Brewers as buyers (with an eye on 2011)

[naivin]

Its pretty clear to me that the Brewers should have an eye on competing next year, regardless of what happens this season. That said, lets just say they knock out 7 of the next 9 or something like that (PIT, WAS, CIN), and get themselves within a couple of .500 and 6-7 back in the division. Are there trades they could make that don't involve shipping out Fielder or Hart, that could potentially help this year, but moreso with an eye on 2011? Are there any pitchers (in particular), Cfers, Catchers, etc.out there that are signed through next year that might be available now? Oswalt and Haren come to mind. Would you be willing to trade guys like Gamel, Parra, Cain, Escobar, etc. in order to get them? I suspect such a deal would be extremely difficult at the deadline, but I do have a sense that the current stretch of games may go pretty well, and the Brewers are likely to find themselves in proverbial no man's land, do nothing and limp to a very nondescript 81-81-ish record and face a very challenging off-season. Such an acquisition could likely help at least make the rest of this year more interesting, and certainly help next year.

[Invader3K]

That's exactly what I don't want them to do. Either go for it (for real), or sell off a couple pieces. Don't play for a .500-ish record.

[paul253]

The Brewers need to understand that they will never compete until they have pitching. So get yourself an ace to pitch with Gallardo, or a couple of young pitchers with high upside. They are actually fairly close (a year or two) away from finally bringing in some of their own pitchers. I think Amaury Rivas will be solid and I still have high hopes for Peralta and Scarpetta. Add in the possibilities of Rogers and Butler as well. The last thing we need to do is trade or sign an average pitcher who had a good one year run. I agree with Invader in that they shouldn't be playing to stay in contention. Either go for it all, or get pieces that can help you win in the future.

[naivin]

Either go for it all, or get pieces that can help you win in the future.

Wouldn't getting a guy like Oswalt do both? Like it or not, the Brewers window is fairly small. One more year before Fielder's departure creates a huge hole. A rotation of Oswalt, Gallardo, Wolf, TBD, and TBD (assuming TBD isn'ta Suppan type), could create a pretty formidable team the remainder of this year and more importantly in 2011. I just don't know where else you are gonna get the pitching needed to go for it all. It certainly isn't gonna come from the minor leagues within the timeframe that guys like Fielder, Hart, Braun, etc. are here (and in the primes of their careers).

[paulmolitor4]

Oswalt might make them a contender, but I don't think he alone would put them over the top. Plus the cost would be far too great. Would you deal Gamel and Odorizzi for Oswalt? Because a package like that is probably what they would ask for. Also I doubt he would approve a trade to the Brewers.

[Baldkin]

Oswalt has very little positive value beyond what his salary is. That makes it very tough for a team like the Brewers to pick him up, as absorbing 35M in salary for 40M in production, (5M net) while trading away what could easily be 50M net in production would be a terrible deal.

 

This is the same reason the Rays aren't really in the Prince Fielder "sweepstakes"

[monty57]

Really, the question comes down to should we retain Hart & Fielder and try to have a really good team next year and watch it fall apart after 2011, or should we trade Hart/Fielder for impact talent which could help us be stronger into the future.

 

I like the second scenario much more than the first. I think we can be competitive next season if we can trade Hart/Fielder for someone who will be in the rotation next year along with other plus prospects, they could still field a good team... potentially better than this year, as they'd have money to fill in holes... and they'd be much better for years to come.

 

Apparently, it is possible to get a Dan Haren, but I just saw a rumor somewhere that the Diamondbacks are looking for a lot of pitching in return. As paulmolitor4 mentioned, it would probably start with something like Gamel & Odorizzi with maybe someone like Rivas included as well. This would help us this year and next year, but depending on what we'd have to give up could really hurt us in the future. I have actually been a proponant of looking at Haren, as he is reasonably priced for (I believe) three years after this one. It just depends on the prospect cost. If it would be Gamel and two so/so pitching prospects, or MLB guys like Narveson/Parra (which I don't see the Diamondbacks looking for) I'd be more willing than if it were Gamel and Odorizzi/Heckathorn -types. I could see Haren being part of a "rebuilding-lite" process if done in conjunction with a the Hart/Fielder trades. In other words, trade some prospects for Haren, and trade Hart/Fielder for prospects (some MLB-ready, some not). We have a much better rotation next year to go along with what should still be a decent offense, all of which should be around for the foreseeable future.

 

I doubt Oswalt is a possibility, as the Astros probably wouldn't trade him to the Brewers, and Oswalt woudln't accept the trade to a team that's not competing this year.

 

If I was 95 and knew my chances of seeing a decent Brewers team were coming to an end, I may like the idea of hurting our future for potential wins next year, but since I'll be a Brewers fan for a long time, I hope we don't sell away our future for a chance to win in 2011. Any moves should be looking at improving our team in 2011 and beyond, not just to make a big shot at it in 2011. Our current roster was below .500 last year and is below .500 now. Adding one pitcher to the mix probably isn't enough to make them serious enough World Series contenders to give up the potential return we could get by trading Hart/Fielder (and Edmonds, Hoffman, Bush, Counsell, etc).

[nate82]

If the Brewers were going to be "buyers" then the best option would be to trade for Haren. With three more years of service with Haren for the Brewers that would give you rotation next year of Haren, Gallardo, Wolf, Parra, Rivas/Butler/Rogers which wouldn't be a bad rotation probably somewhere around average to above average. One of Fielder or Hart would have to be traded in order to fit Haren into the team budget wise. As for getting Haren I believe the Brewers would have to give up Lawrie and one of Scarpetta, Odorizzi, or Jeffress and a PTBNL. I am not sure that would be a good idea to gamble on the future like that. But it could be an intriguing move by Melvin if he did pull that off.

 

I really do not like Oswalt and I believe his age has caught up to him and he really isn't an Ace type pitcher anymore.

[brewmann04]

i sorry but i would not trade Odorizzi think he will be a solid #2 starter.

[endaround]

The Brewers have tons of money and Haren isn't that expensive so no Hart or Fielder need not be traded. Now the Brewers don't have the talent to get Haren.

 

Oswalt has been as good a Gallardo this year.

[nate82]

Now the Brewers don't have the talent to get Haren.

I am not so sure about that. Odorizzi and Lawrie would be a nice package for Haren and I am not sure the Diamondbacks could do much better than that in a trade.

[monty57]

brewmann, therein lies the hitch. We finally have some young arms who could turn into a decent, cheap, homegrown rotation. Other than trading away Hart/Fielder, any move to increase our chances next year would be costly, either in money (offering Lee a $20MM+/year contract) or in prospects, as Arizona would obviously want our better prospects in return for a stud pitcher like Haren.

 

There are two sides to any arguement. Odorizzi/Heckathorn/Rivas, etc could become top of the rotation starters... Haren already is one. In order to get Haren, we'd likely have to give up several "could be's." That's a lot to pay, and could really hurt the franchise. The reason Haren is appealing is the three years remaining on his contract. Essentially, you are looking at three years that are relatively safe to be "top of the rotation quality" vs 12-18 years of potentially good quality, which could turn into nothing, depending on how the prospects progress.

 

I wouldn't buy on Haren if the price tag was too high, but he definitely has his appeal, and could make us a better team now and for the next three years. As I mentioned earlier, I would think Hart and/or Fielder would probably still be traded, even if we get Haren, not only to help money-wise, but also that we don't want to lose Hart, Fielder and Weeks in one season for nothing but draft picks.

 

So... should we go for it now or play for the future? How about a couple of moves that combine to do both. Trade prospects for Haren, trade Hart for Wade Davis/Garza/Minor type that can be in the rotation to start next season, and trade Fielder for a young stud corner OF and a couple high-upside AA guys. Sign Dunn, Berkman, Konerko type as a FA and have a solid Haren, Yo, Davis/Garza/Minor, Wolf, Parra/Rivas/Rogers rotation with an above average offense. Potentially extend Weeks, and have a solid young team that will be together for years.

[endaround]

The DBacks want 2 starting pitchers and bullpen help according to Heyman: http://sportsillustrated..../index.html?eref=writers

 

The Brewers don't have that. Haren looks only to be available if teh DBacks get blown away.

 

The guy I'd love the Brewers to target is Joba Chamberlin. Give the Yankees some actual relievers and Bush and take Chamberlin and have him start.

[nate82]

The DBacks want 2 starting pitchers and bullpen help according to Heyman: http://sportsillustrated..../index.html?eref=writers

 

The Brewers don't have that. Haren looks only to be available if teh DBacks get blown away.

 

The guy I'd love the Brewers to target is Joba Chamberlin. Give the Yankees some actual relievers and Bush and take Chamberlin and have him start.

It doesn't really say two MLB ready starting pitchers though and it maybe pure speculation though that is all that anyone can go on right now for Haren.

 

I don't like Chamberlain at all. I think he is over hyped for a reliever and I don't believe Chamberlain is a starter at all.

[monty57]

We could definitely get Haren if we wanted, but as I mentioned, paying too much for him doesn't make sense. For instance, Gallardo and Braun would do it, but why in the world would we make that trade?

 

I'd have to think an offer consisting of several of our top prospects would at least get the D-Backs attention. The question is "How much of our future would we be willing to give up?" If we trade too much of our "high upside" prospect talent, then we'll be stuck in a few years when we don't have any cheap talent coming in to fill the MLB roster. That's why I would think any trade for Haren would have to be accompanied with trading away some combo of Prince/Hart to add some young talent back into the system.

 

Your point is taken that the D-Backs have a lot of leverage in the trade, as they have Haren signed fairly cheaply for the next few years. They don't have to move him unless they are blown away, and I'm sure we're pretty hesitant to give up too much of our young pitching, so a deal isn't likely to happen. It would be nice to see Yo, Haren and someone like Wade Davis/Matt Garza at the top of our rotation next year to go along with Wolf and Parra/Rivas/Rogers.

[GAME05]

maybe the Brewers send Hart+Bush to the Giants for Bumgarner/Sanchez, and the Brewers send Bumgarner/Sanchez + Rivas to Arizona for Haren. so Hart+Bush+Rivas for Haren? maybe that's not quite enough.

 

i like the idea, though. i could swallow losing some of our prospects if we can assume we'll be getting some back if/when Fielder is traded.

[paul253]

Personally I'd rather have Bumgarner and Rivas than Dan Haren. If we traded Fielder and Hart for Bumgarner and Sanchez, this team would be much better off than they are now.

[Weirdos19]

Pretty sure we'll have to trade for pitching. The Free Agent route hasn't been the best.

 

Hart for Bumgarner- I would have done this as soon as it hit the table. Kershaw like talent with years of control. Do it NOW!

 

Fielder for Niemann and prospects- This may be an offseason deal. The Rays will have money when Crawford and Pena are gone. And it opens up a spot for one of their young studs.

 

Sign Adam Dunn and Carl Crawford. With Hall, Hoffman, Suppan, Fielder, and Hart off the books, we could easily replace the sticks we deal.

[nate82]

Hart for Bumgarner- I would have done this as soon as it hit the table. Kershaw like talent with years of control. Do it NOW!

 

Fielder for Niemann and prospects- This may be an offseason deal. The Rays will have money when Crawford and Pena are gone. And it opens up a spot for one of their young studs.

 

Sign Adam Dunn and Carl Crawford. With Hall, Hoffman, Suppan, Fielder, and Hart off the books, we could easily replace the sticks we deal.

The first trade scenario is not going to happen. Second scenario I would rather get someone better than Niemann unless the the prospects are Colome and another of the Rays good pitching prospects. That last one is going to be very expensive and possibly a franchise killer. Crawford is looking to get Matt Holliday type of money (7 years $120 million) and Adam Dunn looks to get something like 4 years $60-65 million. So you are going to be paying Crawford and Dunn about $17m each next year which is about what Prince would be getting. Not only that but Crawford could get even more with the Yankees eying him for next year. If Fielder isn't with the White Sox next year then they will be looking at Dunn along with the Nationals and a couple of other teams which could get Dunn a bigger contract.

 

Crawford would be the franchise killer here. I'm not sure Crawford's skills will be all that great after year 3 of his contract a lot of Crawford's value is tied into his speed and that will decline as he gets older.

[The Truth]

I'm relatively convinced that Carl Crawford will be a Yankee next season

[nate82]

Would you trade Gamel, Rivas, and Jeffress for Haren?

[The Truth]

Would you trade Gamel, Rivas, and Jeffress for Haren?

No chance. I like the potential of all 3 of those players. Haren will be 30 this September and has a 4.60 ERA and a 1.348 WHIP this season

 

[KCBrewerfan34]

I would do that deal in a second, Gamel looks like he was overrated!! Jeffress is 1 strike away from expulsion isn't he??

[The Truth]

Now that Jeffress is on the 40 man roster, he will likely not be in danger of expulsion. Gamel is starting to rake again in AAA ball, and Rivas has great potential if he can stay healthy.

 

I think Haren has had a great career but he looks like he is on the decline. He could very easily become another Suppan/Wolf type pitcher (i.e. an expensive 4.50 ERA guy)

[dlk9s]

Haren's not happening. He was just traded to the Angels.

 

The Angels have acquired Dan Haren from Arizona in exchange for Joe Saunders, Patrick Corbin, Rafael Rodriguez, and a player to be named later, according to Andrew Baggarly of the Mercury News (via Twitter).

http://www.mlbtraderumors...-trade-joe-saunders.html