How would you go for it next year?

[Principessa21]

I'm sure Cliff Lee has no desire to play in MIL, never mind others will outbid the Crew. It's not the $20M a year that is a killer, it's the 5-7 year length, risk of injury, and the like.

Exactly. I still say the Yankees will be after him with a vengeance. There will be no way the Brewers can or should beat any offer the Yankees will be able to make.

Supposedly Cashman is going after Lee the same way he went after Sabathia (make him #1 priority and outbid everyone), and Sabathia said after the Lee trade, and I'm paraphrasing, that he we all know he will be a Yankee next year. I don't know if this will happen, but I also didn't think the Yankees would sign Sabathia.

[JohnBriggs12]

I think we need to drop the Cliff Lee talk. I don't think we can afford to spend that much money on one guy. We need to focus on what the problem is, which is a lack of good, cheap starting pitching. Make whatever trade you need to do to acquire two young, high ceiling prospects. Moving Prince should bring one in return. If you have to trade Lawrie or Gamel to get the other, you do it. Personally I would target Pineda from Seattle. Jack Z. probably has a thing for some of the Brewers prospects since he drafted a lot of them, and I thought I heard Seattle needs offense. It's a match made in heaven. Pineda for Lawrie and maybe a throw-in. That would be a huge step in the right direction.

 

I'd also like to see Rickie Weeks extended and batting second next season behind Lorenzo Cain.

Getting talented major league ready young pitching for just hitters, either established or prospects is problematic. You are limited to teams desperate for offense or with such an abundance of young pitching that some are blocked. Very few teams are desperate for offense at 1B. There are solid major league FA bats available that a team like Seattle that isn't all the deep in pitching talent doesn't have to give up it's one near major league ready pitcher. The few teams with an abundance have been mentioned on here many times. Texas is the one that stands out. TB has them too, but no money to pay Fielder.

[Never Outhustled]

We also saw comments on how the Suppan deal wouldn't hurt us much because we would have young cost controlled guys coning up.

 

Suppan the pitcher hurt us because he sucked, but when did his contract hold us back? We never lost one of our own because we couldn't afford them, and the Brewers have been very active in free agency the last 2 years. They signed $19 millions worth of new free agents (Wolf, Davis, Hawkins, Zaun) this year alone. Doesn't sound like a team that is struggling with a tight budget. Now, that $19 million has produced replacement level production, which tells me we'd be better off signing 1 great player instead of 4 scrubs.

 

 

 

Also, it's not spending $20-25 million on Lee next year that will be the problem. It's potentially spending that much on him in 3-5 years, when he will be well into his mid 30's, that is (turns 32 at the end of this month). You already know that, though.

I understand that concern, and thats why I didn't want to sign Sebathia (along with CC's weight issues). However, I'm less concerned with Lee because he's not a power pitcher, and he actually seems to be getting better with age. His 14/1 K/BB rate this year is absolutely amazing. I don't see this guy suddenly losing it, and we could still be a contender at the end of his deal if he regresses to a 2-3 WAR pitcher.

[MJLiverock]

Attanasio said in a recent interview that the team will lose money this year. With the team being more than one pitcher away from being a serious contender next year I think it is realistic to expect some payroll contraction next year.

 

I do agree it is foolish to waste $20-$30 million a year on 3 or 4 replacement or just above guys. That is probably my biggest beef with Melvin. Squandering $5 million here and there on multi year deals for middling bullpen guys and back of the rotation guys when similar production was available in house. Then being willing to spend $10+ million on a guy like Wolf but not $15 million to get a guy who is truly above average or good.

 

Or if the FA market isn't good then I would rather they just wait until next year when a better fit or better player is available rather than just spending the money to spend the money. I don't see how they will be a contender next year by adding one player. No pitcher on the cusp of the majors in the system now is going to be more than a back of the rotation guy. A young guy fe a Fielder trade will not immediately be a #2 starter or ready to throw 180+ innings.

[endaround]

Attanasio also said they were going to lose money last year up until they revealed they made another 7 figure profit. The Brewers have been very profitable as a baseball team.

[RockCoCougars]

First of all, I wouldn't touch Cliff Lee with a 10 foot pole for 20 plus million dollars per. He's had three awesome seasons in a row, but nearly pitched himself out of the Indians rotation before that, plus he's going to be 33 next year. I think a young ace or solid #2 type pitcher needs to be targeted through a trade, Greinke, Cain and Garza are all possibilities. Felix Hernandez may be a pipe dream, but it doesn't hurt to try.

[MJLiverock]

Attendance is down 9% this year and merchandise sales are also likely down. I don't know that I would count on another million dollar rabbit out of the hat. Attendance next year likely won't be a whole lot better

[HiAndTight]

Attanasio also said they were going to lose money last year up until they revealed they made another 7 figure profit. The Brewers have been very profitable as a baseball team.

Exactly, I'm simply not buying that they're going to lose money this year.

 

He ALSO said that we were going to lose money the year we traded for Sabathia.

 

Now I wouldn't be shocked if we didn't MAKE a lot of money this year, but I don't buy they're losing a ton. Now when you include the Brewers new TV deal, that will be a nice new source of income.

[HiAndTight]

Like I said, you should probably factor in 7-8 mil for next year, since what ever team trades for Prince is going to demand this.

I don't understand why you think any team trading for Prince would "demand" 7-8 million dollars. We're not talking about trying to dump a bad contract, we're talking about one of the premier power hitters in the game who would have a ONE year deal.

 

Not to mention, we'd likely trade him prior to arbitration, so there wouldn't be the cost certainty to work with.

 

Now paying half his salary, or roughly half his salary could certainly help net a bigger return, particularly if we're talking about trading him to the Rays...which is where I'd suggest, but I would say most teams that would be interested in getting him would obviously be teams that stand to be very competitive next season and would be able/willing to take on his salary.

 

 

Anyway;

For starters, I'd obviously Fire Macha. Not because I think he's been particularly bad, I believe there's very little variation between managers, but I'd like to see someone a little more excitable. Nothing more than a chance of pace. Bobby Valentine would be a very good choice IMO.

 

Trade #1-Prince+McGehee+Kentrail Davis+8 million to Tampa Bay for Matt Garza+Matthew Moore

*This may be a bit ambitious, but it would certainly be a big leap to focusing on starting pitching and defense. If the Rays balk at the idea of trading Moore, McGee or Colome would be serviceable second choices.

#2-Sign Garza to an extension. 4 years 32 million with 2 team option/vesting options for 13 million in '15 and 15 in '16. 3 million buyout in '15, 2.5 in '16 for a total guaranteed value of 4 years 37.5 and a possible total of 6 years and 60 million.

#3-Sign Weeks to an extension. 5 years 40 million. Longer and probably a bit more than many would prefer, but I'm convinced this Rickie Weeks is the real Rickie Weeks.

#4-Bring Gamel up, have him settle in at 3rd base. Send him to the AZ Fall League to play extensively at 3rd as well. His D appears to have improved enough that he can be average at 3rd in the Big Leagues.

#5-Move Corey Hart to 1B.

#6-Sign Austin Kearns(RF) 2 years 8 Million and Eric Hinske 1 year 3 M. He plays in RF, Brett Lawrie plays both RF and 3B next year in AAA.

#7-Sign Christian Guzman(Utility IF'er) to a 1 year 2.5 million dollar deal.

#8-Sign Henry Blanco to a 1 year 1 million dollar deal. We need a good Defensive catcher as our backup.

#9-Free Agent Pitcher. One of Javier Vazquez 2 years 18 million, Brandon Webb 1 year 8 million with Team Option for 1year 12 million, Brad Penny 1 year 7.5 million. Guys with high upsides to SHORT term contracts that we can handle for this year. Low Risk, HIGH reward. I, like all of you am NOT a fan of the low risk, low reward type deals. The only thing dependable soft tossing, FB innings eaters give you is a high draft pick.

#10-Gomez starts the season in AAA. To be honest, I believe he'd have to accept the assignment, but I'm not certain. I'd try to convince him to accept with the knowledge that he would have a chance to earn his way back up. He's still got the chance to become an exceptionally valuable player, but he's a loooooooong way away from realizing that at the moment.

#11-Sign Rafael Soriano to a 2 year 20 Million dollar contract.

 

 

Now, that's a LOT of signings, but again, aside from Garza and Weeks, they're all 1-2 year deals. Obvious emphasis on DEFENSE and pitching, with more on Defense.

 

Lineup

1-2B Weeks 5.5 M

2-3B *Gamel 450 K

3-LF Braun 3.5 M

4-1B Hart 6 M

5-CF Cain 450 K

6-RF *Hinske/Kearns 3M/4M

7-C Lurcoy 450 K

8-SS Escobar 450 K

Total Cost Lineup= 23.8 M

Bench

*Hinske/Kearns LF/RF *3/4 M

Henry Blanco C 1 M

(SH)Christian Guzman-SS/2B/3B 2.5 M

*Chris Dickerson-OF 450 K

* Joe Inglett-Utility IF/OF 450 K

Total Bench Cost= 4.4 M

Rotation

#1-Yovai Gallardo-3.25 M

#2-Matt Garza- 5 M

#3-Randy Wolf- 9.25 M

#4-FA Pitcher- 8.5 M

#5-Manny Parra- 1 M

Total Rotation Cost= 27 M

Bullpen

CL-Rafael Soriano 10 M

SU-Zach Braddock 450 K

MRP-Carlos Villanueva 1.5 M

MRP-Todd Coffey 1.5 M

MRP-Kameron Loe 450 K

MRP-LaTroy Hawkins 4 M-Starts season on DL

LR-Jeremy Jeffress 450 K

Loogy-Mitch Stetter 450 K

Total Bullpen Cost= 16.25M

 

Total Player Cost 2011=71.45

Total "Dead Money"=4 Million

Total Costs= 77.35 Million

 

Now you have 10-15 million more for;

1-Mid-season trades;

2-Free Agent Negotiations 5 Million. For instance, perhaps Soriano may cost 12 million this year on a one year deal.

3-Mid-Season Callups

 

 

Now obviously the problem here is there are a LOT of moving parts. Rather than the 1 big move to go out and get a Cliff Lee, I went another way and made several smaller moves to address our defense, and lock up a couple younger players.

 

I'd personally stay away from a deal to Cliff Lee for 6-7 years at 25 million, and I agree it'd be better to sign Lee for 25 than Suppan, Riske, Hall, Hoffman and Hawkins for the 41 or whatever it would take. But you seldom get the benefit of hindsight and moving forward I'd rather improve our defense in a few spots, add a couple talented starting pitchers and lock up our young guys than put ALL of our eggs in one basket.

 

Plus this gives us a lot of flexibility when Lawrie, Odorizzi, Covey(4-5 years), Rogers, and the rest of our next wave comes up.

[ramssuperbowl99]

Have we considered taking $10M or so of this money we would be putting into middling free agents in 2011 and instead throwing it all in the draft/IFA market? Imagine if we could go out and get the Wil Myers of 2011. Yeah, it's expensive, but the upside on the back end of deals like that are tremendous. Especially with the talented draft coming up, we could see some awesome bonus babies slip right into our laps.

Like I said, it's tough to make this team a contender without having a video game offseason. Why not bide our time a little bit, so that when we are ready to contend, we are full of homegrown, cheap players with more in the system? The Rays are going to be good for another 6-8 years, not just a few, because they took their time and stacked the system completely before promoting everyone and making a run. Let's use that as our model.

Also, as for the Prince Fielder money situation - if we get much better prospects in return, I'd gladly throw them $8M or whatever. The prospects just have to be worth it.

[dadofandrew]

What will happen is likely this...Prince is dealt for a SP and a prospect, Gamel replacing him offensively. Another SP comes in somehow, FA perhaps. The lineup stays mostly the same, the bench may well include many of the same faces.

 

I think it will be interesting to see where Lawrie ends up. He could be ready mid-2011, which could allow a 2B/3B/OF to be dealt.

[MNBrew]

Arbitration hearings occur in February. Prince wouldn't necessarily have to sign any '11 deal before then, and I'd think if he gets traded, it'd be well before then.

 

I think the notion's totally erroneous that the Brewers would have to send any cash along in a deal involving Prince. You only see cash included when the contracts in question are known entities, and usually overpaid ones at that.

 

You've just gotta figure that any team who'd take on Prince in a trade would have a decent guess as to what they'd have to budget for his 2011 salary -- and may already have moved players or salary in order to make it possible to acquire him.

[HiAndTight]

Have we considered taking $10M or so of this money we would be putting into middling free agents in 2011 and instead throwing it all in the draft/IFA market? Imagine if we could go out and get the Wil Myers of 2011. Yeah, it's expensive, but the upside on the back end of deals like that are tremendous. Especially with the talented draft coming up, we could see some awesome bonus babies slip right into our laps.

Like I said, it's tough to make this team a contender without having a video game offseason. Why not bide our time a little bit, so that when we are ready to contend, we are full of homegrown, cheap players with more in the system? The Rays are going to be good for another 6-8 years, not just a few, because they took their time and stacked the system completely before promoting everyone and making a run. Let's use that as our model.

Also, as for the Prince Fielder money situation - if we get much better prospects in return, I'd gladly throw them $8M or whatever. The prospects just have to be worth it.

 

Well of course most of us on here would probably prefer we go with a 65-70 million dollar payroll the next couple years and throw an extra 10 million at draft picks and international signings. I've been in favor of this for a long time.

 

This is basically a "video game" type thread. No way we're going to be able to get all the players we want, even if we're offering the salaries they want, a great deal of them aren't going to come here.

 

Trades we think are good, ie, the Prince to the Rays trade I suggested may not interest the Rays.

 

To be honest, if I were running this team right now, I don't know if we'd have a 65 million dollar payroll next year. I'd go after the Latin American players like the A's have been, I'd also draft like the Red Sox, grabbing the most talented player regardless of sign-ability.

 

 

But since the thread is "How would you go for it next year", I just played along, like most, despite few actually WANTING to do this.

[Never Outhustled]

For starters, I'd obviously Fire Macha. Not because I think he's been particularly bad, I believe there's very little variation between managers, but I'd like to see someone a little more excitable. Nothing more than a chance of pace. Bobby Valentine would be a very good choice IMO.

 

Trade #1-Prince+McGehee+Kentrail Davis+8 million to Tampa Bay for Matt Garza+Matthew Moore

*This may be a bit ambitious, but it would certainly be a big leap to focusing on starting pitching and defense. If the Rays balk at the idea of trading Moore, McGee or Colome would be serviceable second choices.

#2-Sign Garza to an extension. 4 years 32 million with 2 team option/vesting options for 13 million in '15 and 15 in '16. 3 million buyout in '15, 2.5 in '16 for a total guaranteed value of 4 years 37.5 and a possible total of 6 years and 60 million.

#3-Sign Weeks to an extension. 5 years 40 million. Longer and probably a bit more than many would prefer, but I'm convinced this Rickie Weeks is the real Rickie Weeks.

#4-Bring Gamel up, have him settle in at 3rd base. Send him to the AZ Fall League to play extensively at 3rd as well. His D appears to have improved enough that he can be average at 3rd in the Big Leagues.

#5-Move Corey Hart to 1B.

#6-Sign Austin Kearns(RF) 2 years 8 Million and Eric Hinske 1 year 3 M. He plays in RF, Brett Lawrie plays both RF and 3B next year in AAA.

#7-Sign Christian Guzman(Utility IF'er) to a 1 year 2.5 million dollar deal.

#8-Sign Henry Blanco to a 1 year 1 million dollar deal. We need a good Defensive catcher as our backup.

#9-Free Agent Pitcher. One of Javier Vazquez 2 years 18 million, Brandon Webb 1 year 8 million with Team Option for 1year 12 million, Brad Penny 1 year 7.5 million. Guys with high upsides to SHORT term contracts that we can handle for this year. Low Risk, HIGH reward. I, like all of you am NOT a fan of the low risk, low reward type deals. The only thing dependable soft tossing, FB innings eaters give you is a high draft pick.

#10-Gomez starts the season in AAA. To be honest, I believe he'd have to accept the assignment, but I'm not certain. I'd try to convince him to accept with the knowledge that he would have a chance to earn his way back up. He's still got the chance to become an exceptionally valuable player, but he's a loooooooong way away from realizing that at the moment.

#11-Sign Rafael Soriano to a 2 year 20 Million dollar contract.

 

 

Now, that's a LOT of signings, but again, aside from Garza and Weeks, they're all 1-2 year deals. Obvious emphasis on DEFENSE and pitching, with more on Defense.

 

Lineup

1-2B Weeks 5.5 M

2-3B *Gamel 450 K

3-LF Braun 3.5 M

4-1B Hart 6 M

5-CF Cain 450 K

6-RF *Hinske/Kearns 3M/4M

7-C Lurcoy 450 K

8-SS Escobar 450 K

Total Cost Lineup= 23.8 M

Bench

*Hinske/Kearns LF/RF *3/4 M

Henry Blanco C 1 M

(SH)Christian Guzman-SS/2B/3B 2.5 M

*Chris Dickerson-OF 450 K

* Joe Inglett-Utility IF/OF 450 K

Total Bench Cost= 4.4 M

Rotation

#1-Yovai Gallardo-3.25 M

#2-Matt Garza- 5 M

#3-Randy Wolf- 9.25 M

#4-FA Pitcher- 8.5 M

#5-Manny Parra- 1 M

Total Rotation Cost= 27 M

Bullpen

CL-Rafael Soriano 10 M

SU-Zach Braddock 450 K

MRP-Carlos Villanueva 1.5 M

MRP-Todd Coffey 1.5 M

MRP-Kameron Loe 450 K

MRP-LaTroy Hawkins 4 M-Starts season on DL

LR-Jeremy Jeffress 450 K

Loogy-Mitch Stetter 450 K

Total Bullpen Cost= 16.25M

 

Total Player Cost 2011=71.45

Total "Dead Money"=4 Million

Total Costs= 77.35 Million

 

Now you have 10-15 million more for;

1-Mid-season trades;

2-Free Agent Negotiations 5 Million. For instance, perhaps Soriano may cost 12 million this year on a one year deal.

3-Mid-Season Callups

 

 

Now obviously the problem here is there are a LOT of moving parts. Rather than the 1 big move to go out and get a Cliff Lee, I went another way and made several smaller moves to address our defense, and lock up a couple younger players.

 

I'd personally stay away from a deal to Cliff Lee for 6-7 years at 25 million, and I agree it'd be better to sign Lee for 25 than Suppan, Riske, Hall, Hoffman and Hawkins for the 41 or whatever it would take. But you seldom get the benefit of hindsight and moving forward I'd rather improve our defense in a few spots, add a couple talented starting pitchers and lock up our young guys than put ALL of our eggs in one basket.

 

Plus this gives us a lot of flexibility when Lawrie, Odorizzi, Covey(4-5 years), Rogers, and the rest of our next wave comes up.

 

How did you get Braun, Gallardo, Hart, and Hawkins to take pay cuts?

 

Why are we paying big money on a closer if we're not really going for it, why are we signing lottery tickets like Webb and Penny when for only a little more we could get someone healthy and productive, and what happened to John Axford?

 

I like the addition of Henry Blanco, he's the most underrated player in baseball.

 

I don't mean to be too critical, as I do like the overall direction. It shows how easily this team can be improved, because it has boatloads of cash to spend, a surplus of position players, and the team improves quickly when you replace its replacement level pitchers and CF.

[HiAndTight]

How did you get Braun, Gallardo, Hart, and Hawkins to take pay cuts?

 

Why are we paying big money on a closer if we're not really going for it, why are we signing lottery tickets like Webb and Penny when for only a little more we could get someone healthy and productive, and what happened to John Axford?

 

I like the addition of Henry Blanco, he's the most underrated player in baseball.

 

I don't mean to be too critical, as I do like the overall direction. It shows how easily this team can be improved, because it has boatloads of cash to spend, a surplus of position players, and the team improves quickly when you replace its replacement level pitchers and CF.

I'm not signing Webb AND Penny, those were 2 of the 3 suggestions for the final spot along with Vazquez to go into the back of our rotation.

 

2nd, what do you mean "if we're not really going for it"? We are in this scenario, which is why we signed a closer. What happened to Axford was a I meant to include him in the TB trade as I believe he's got all the makings of another Turnbow. I accidentally omitted that.

 

3rd, what IS Hawkins making next year? I thought he was making 4 million? He signed a 2 year deal for 7.5 and is making 3.5 this year.

Gallardo's due to make 3.5 million next year based on what I read, so he's not making an upgrade either.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5067405

 

As for Braun and Hart, I was using the numbers others had them at.

[Never Outhustled]

3rd, what IS Hawkins making next year? I thought he was making 4 million? He signed a 2 year deal for 7.5 and is making 3.5 this year.

Gallardo's due to make 3.5 million next year based on what I read, so he's not making an upgrade either.

Sorry, I meant Wolf. Him and Gallardo make .25 more each, Braun .5, and Hart .8 more.

 

Fielder, McGehee, Axford, Kentrail Davis, and $8 million for Garza and Moore is seriously over-paying.

 

 

I like your addition of Kearns as a platoon guy as part of your commitment to defense. That aspect of his game goes underappreciated. However, if we want more D, shouldn't he platoon with Dickerson?

[HiAndTight]

Sorry, I meant Wolf. Him and Gallardo make .25 more each, Braun .5, and Hart .8 more.

 

Fielder, McGehee, Axford, Kentrail Davis, and $8 million for Garza and Moore is seriously over-paying.

 

 

I like your addition of Kearns as a platoon guy as part of your commitment to defense. That aspect of his game goes underappreciated. However, if we want more D, shouldn't he platoon with Dickerson?

Alright, with Wolf and Yo, those are different numbers than I've seen, and with Braun I see I was off, and Hart I thought is 6.5 next year. Either way, obviously I'm not expecting them to take paycuts, just a couple oversights.

We're talking about pennies relative to the actual roster.

 

2nd, yes, he should platoon with Dickerson. To be perfectly honest, I flat out forgot about him when I was making out my roster, and only when I got to the bench did I remember him. I would consider bringing in Hinske however, but Dickerson would be a MUCH better addition. In fact, I was perusing the FA list trying to find a good defensive Left handed bat who can play D in RF and get on base. And....he's already on our roster and cheap.

 

Fielder, McGehee, Axford, Kentrail Davis, and $8 million for Garza and Moore is seriously over-paying.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree here. Moore's a incredible young prospect, and to be honest, if one team were to decline this trade, I think it'd be the Rays. For a young, power lefty who's struck out 12.8 thus far in his minor league career, can hit 96 and sits in the 92-95 range, and has three legit pitches, you're going to have to pay through the nose.

Now when you add in Garza, an established, sub 4.00 ERA in the AL East, despite his gaudy K numbers, he's obviously still valuable.

 

To be honest, I think the Rays would would just as likely demand less players and Prince+Lawrie+money for this deal.

[Never Outhustled]

Trade #1-Prince+McGehee+(Axford)+Kentrail Davis+8 million to Tampa Bay for Matt Garza+Matthew Moore

*This may be a bit ambitious, but it would certainly be a big leap to focusing on starting pitching and defense. If the Rays balk at the idea of trading Moore, McGee or Colome would be serviceable second choices.

Total Player Cost 2011=71.45

Total "Dead Money"=4 Million

Total Costs= 77.35 Million

 

Now you have 10-15 million more for;

1-Mid-season trades;

2-Free Agent Negotiations 5 Million. For instance, perhaps Soriano may cost 12 million this year on a one year deal.

3-Mid-Season Callups

 

 

 

Don't you still need to account for the $8 million you sent to Tampa?

 

I guess I should put my "going for it" plan out there, just to be fair to you.

 

-Fielder to Texas for LHP Dereck Holland, RHP Brandon McCarthy, and RHRP Pedro Strop

-McGehee, Kottaras and Carlos Gomez to Florida for RHP Ricky Nolasco (Florida's annual budget cutting trade)

-Eric Farris to Baltimore for 3B/OF/C Jake Fox (Fox gives the Brewers a righty swinging option to Gamel at 3B, an emergency 3rd catcher, and RH PH, Farris is rule 5 eligible, but the Brewers have no room for him on the 40 or at AAA with Lawrie moving up, though Lawrie also plays 3B.)

-Sign LHP Cliff Lee 5yr/125 M

-Sign Henry Blanco 1M

-Sign OF Reed Johnson 1M ( I sign Johnson instead of Kearns because he's a better fit to platoon. Kearns is equal against lefties and righties, whereas Johnson kills lefties, he's had an OPS over 900 against them 3 of the last 4 years.)

 

1-2B Weeks 5.5 M

2-3B *Gamel 450 K

3-LF Braun 4 M

4-1B Hart 6.8 M

5-CF Cain 450 K

6-RF *Dickerson/Johnson 450 K/1M

7-C Lurcoy 450 K

8-SS Escobar 450 K

Total Cost Lineup= 19.55 M

Bench

*Dickerson/Johnson LF/RF

Henry Blanco C 1 M

Craig Counsel 2 M

-Jake Fox 3B/OF/C 450 K

* Joe Inglett-Utility IF/OF 450 K

Total Bench Cost= 3.9 M

Rotation

#1-Cliff Lee- 25 M

#2-Yovai Gallardo-3.5 M

#3-Dereck Holland-450 K

#4-Ricky Nolasco- 5 M

#5-Randy Wolf- 9.5 M

 

Total Rotation Cost= 43.45 M

Bullpen

CL-John Axford 450K

SU-Zach Braddock 450 K

MRP-Todd Coffey 2.25 M

MRP-Kameron Loe 450 K

MRP-Pedro Strop 450K

MRP-LaTroy Hawkins 4 M-Starts season on DL

MRP/6th starter-Brandon McCarthy 1.5 M

MRP/7th starter-Manny Parra 1 M

 

Total Bullpen Cost= 9 M

 

Total Player Cost 2011=75.9

Total "Dead Money"=4 Million

Total Costs= 79.9 Million

 

 

I'm well under budget, and have tons of room in future years to extent Weeks and anyone else who earns an extension. I can still add another very expensive player, preferably on a short term deal. I actually have room to add Javier Vazquez or Tim Hudson, which would put Wolf in the pen. In 2012, they'll have raises for Braun, Gallardo, Hart, and Weeks, but we have Hawkins and option buyouts coming off the books eliminating $8 million. By spending our money in 1 place, I eliminate the annual option buyouts that symbolize the Melvin era.

[HiAndTight]

1-2B Weeks 5.5 M

2-3B *Gamel 450 K

3-LF Braun 4 M

4-1B Hart 6.8 M

5-CF Cain 450 K

6-RF *Dickerson/Johnson 450 K/1M

7-C Lurcoy 450 K

8-SS Escobar 450 K

Total Cost Lineup= 19.55 M

Bench

*Dickerson/Johnson LF/RF

Henry Blanco C 1 M

Craig Counsel 2 M

-Jake Fox 3B/OF/C 450 K

* Joe Inglett-Utility IF/OF 450 K

Total Bench Cost= 3.9 M

Rotation

#1-Cliff Lee- 25 M

#2-Yovai Gallardo-3.5 M

#3-Dereck Holland-450 K

#4-Ricky Nolasco- 5 M

#5-Randy Wolf- 9.5 M

 

Total Rotation Cost= 43.45 M

Bullpen

CL-John Axford 450K

SU-Zach Braddock 450 K

MRP-Todd Coffey 2.25 M

MRP-Kameron Loe 450 K

MRP-Pedro Strop 450K

MRP-LaTroy Hawkins 4 M-Starts season on DL

MRP/6th starter-Brandon McCarthy 1.5 M

MRP/7th starter-Manny Parra 1 M

 

Total Bullpen Cost= 9 M

 

Total Player Cost 2011=75.9

Total "Dead Money"=4 Million

Total Costs= 79.9 Million

 

 

I'm well under budget, and have tons of room in future years to extent Weeks and anyone else who earns an extension. I can still add another very expensive player, preferably on a short term deal. I actually have room to add Javier Vazquez or Tim Hudson, which would put Wolf in the pen. In 2012, they'll have raises for Braun, Gallardo, Hart, and Weeks, but we have Hawkins and option buyouts coming off the books eliminating $8 million. By spending our money in 1 place, I eliminate the annual option buyouts that symbolize the Melvin era.

Don't you still need to account for the $8 million you sent to Tampa?

 

Yes, and to be honest, this was something that was done in about 10 minutes, so there are flaws, and it's really only a rough draft and a general idea of what I THINK would be the best way to go next season and one that I legitimately would give us a chance to win.

 

I suppose a couple changes would be;

Scratch Hinkse=save 3 million.

Kearns I think we could get for 2.5 million actually, so that'd be about 4.5 million.

-Fielder to Texas for LHP Derek Holland, RHP Brandon McCarthy, and RHRP Pedro Strop

 

I like this a little bit. To be honest, I'd almost prefer to put Prince in a bigger trade so we could get maybe someone who's got a bit of a higher ceiling, but all things considered, a good, and pretty equitable deal. McCarthy's value has plummeted, so this is a good time to snap him out, Holland has had some ugly shoulder problems in the past, and I think there is a chance there he could have something serious going on there.

 

 

 

But hey, again, address the SP'ing in a BIG way, and you make a couple additions to the Defense. To be honest though, I'd focus more on the defense and the depth of the team and aim a big lower on the starting pitching. Nolasco is alright, try to pry Andrew Miller out of there with him, and give up a Kings ransom for Matt Garza AND-AND-Matthew Moore. People tend for forget just how good HE is. He'll likely end up the better of two.

 

In fact, in 2' years we could easily see a rotation of;

1-Moore

2-Gallrdo

3-Garza

4-Odorizzi

5-Rivas

 

With Moore leading the staff as the ace. He's THAT good.

-McGehee, Kottaras and Carlos Gomez to Florida for RHP Ricky Nolasco (Florida's annual budget cutting trade)

 

LOVE the idea, but I can't see this being enough to get Nolasco. I don't mean to pick about your trades, just as you didn't mean to pick apart mine but rather point out some possible issues and question a couple things.

 

I think Nolasco's going to be a pretty highly sought after commodity this off-season IMO.

 

ERA/FIP/FIPx

2009-.506/.335/.328 K/9 9.46 BB/9 2.14 BABIP-.336

2010- 4.33/3.98/3.56 K/9 8.30 BB/9 1.74 BABIP-.331

 

That's a pitcher who should very easily post 3.50-3.75-ish ERA's and be that viable #3 starter we need.

 

So I love that move. I just don't think Gomez and Kottaras are going to interest the Marlins very much at all. McGehee should interest them a bit, but they've also got Matt Dominguez on his way up who's a fantastic defensive 3rd basemen defensively and who's offense is coming around a bit. As a 20 year old in AA .229/.329/.408 with a .737 OPS, so he's not a sure fire thing, but still, a viable option.

I suppose they could bring in McGehee to play right now and then turn around and deal him again in 2-3 years when he starts making more money and get back a couple prospects then.

 

I think though for Nolasco it'd have to be something more like McGehee+Axford for Nolasco+Andrew Miller(yes, I'm all over Andrew Miller's pure stuff) would be a little closer.

 

But I absolutely love the idea of getting Nolasco.

-Eric Farris to Baltimore for 3B/OF/C Jake Fox (Fox gives the Brewers a

righty swinging option to Gamel at 3B, an emergency 3rd catcher,

and RH PH, Farris is rule 5 eligible, but the Brewers have no room for

him on the 40 or at AAA with Lawrie moving up, though Lawrie also plays

3B.)

 

I like Farris quite a bit actually, and I think he quite desperately needs to start taking some GB's at 3rd, SS, as well as some fly balls in the OF if he truly wants a spot on this team as a utility player, a spot that I truly think he could thrive. He's showing us he's a legit prospect this year(not a great one, but a guy who is showing without a doubt he can play in the big leagues).

 

I can see your choice of Fox for Farris however, even despite not agreeing with it. I DO think that the Brewers could make room on the 40 ma without any real trouble. But if Farris can't prove he can play elsewhere, there's little to no reason to keep him around with Weeks, Lawrie, Green, Counsell, Luis Cruz, as well as several others who can play 2nd base.

 

I'm glad to see someone finally penciling in Gamel at 3rd base however.

-Sign LHP Cliff Lee 5yr/125 M

 

Respectfully, this is where I vehemently disagree. Cliff Lee will almost certainly get offered more by the Yankee's as they appear to be rather obsessed with adding him, so much to the point where one of their top execs announced to the team they just acquired the best pitcher in the game and they WILL sign him to a long term contract. I also worry that we're going to sign a 32 year old pitcher to a 6-7 year deal(as I think that's at least what the Yanks will be willing to go)

But he is amazing.

He's pitched at least 7 IP 18 times this year, 8 IP's 15 times this year, 7 Complete games, and in his two "blow up's", he's gotten into the 7th each time, going 6 1/3rd giving up 4 ER's and 7 ER's respectively.

 

That's just...amazing. But I don't think paying a guy who'll be 37 by the end of the contract is a fiscally responsible way to go,and I don't think it'll be as much.

 

HOWEVER-I think of all the pitchers in the game right now I'd feel comfortable giving that kind of money to, my list goes;

1A-Strasburg

1B-Cliff Lee

 

But I simply don't think we can afford that type of money. Difference of opinion obviously, but I'd feel so much better spending 10 million on Raffy Soriano as our closer, 4 million on Austin Kearns in RF, 1 million on Henry Blanco, 2 million on Christian Guzman, and 6 million on Matt Garza next season, and then have some additional money to throw to the Rays in an attempt to snatch one of their top pitching prospects as well. They may well be a team that would be willing take back 10 million and give us a good prospect in return.

 

Or hell, how about the Marlins? Throw in a few million dollars along with a lesser package and getting Nolasco is far more feasible.

-Sign Henry Blanco 1M

 

Man you're a helluva smart guy. Henry Blanco for a million dollars! LOL...what's the saying, great minds?

 

-Sign OF Reed Johnson 1M ( I sign Johnson instead of Kearns because

he's a better fit to platoon. Kearns is equal against lefties and

righties, whereas Johnson kills lefties, he's had an OPS over 900

against them 3 of the last 4 years.)

That's certainly not a bad option, but the difference TO ME is that Kearns is a vastly superior defensive OF'er accounting for about 55 runs saved above average, and in about the same time span Johnson has accounted for roughly 20. Kearns has a much stronger arm as well, and while Johnson has a ISO SLG pct of merely .098 this season, and an OPS this year of .713 and .753 for his career while Kearns is about .169 for his career and an OPS of .781 this year and .780 for his career.

 

Just to be PERFECTLY clear, I think every idea you had was a sound one and addresses the issues that need to be addressed. You revamp our rotation and you do so in a huge, ready-for-the-playoffs-now type huge, and one that keeps our incredible rotation in position for a couple years.

 

This is a fun discussion and really I'm just trying to debate a couple of these moves with you, not trying to be critical of them as each and every one makes this team much better and none, other than the Lee one IMO is unrealistic.

 

I would say though, we both have the same idea's.

1-Improve our Defense. Throwing Dickerson and Kearns in RF and Hart to 1B improves our D exponentially just right there.

Henry Blanco behind the plate is a great idea to help and take some pressure off Lucroy and it would be huge to learn from a guy like that.

 

2-Our pitching

You add arguably THEE best pitcher in the game of baseball right now, and a guy whom you can hand the ball to and tell your BP to take a rest, another in Nolasco who appears with his peripherals to be on the verge of busting out and becoming a top 10 pitcher in the game, and a guy in Holland who

[nate82]

Another go around with this and this would be completely 100% fantasy video game trade mode:

 

Prince, Coffey, and Gomez plus $9m (or half of Prince's salary whichever is greater) to the Rays for Garza, Upton, and Colome.

Extend Garza at 5-years at $50m (I believe that buys out 2-years of free agency for Garza) that would be 2011 at $6m, 2012 at $8m, 2013 at $10m, 2014 at $12, and a team option for 2015 at $14m.

 

Sign Dunn to a 4-year $60m contract.

 

Trade McGehee and Villanueva to the Braves for J.J. Hoover and Cody Johnson.

 

Starting Lineup:

 

1. Weeks 2B

2. Gamel 3B

3. Braun LF

4. Dunn 1B

5. Hart RF

6. Cain CF

7. Lucroy C

8. Escobar SS

9. Pitcher

 

Rotation: Gallardo, Garza, Wolf, Rivas, Parra

Bullpen: Axford, Hawkins, Braddock, Loe, Stetter, Rogers, and McClendon

 

Bench: Kottaras, Dickerson, Inglett, Farris, and Cruz.

 

I think that puts the Brewers somewhere around $90m. Definitely would be counting on Rivas, Gallardo, and Garza having good years. The bullpen would be rather cheap with Hawkins being the most expensive though. The Brewers also get a #3 or #4 type pitcher in the McGehee trade along with a #1 or an Ace type pitcher in Colome from the Prince trade. In reality I don't think the Rays accept that trade though. I went cheap for the bench and the bullpen because of the money being committed to Dunn and I really do not believe in committing all that much money to the bench.

 

Probably not the greatest team but the Brewers should be rather competitive for the next few years with Gallardo and Garza at the top of the rotation.

[HiAndTight]

Another go around with this and this would be completely 100% fantasy video game trade mode:

I think pretty much all of these are. I do like getting another big LH'ed bat in there to replace Prince. In another year or two, trade Hart, and that could be the best offensive team we've put on the field since Harvey's wallbangers!

[Baldkin]

The more I think about it, the more I want to see this happen:

 

Extend Weeks (4/40ish), sign Adrian Beltre (4/52), trade Fielder and either McGehee or Gamel, whomever gets more pitching.

 

Leaving you with 2 of Hart/Gamel/McGeehee playing 1B and RF, and what might be the best defensive left side of an infield.

[colbyjack]

I agree that signing Beltre would be exciting for both his bat and his glove. However, I've seen others mention that doing so won't be easy since he's coming off of a career year at the plate and is likely going to command top dollars. One thing the Brewers can't compete with is a bidding war. Oh yeah, and that Scott Boras character is his agent.

 

However, if you do pursue Beltre and re-sign Weeks, Lawrie immediately becomes available should the team make a push for a top pitcher via trade (such as Greinke). A projected future Royals infield of Moustakas, Colon, Lawrie and Hosmer is mighty exciting.

 

I've always been a huge Javier Vazquez fan. He's a free agent, has always pitched better in the NL, and also seems to pitch better every other year. Meaning, he's due next year. He's among the active leaders in innings pitched and strikeouts, and has been remarkably durably and consistently throughout his career. He would be my #1 target this offseason.

 

Trade Fielder for another good, young arm and add he and Vazquez to the rotation along with Gallardo and Wolf. Figure out who is your #5 starter between Capuano, Bush, Narveson and Parra, and maybe even Rogers and Jeffress. Capuano is my favorite among that group, since he's proven and continues to get outs doing his thing. Parra probably gets relegated to a relief role. I could see he or Narveson packaged in the Fielder deal to try and help pry away another young arm.

 

Rogers/Jeffress/Rivas will all be at AAA ready to take someone's place due to injury/disappointment.

 

Try to sign a older yet proven bat to provide depth. Someone along the lines of Jim Edmonds, but someone that won't threaten others for playing time. More of a spot starter, pinch hitter and DH to be used during interleague. Melvin Mora comes to mind, but he's probably going to be too pricey since he's having a solid year for the Rockies and probably isn't ready to take a complementary role with a team like the Brewers.

 

I would also re-sign Counsell. His versatility, patience and experience are worth it, even if the Brewers have a cheaper in-house option in Luis Cruz. Re-sign Weeks and have Lawrie take more groundballs at third base next season.

[kramnoj]

One thing the Brewers can't compete with is a bidding war.

 

This isn't really true. The Brewers clearly won a bidding war for Wolf. Now whether the Brewers should win a bidding war is a different question.

 

I don't really know who wants Beltre and who has money to offer to him, but if the Brewers trade Fielder for a cheap starter that is part of the rotation, the Brewers will probably have more money than they can wisely spend.

[colbyjack]

This isn't really true. The Brewers clearly won a bidding war for Wolf.

 

You really call that a bidding war? Beltre is going to get a lot of interest this offseason, and while I liked the addition of Wolf, some argued that the Brewers overpaid to get him last offseason.