Still in contention?

[craigharmann]

I guess we all know the answer, but there were no trades made because "we're in contention"....now, after being swept by the Astros, who sold off Berkman and Oswalt, what happens next? Obviously, the thought of being in contention was an insane idea in the first place, but something's gotta happen. I'm about at my wits end with this team.

[MNBrew]

I'm right with you. I'm exasperated. I do think the Crew has the talent to at least be close to contending (read: over .500, & possibly a good bit over it). I still don't think DM starts selling off everyone for A-ballers.....

 

To me, the thing is that many of these current Brewers either have been on contenders or were with the Brewers when they were. The fact that too many players are underperforming, inconsistent, &/or regressing ultimately comes back to the manager.

 

So in answer to your "what happens next?", I think one of the next steps HAS to involve Ken Macha being shown the door. The talent level hasn't declined under him (other than CC & Sheets leaving), and you could argue in some ways it should be even higher than it was thanks to young players developing/improving. But their inconsistency grows. They have the fastest team they've had since '92 but NEVER run. Their effort level remains high but the physical & mental mistake factors aren't improving & may be worsening. Etc.... What changed over the past couple years? Mainly & most obviously, it's the manager. Macha has to go. And Randolph needs to guide the ship. He gets how to manage a NL team. He's had proven success in spite of an utterly hair-brained front office.

 

I like Sveum a lot, too. But I think Randolph has the experience to be able to turn this thing around. And I hope it happens right away.

[wibadgers23]

I really don't think Melvin and company are that delusional to think that we are/were still in contention. No trades were made because teams weren't willing to give up good prospects or major league ready players. I really hope we actually play some of our youngsters down the stretch this year. This includes Cain, Gamel, and possibly a pitcher like Rivas. That being said, I just don't see it happening. Like you though, I am also at my wits end, especially with management.

[thablingster]

The main thing we were in contention for was to finish with another .500 season. Now that we're back to 10 under, even that will be difficult.

 

At this point any moves made management wise (e.g.: firing Macha or Melvin) would just be to make people feel like they're doing something, so it won't happen.

 

As far as answers to what should be done, the best thing they could do is call up Cain, play him in CF everyday and send Gomez down to AAA for retooling.

 

Gomez wants to be that combo guy like Carlos Beltran who has speed and power, but it just doesn't work for him (at least at this point in his career). When they send him down, make Gomez bunt for a hit at least once per game. Restrict him from taking huge hacks and just teach him to swing like Nyjer Morgan/Juan Pierre/Otis Nixon. This serves two purposes: it gets Cain experience at the big league level and it hopefully will give Gomez an opportunity to refine his offensive game so it can catch up to his defensive abilities.

 

Another thing that might be worthwhile to do is get Capuano a few more starts to see what we have with him and if he's worth keeping around next year.

 

At this point since the Brewers stood pat at the deadline they really have to just kind of ride out the rest of the year with what they've got.

[pitchleague]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: We're the latest incarnation of the Cleveland Indians from a few years ago. The same Indians squad that surprised people by improving, making the playoffs (ALCS actually), and motivating their entire fan base and the media to believe that they were a team on the rise.

 

And then they were a losing team for 3 straight seasons, completely "under performing" every time. The windows on a lot of their stars was closing (Lee, Sabathia, among others) so they were traded.

 

This sounds awfully familiar.

[MNBrew]

At this point, I fully agree that Cain up & Gomez to AAA makes sense for all the reasons stated by thablingster.

 

But I disagree on the timing of firing Macha (and strongly disagree on the notion of firing Melvin altogether): If the team needs better leadership & managing from its manager, it needs to start right away. Changing the culture & approach of the team shouldn't wait. Honestly, I don't think they can afford to wait.

 

Failing to start Capuano regularly seems totally stupid on Macha's part, too, especially considering Chris Narveson & his 6-ish ERA have proven beyond a doubt that they're a total hindrance to the team's chances of winning 3 out of his every 4 starts.

[RockCoCougars]

If they could win 20 in a row, they might get back into things.....Seriously, I was one of the few here who thought they had a chance prior to the Reds series, but after Monday, they needed to win 5 in a row, not lose them in mostly embarrassing fashion. The only race left now, is whether they can finish ahead of the Cubs.

 

Time to fire Macha and give Sveum the job for the rest of the year. If Randolph doesn't like it, he can go home as well.

[PrinceEatMeat]

The things I would do are A) Call-up Cain and start him in CF everyday, and send Gomez to AAA B) Fire Macha, and replace him with Randolph C) Put Capuano in the rotation in place of Narveson D) Trade Hoffman and Edmonds.

[rluzinski]

The Brewers have the rights to Hart and Fielder though 2011, so there was no need to HAVE to trade either of them now.

[Oldcity]

I don't like the idea of firing Macha. There's a good chance that just by random luck the team will play better, and then I'd be afraid Randolph or Sveum would be retained beyond this year. I don't want either of them as the next manager.

[chuckyboy]

They will wait till the offseason to fire Macha, when the ticket drive starts. They can hype how the Brewers will be back under manager _____.

[Thundercat32]

The Brewers have the rights to Hart and Fielder though 2011, so there was no need to HAVE to trade either of them now.

everyday that passes is just one less day you have them under contract. in theory their value decreases by the day as well, so in that sense yes they needed to trade them. the only exceptions will be if melvin works a better deal for those players in the offseason or if they keep hart (unlikely fielder) long term and he continues to provide production at his current rate.

[endaround]

The Brewers have the rights to Hart and Fielder though 2011, so there was no need to HAVE to trade either of them now.

everyday that passes is just one less day you have them under contract. in theory their value decreases by the day as well, so in that sense yes they needed to trade them. the only exceptions will be if melvin works a better deal for those players in the offseason or if they keep hart (unlikely fielder) long term and he continues to provide production at his current rate.

Except in the offseason the number of buyers goes from 8 to 20. The only 1B traded was Berkman and the Astros paid for New York to take part of his contract.

[jeffy]

I don't really think the no trades was due to being in contention, it was due to not being offered enough to give up players who are not free agents until the end of next season. They have no players, with significant value to contending teams, who are free agents at the end of this season. There was no reason to trade Hart and/or Fielder unless an outstanding offer were made. Fielder and Hart do not even have to be traded in the off-season or even at next year's deadline, if they are not offered enough in return they can take draft picks.

 

everyday that passes is just one less day you have them under contract. in theory their value decreases by the day

 

Well, take that theory to it's logical conclusion and they ought to trade Braun, Weeks, Axford, Braddock, and Gallardo as their value decreases every day, as well.

[crewcrazy]

They will wait till the offseason to fire Macha, when the ticket drive starts. They can hype how the Brewers will be back under manager _____.

While I agree they'll let Macha go, they probably won't be "firing" him -- they'll simply decline his option for next season and let the deal expire. Accomplishes the goal of at least trying to sell fans on a "new direction" without having to deal with an interim manager.

[craigharmann]

After sleeping on it, and reading that Hart was resigned, I'm feeling a little bit better. I still think I will pay more attention to the minors as opposed to the majors when it comes to the Brewers. As for the majors, I think it's time to turn my sights more on my AL team, the Rangers.

[Invader3K]

I don't like the idea of firing Macha. There's a good chance that just by random luck the team will play better, and then I'd be afraid Randolph or Sveum would be retained beyond this year. I don't want either of them as the next manager.

Yeah, I agree Stevo. I could see Sveum or Randolph being a bit of an improvement in terms of wins down the stretch, and then the team would basically be obligated to retain them next season. I'd rather see all possible candidates considered at that point.

[Ennder]

I don't think contention had anything to do with not trading anyone. There was no market for Fielder and Hart got hurt. Maybe we could have moved like Edmonds as a salary dump or something but that kind of trade can still happen.

[endaround]

Giving that no team has been shelling out much money in deadline deals, a Fielder trade could even still happen

[Invader3K]

I don't think contention had anything to do with not trading anyone. There was no market for Fielder and Hart got hurt. Maybe we could have moved like Edmonds as a salary dump or something but that kind of trade can still happen.

Yeah, I have to (grudgingly) agree with this. I was disappointed Melvin made no moves whatsoever, but I guess I just have to trust that there wasn't much available.

 

I would not be shocked to possibly see Edmonds, Hoffman, maybe a couple others, dealt this month. It seems not uncommon to see veterans dealt in waiver deals.

 

I do think with the right moves this team can easily contend again next year. Of course, it all hinges on being able to add quality starting pitching and not just signing more Doug Davis/Braden Looper types.

[monty57]

If they really didn't think they were still in contention this year, then why didn't they trade Dave Bush? He won't be around next year and he won't bring us any draft picks when he leaves. All he does is gives us a chance to possibly win an extra game or two this season over his replacement (probably Capuano). He's a decent pitcher who isn't owed much money for the rest of the year, so we should've been able to get a decent prospect for him (read: not a "top prospect," but someone who projects to help our MLB team in the future).

 

As far as "what will happen next?" Well, Hart's signed now, so our chance of helping our 2011 rotation just got a little smaller. Basically, now we have (A) the probable offseason Fielder trade (B) Free agency and © Rivas, Rogers, etc from the minors.

 

Since we will need to get a "proven MLB" guy for Fielder, we'll likely get someone pretty good with 1-2 years left on his contract or someone not quite as good with 3-4 years on his contract. I'd guess we'll once again pick up a free agent pitcher, and I just hope it's a 1-2 year deal with Vazquez, as the FA SP market is pretty thin, and at least Vazquez is a high K guy, which we need as our defense will not be improved next year.

 

So, 2011's roster will look a lot like this year's roster. Cain will probably be in CF, with Gomez a backup, and Gamel will probably be at 1B instead of Fielder. Our rotation will include Yo, Wolf, and probably Parra, along with the player received in the Fielder trade, and a probable free agent guy. Our offense will be worse with the loss of Fielder, and I hope our rotation will be better. I really, really hope the new manager makes a big difference.

[Ennder]

If they really didn't think they were still in contention this year, then why didn't they trade Dave Bush

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/a...id=mil&partnerId=rss_mil

 

 

"Yet Bush, 30, is generating almost no trade buzz.

 

"I get a kick out of teams talking about all of these other pitchers, and [bush] has more quality starts than all of them," general manager Doug Melvin said. "He's pitched as well or better than some of these names I hear on the trade front.

 

"His name never comes up. That's fine. That's Dave Bush. He always goes under the radar."

 

Nobody wanted Bush.

[monty57]

If they really didn't think they were still in contention this year, then why didn't they trade Dave Bush

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/a...id=mil&partnerId=rss_mil

 

 

"Yet Bush, 30, is generating almost no trade buzz.

 

"I get a kick out of teams talking about all of these other pitchers, and [bush] has more quality starts than all of them," general manager Doug Melvin said. "He's pitched as well or better than some of these names I hear on the trade front.

 

"His name never comes up. That's fine. That's Dave Bush. He always goes under the radar."

 

Nobody wanted Bush.

But shouldn't Melvin have called other GM's to "bring his name up," rather than calling the paper to joke about no one else bringing his name up? The Cardinals traded Ludwick to get Westbrook, and Bush is having as good a season as Westbrook and costs about 1/3 as much (Westbrook is making $11MM this year).

It seems that when anyone's name is brought up, Melvin always responds that either "no one is calling," or "I've received some calls." According to rumors, with Hart, it was Sabean in town asking about Hart which led to other teams inquiring about him. In a different article I read, Melvin made a statement to the effect of "When other GM's call asking about a player, I tell them that they're the one who called, so what are they willing to offer."

Does Melvin ever initiate trade dialogue? It's easy when someone calls with an offer to simply listen to their offer and ask for more, but you have to be on the phone to everyone. I'm sure he does make calls, but it seems every quote I read makes me feel like he sits in his office waiting for the phone to ring.

To me, it's hard to believe that some team in need of pitching help for a playoff push wouldn't have given us something for Dave Bush. The Phillies are starting Joe Blanton (5.86 ERA, 1.47 WHIP), The Marlins have Volstad (4.71 ERA, 1.41 WHIP) and Nate Robertson (5.47 ERA, 1.50 WHIP), San Diego's got Kevin Correia (5.06 ERA, 1.84 WHIP), the Angels have Kazmir (6.92 ERA, 1.64 WHIP), Texas has Scott Feldman (5.46 ERA, 1.60 WHIP) and Rich Harden (5.25 ERA, 1.61 WHIP), the Twins have Nick Blackburn (6.66 ERA, 1.68 WHIP) and Scott Baker (5.00 ERA, 1.37 WHIP), the Yankees had injuries to Burnett and Pettite and may want insurance, and the Red Sox have Wakefield (5.65 ERA, 1.34 WHIP) and Beckett (6.33 ERA, 1.54 WHIP).

Granted, some of these pitchers are better than Bush, and ERA/WHIP was just a quick way I looked, but just this quick glance showed me quite a few teams that could at least have some interest in Dave Bush to help as a back-of-the-rotation starter for a playoff push. Again, we're getting nothing for him when he walks at the end of the season, so anything we'd get in a trade would be better than nothing. The only way Bush helps us is by making us a little better this season, so not trading him seems to mean that we'd rather be slightly better this year rather than slightly better in future years.

Not a big deal in and of itself, but when combined with not trading Edmonds this year or Cameron and Hoffman last year, trading away a useful bench bat in Cole Gillespie, etc, and pretty soon all these deadline opportunities for slight improvements add up.

[Ennder]

I'm sure he did shop Bush around. He could have shopped ever single player on the team for all we know. Every time Bush's name came up on trade rumor sites it was followed by nobody has any interest in him. I'm guessing teams just didn't want him more than anything.

[logan82]

But shouldn't Melvin have called other GM's to "bring his name up," rather than calling the paper to joke about no one else bringing his name up?

 

Why is this assumption made? Do you seriously believe that Melvin didn't call teams at all on Bush?