44]

In my mind Prince is a better offensive and defensive player than Hart and on offense it isn't even close

Fielder isn't a better defensive player. He just plays an easier defensive position. What would Fielder's UZR be if he played right field?

 

Yes, I agree with that. In terms of his peers at his position though Hart is brutal both from my observations and according to the stats. As I said before though, I probably think Hart is worse than he really is on defense.

[FVBrewerFan]

Is this official yet? I'll echo what others have said about how this affects the rest of the diamond. I would keep Hart in RF, and move Lawrie to 3B, Gamel to 1B. McGehee could be a reserve bat with some starts at 1B vs LHP. (If he's not moved in a trade.) That would be a drastic improvment defensivley at 3B, and a marginal impovement at 1B.

 

Then offensively, you're replacing Prince, McGehee, and Gomez with Gamel, Lawrie, Cain. I don't think that will be a very big drop-off collectively.

[reillymcshane]

We are a pretty weak team defensively - Hart, Braun, McGehee are all below average. Escobar is decent, but has a lot of obvious potential. Weeks has turned himself into an average defensive player. Fielder has worked hard to get better, but he's at best, average. I would think Gamel would be an upgrade. His problems defensively usually came on throwing - and moving to 1B would alleviate that issue.

 

Hart and Braun aren't any great shakes in the corner OF spots. The more time they spend out there, hopefully, the better they get. Braun at 1B might be a good idea - as someone mentioned. But then you have no LF. And if Braun and Hart can produce - we'll take their weak D.

 

McGehee isn't horrible - he just isn't athletic enough to be anything more than average. I'd like to see him lose a little weight, get a little more mobility. He might lose some power, but if he got a little quicker, he might improve his average and his defense.

[TooLiveBrew]

That would be a drastic improvment defensivley at 3B

 

I'm not sure this can be said yet. There's no reason to necessarily expect Lawrie to handle 3B. I hope he can, though.

[The Truth]

I like this signing. I complain as much as anyone about Melvin but I do like that he has extended Braun, Gallardo and Hart

 

I also like the possibility of Gamel at 1B, he'd be (likely) a tremendous upgrade over Prince defensively

[logan82]

Not sure what to think about this. I would have rather woken up to a Weeks extension but I guess this is ok. Hart is one of my favorite players but I am not sure it is in our best interest to extend him.

[Never Outhustled]

I'm pleasantly surprised by the length of Hart's deal. It looks like the public announcement of Gamel working in RF, and his 1 start there really provided the Brewers with some much needed leverage.

[Sage]

I'll just point this out. Hart is currently putting up a BABIP of .309, compared to his career BABIP of .306. (For those who don't know, BABIP is Batting Average on Balls In Play.) This shows that Hart is, in fact, not having a fluky season. His power is a bit fluky, and we can expect that to go down (ISO of .277 this year, to his career ISO of .209). However, besides power, the season he's putting up (AVG, OBP, wOBA, etc.) is not at all fluky. Thus, I do like this contract. It's not a crippling contract (Billy Hall style), and besides, he would have gotten this much (or more) in arbitration this offseason anyway.

[jackalope02ca]

Great signing. Very happy to see this. Fair dollar amount. Now what to do with Weeks? Can he keep playing the way he is without getting hurt. Early in the year I was totally against signing him to an extension. Now I'm kind of on the fence. Not yet convinced he's the real deal but getting closer all the time to buying in.

[kramnoj]

Right, but when the option is to move Hart to a position that he hasn't played since he was a teenager

 

You may be going for some hyperbole, but this isn't true. He did play in 48 games at 1B at age 20 and has played a few games in the minors since then, most recently in 2006. He even started a game there in the majors in 2006.

 

It will be interesting to see how Gamel and Lawrie perform at their other positions. If Lawrie can play 3B and Gamel can play RF, then go ahead and move Hart to 1B. Casey can be a bench player until he gets too expensive, or until he gets replaced by better options.

[BrewCrewForever]

I like the extension, I would have been fine trading Corey if we could have gotten a good pitcher back, but no one bit so they signed him to a fair deal for both sides. This along with the moves of Gamel and Lawrie to other positions tells me they at least have a plan now when Fielder is traded thsi offseason for pitching. Now go sign Weeks to an extension and I think our offense will still be pretty productive even with out Fielder. Just have to improve that pitching, which we all know. Here would be my 2012 lineup and possibly even 2011 I guess:

 

1. Cain - CF

2. Hart - RF

3. Weeks - 2B

4. Braun - LF

5. Gamel - 1B

6. Lawrie - 3B

7. Lucroy - C

8. Escobar - SS

9. Pitcher

[TooLiveBrew]

I'll just point this out. Hart is currently putting up a BABIP of .309, compared to his career BABIP of .306. (For those who don't know, BABIP is Batting Average on Balls In Play.) This shows that Hart is, in fact, not having a fluky season. His power is a bit fluky, and we can expect that to go down (ISO of .277 this year, to his career ISO of .209). However, besides power, the season he's putting up (AVG, OBP, wOBA, etc.) is not at all fluky. Thus, I do like this contract. It's not a crippling contract (Billy Hall style), and besides, he would have gotten this much (or more) in arbitration this offseason anyway.

I agree that he could well have gotten more in arbitration this coming offseason, one reason I like the contract (as well as its short duration). On his power, though -- that's what his value has been all about this season. His AVG & OBP would definitely be lower if not for the 17.8% HR/FB rate, one way above his career norms. I think you're right that his power is a bit fluky, and the value of this contract will probably depend on how much he's able to keep his power from dropping.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

That's a competitive lineup. It may be a slight downtick from the current one with the absence of Fielder, but there could be lesser improvements spread around the rest of the order. Between Hart, Braun & Weeks they should be able to maintain as a group...maybe Braun picks up where Hart and Weeks cool off. Cain at a minimum should be Gomez to start and improve to an upgrade. Same with Lawrie. Lucroy and Escobar will each improve. If Gamel can be at least a league average 1B, they should be close to this year's club. They will miss Fielder's power, but they should have plenty of pop in that lineup.

 

By 2012, maybe some of their minor league pitching starts to kick in, and if we can get something for Prince we should be competitive.

[RobDeer 45]

Happy for Teen Wolf and excited to have him in Milwaukee still. I like the short term contract. I'm glad he likes it hear and gets to stay here for now. Now let's get a pitcher or two for Prince and make some runs in 2012-14!

[JohnBriggs12]

I'll just point this out. Hart is currently putting up a BABIP of .309, compared to his career BABIP of .306. (For those who don't know, BABIP is Batting Average on Balls In Play.) This shows that Hart is, in fact, not having a fluky season. His power is a bit fluky, and we can expect that to go down (ISO of .277 this year, to his career ISO of .209). However, besides power, the season he's putting up (AVG, OBP, wOBA, etc.) is not at all fluky. Thus, I do like this contract. It's not a crippling contract (Billy Hall style), and besides, he would have gotten this much (or more) in arbitration this offseason anyway.

I don't think his power is fluky. His adjustment (lowering his hands) allows him to get more loft on the ball. He also seems (finally) to have accepted that he's better off defined as a power guy that can run rather than a speed guy with some power. In past seasons, he often seemed more interested in being Juan Pierre, laying down bunts and trying to hit the ball on the ground and running. He finally realized he's 6'6" 230 lbs with the ability to drive the ball.

[crewcrazy]

Money breakdown, according to a THweet:

 

2011: $6.5M

2012: $9M

2013: $10

 

Perks:

- $1 million signing bonus

- "Limited no trade" (guessing he submitted a list of a few teams)

[thebruce44]

I'll just point this out. Hart is currently putting up a BABIP of .309, compared to his career BABIP of .306. (For those who don't know, BABIP is Batting Average on Balls In Play.) This shows that Hart is, in fact, not having a fluky season. His power is a bit fluky, and we can expect that to go down (ISO of .277 this year, to his career ISO of .209). However, besides power, the season he's putting up (AVG, OBP, wOBA, etc.) is not at all fluky. Thus, I do like this contract. It's not a crippling contract (Billy Hall style), and besides, he would have gotten this much (or more) in arbitration this offseason anyway.

 

As Toolivebrew said, his season is fluky based on his HR/FB rate being unsubstainable. BABIP doesn't tell the whole story. He is a guy who typically only carries an OBP .050 higher than his BA. This year he is batting around .290 so his OBP is up to .345. His SLG is increadable right now, but as I said mostly based on so many of his flys landing over the fence instead of in a glove.

 

If you normalize his HR rate to his career average, he would be batting around .265, OPSing .320, have 16 HRs, be SLGing .485, and OPSing .805. Thats a definite improvement over the last few seasons, but with his defense still a below average RFer.

 

Of course, this is just a rough calculations and a lot more goes into it than that. I am not in any way saying he has played to the level above, just that a couple of fly balls carrying can really change things up. Now maybe he continues to carry a high HR/FB rate though out the rest of his career (probably not this high but maybe higher than 12%). Players since the steroid era don't really seem to jump up in power this much though after poor performance in the 2 previous seasons.