Target Scott Kazmir in the offseason?

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

I think SK would be a good "buy low" candidate. He's signed for $12m in 2011, and a team option ($2.5m buyout) for 2012. So essentially, its a one year/$14.5m deal. If he doesn't pan out, we cut our losses. If he has a solid first half and turns it around, we can extend him. Not sure what the deal is. I believe he's 26, and has had a lousy year this year, following an average year last year (which followed four consecutive outstanding years).

 

I'd probably consider a Fielder + Parra for Kazmir + elite chip in the offseason. Thoughts?

[RockCoCougars]

I don't even know if I'd do a Randy Wolf for Kazmir deal at this point. Kazmir is fairly young, but his performance has been pretty bad the past couple of seasons. Going further he has had some issues with 'shoulder fatigue'. I'd probably stay away,.

[rcon14]

The Angels would trade Kazmir for the countrys national debt right now.

[DannoMac21]

That's an awful trade. Wow.

[trwi7]

The only elite chip the Angels have is Trout, who they aren't going to trade.

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

I think we seriously are over-valuing our players right now. Players that will not be here beyond 2011 have no value in 2012 to the Brewers.

[Invader3K]

Yes, but Kazmir just is not very good. I'd rather keep Prince and take the comp picks then give him up for another Parra/Narveson type pitcher.

[nate82]

The only elite chip the Angels have is Trout, who they aren't going to trade.

Not true they have a nice pitcher in Tyler Chatwood in AA right now.

 

Year	Age	Tm	Lg	Lev	W	L	W-L%	ERA	G	GS	GF	CG	SHO	SV	IP	H	R	ER	HR	BB	IBB	SO	HBP	BK	WP	BF	WHIP	H/9	HR/9	BB/9	SO/9	SO/BB
3 Seasons					19	16	.543	3.16	57	56	0	1	1	0	282.0	243	118	99	11	155	0	245	7	0	28	1191	1.411	7.8	0.4	4.9	7.8	1.58
2008	18	Angels	ARIZ	Rk	1	2	.333	3.08	11	11	0	0	0	0	38.0	25	15	13	1	36	0	48	0	0	7	166	1.605	5.9	0.2	8.5	11.4	1.33
2009	19	Cedar Rapids	MIDW	A	8	7	.533	4.02	24	24	0	0	0	0	116.1	99	60	52	3	66	0	106	3	0	11	492	1.418	7.7	0.2	5.1	8.2	1.61
2010	20	2 Teams	2 Lgs	A+-AA	10	7	.588	2.40	22	21	0	1	1	0	127.2	119	43	34	7	53	0	91	4	0	10	533	1.347	8.4	0.5	3.7	6.4	1.72
2010	20	Rancho Cucamonga	CALL	A+	8	3	.727	1.77	14	13	0	0	0	0	81.1	71	18	16	6	36	0	70	2	0	5	335	1.316	7.9	0.7	4.0	7.7	1.94
2010	20	Arkansas	TL	AA	2	4	.333	3.50	8	8	0	1	1	0	46.1	48	25	18	1	17	0	21	2	0	5	198	1.403	9.3	0.2	3.3	4.1	1.24

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

Show me where Parra/Narverson put up four consecutive seasons of sub 4.00 eras and the year where they lead the league in strikeouts

[endaround]

Show me where Kazmir is the same pitcher who did that. Kazmir +$10m for Coffey might be OK.

[crewcrazy]

Kazmir is multiple injuries removed from those seasons, the last of which was in 2008. Since then, he's lost almost 2 MPH on both his fastball and slider. His K/9 has fallen from 9.81 to 7.15 to 5.85, and his BB/9 has gone from 4.14 to 3.67 to 4.78. The only way I'd be interested in Kazmir is if it was an Oswalt-type deal: the Angels give the Brewers a boatload of cash, and the Brewers only have to give up a couple of C-grade prospects. Parra's been better this season and would be the better option going forward.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I want nothing to do with Kazmir. I don't get why people always seem to want more Manny Parra's on this team. One is enough imo.

[brewmann04]

Please enough of these losing pitchers we need to stay away from them at all cost.

[Invader3K]

I want nothing to do with Kazmir. I don't get why people always seem to want more Manny Parra's on this team. One is enough imo.

Yeah, this sums up my feelings.

[GAME05]

$14M for Kazmir isn't even "buy-low" for the Yankees. Kazmir sure had a lot of promise, but has peaked ability-wise because of injury. at his best he's a #4, but then you're also assured of having injury issues during the season.

 

i'd welcome Kazmir here at the point that we'd only have to pay him about $6M for the year and not have to give up anything to get him. but really, i think i'd be more comfortable letting Bill Hall pitch.

[JohnBriggs12]

I think the thinking is sound about Kazmir in that it wouldn't cost much in players for guy who's overpaid based on recent performance, but who's only signed through 2011, and gamble that in a contract year, he might revert to something close to his peak. Kazmir's numbers look pretty bad (in fact they are very Parra like) but it wouldn't hurt to scout him.

 

A little cheaper than Kazmir (and not quite as bad this year) would be a guy like an Aaron Cook. Cook's control has been off this year (3.6 BB per 9), so you don't know if there's some soreness causing that or just years of pitching in Coors (though he's been better there than on the road) but he's made every start, kept the ball in the park as usual and made his fielders work with his normal low K rate. His numbers could have been affected by missing Tulowitzki for 5 weeks too.

 

Cook is signed for 2011 for $9.25 million with mutual $11 million option for 2012 and a $500K buyout.

[dadofandrew]

Right idea, wrong pitcher. Kazmir may well be let go for nothing if the Crew claimed him on waivers this month.

 

However, looking for an effective SP that is soon to be getting expensive is a good idea. Nolasco looks like he's being kept by the Marlins, but someone along those lines. MIN has several young SP's, TOR, and so on. The fist year of arby is not too bad (often $3M), but year two and three are tough for budget conscious teams still plodding in an old ballpark/bad media deals.

 

Cook has had astounding success, especially at altitude, but his K numbers frighten me. They are just so low, it's tough to find a comparison.

[Diskono]

Not true they have a nice pitcher in Tyler Chatwood in AA right now.

Can't do it, he's not 6'2".

[igor67]

I kind of like the Nolasco idea, the Marlins like their young guns, and they really tend to view prospects as cost controlled for more like 4 years instead of 6 since they aren't too fond of paying near market value. Giving that they keep running Emillio Bonifacio out there Casey might be a nice starting point. Maybe you find an interesting match if you do a 3-way and use parts from Prince to match up even better?

[dlk9s]

I'd be willing to take a risk on Kazmir, but only if it was truly a "buy low" scenario. $12 million (or $14.5, depending on how you look at it) plus whoever you'd have to trade for him isn't exactly buying low. If he could be had for nothing in a waiver claim or if he was a FA after this season and could be signed for just a couple million or something, sure, go for it.

[804Sox]

Kazmir was one of my favorite players back when he was dominant and the Rays were harmless. As someone who has followed him, he is NOT the same pitcher. at all. the injuries have taken their toll.

[thebruce44]

Show me where Parra/Narverson put up four consecutive seasons of sub 4.00 eras and the year where they lead the league in strikeouts

 

By that logic we should be trading for Ted William's frozen corpse this offseason.

 

Kazmir definitely isn't the same pitcher. However he does have a history with Peterson, who has been able to get him back on track before. He could be a reclamation project down the line, but not if we have to give anything up for him in a trade or if we have to pay that salary.

[LouisEly]

I mentioned Kazmir in a post a while back; a good buy-low candidate but with the same thought as others - only if the Brewers are on the hook for no more than $6M next year. Or if the Angels take Wolf in return. A good risk, but not worth $12+M.

 

As I posted in the other thread, the Angels are committed to $45M plus whatever raise Weaver gets in arbitration just to starting pitching alone next year. They would love to move Kazmir, but if they can't they might have to move Piniero or even Santana. The Angels are on the hook for at least one possibly two years with Abreu at $9M. Scot Shields and Hideki Matsui will be free agents, and Fuentes is unlikely to get to 55 GF for his 2011 option to vest, so they can clear $20M in payroll there. But the may need to clear more depending on what Weaver gets in arbitration.

 

Wolf for Kazmir might be an interesting deal. Brewers get higher upside and shorter deal, Angels get a more consistent and healthier pitcher and save $2.5M next year. The Brewers will likely have Rivas, Rogers, Butler, and possibly Fiers and Lamontagne as potential AAA starters next year to call up if Kazmir goes down, so depth shouldn't be an issue.

[HiAndTight]

I think we seriously are over-valuing our players right now. Players that will not be here beyond 2011 have no value in 2012 to the Brewers.

 

Scott Kazmir's about the best candidate to go from "Shoulder Fatigue" to "Getting an MRI" to "Just a mild strain discovered" to "Labrum surgery and future in doubt" right now.

 

I think you're seriously over-valuing Scott Kazmir. He's got negative value right now, so it has nothing to do with our players value in this thread. It's all about Kazmir's value.

[GAME05]

how does Kazmir have a better upside than Wolf? i would think of the two, Wolf has a far better chance of bouncing back and having a better year in 2011.