Cox and Venters suspended [Latest: Venters suspension dropped]

[danzig6767]

But does it actually make teams think twice, or just let them know you're easy to rile up? There has to be a balance imo, and Macha's approach appears to be as close to 'never hit a batter on purpose' as it gets.

 

A 4-game suspension isn't really that big-time a punishment. I'd like to see far more severe suspensions for cases as obvious as Venters's.

Yea i think it can sometimes make teams or other managers think twice before doing something as ridiculous as the Braves did toward Prince. Now i'm not talking about retaliating every time one of your hitters gets hit because most times i do think a hit batter isn't intentional and responding to that is ridiculous. I'm talking about when another team intentionally throws at one of your better hitters simply because they for whatever reason have a bug up their butt over something they deemed inappropriate. Especially if the pitch is thrown above the waist at your player.

 

If baseball isn't going to consistently take real action in these kind of instances and i'm a manager, i'd want that other team/manager to know that if you pull crap like that and drill hard one of my important players which could cause injury, then you better be willing to except the consequences for that when one of your important hitters steps in the box and the potential harm your decision put that important player in.

 

Like i said before, i'd much prefer MLB started taking a stronger stand on this stuff instead. If they aren't though, you and others are free to believe that it's stupid to retaliate and instead should just suck it up and take the high road, but i wouldn't be that way if i'm managing. The Brewers have a lot of money at stake with guys like Prince/Braun and i simply wouldn't just sit back and let any other team or manager think they can intentionally throw at them whenever they pleased over silly socalled unwritten rules or whatever caused it without any fear that one of their key guys would also soon be facing a hard baseball throw at 90mph would have their name on it.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Like i said before, i'd much prefer MLB started taking a stronger stand on this stuff instead. If they aren't though, you and others are free to believe that it's stupid to retaliate and instead should just suck it up and take the high road, but i wouldn't be that way if i'm managing.

I feel it's stupid to retaliate because *in my opinion* it never 'sends the message'. If it did, wouldn't Larrusa's guys not get hit, ever? Wouldn't Ozzie Guillen's guys not get hit, ever? Retaliation doesn't EVER end with a "you got us and we got you so now we're finished". It usually escalates until 2-3-4 guys are hit, someone's hurt, and a handful of guys are fined and ejected.

 

If someone has empirical proof that retaliation keeps their guys from getting hit in the future, I'd love to hear it, because I honestly don't believe it one bit.

[danzig6767]

Like i said before, i'd much prefer MLB started taking a stronger stand on this stuff instead. If they aren't though, you and others are free to believe that it's stupid to retaliate and instead should just suck it up and take the high road, but i wouldn't be that way if i'm managing.

I feel it's stupid to retaliate because *in my opinion* it never 'sends the message'. If it did, wouldn't Larrusa's guys not get hit, ever? Wouldn't Ozzie Guillen's guys not get hit, ever? Retaliation doesn't EVER end with a "you got us and we got you so now we're finished". It usually escalates until 2-3-4 guys are hit, someone's hurt, and a handful of guys are fined and ejected.

 

If someone has empirical proof that retaliation keeps their guys from getting hit in the future, I'd love to hear it, because I honestly don't believe it one bit.

Come on, why try making your point with such extremes that aren't even remotely realistic?

 

I specifically said instances where i felt it was clear to me that an important player of mine was drilled, not every day hit batters. Even if Tony or Ozzie went out in the media and said they'd have a pitcher drill an opposing hitter in the face for each time one of their batters were hit, some Cardinals or White Sox would get hit because the high majority of hit batters are accidental. Instructing retaliation in those kind of instances i find ridiculous.

 

In the instances though where a manager has pitcher drill a batter like in the case of Prince the against the Braves and similar crap like that happens sometimes during a season, your damn right i'd return in kind unless baseball starts consistently cracking down better on this. If a manager never responds when bush league intentional drillings of their important players happens and if MLB isn't preventing it, what reason would an overly aggressive manager have to even think for a second to not throw at one of our guys? I'm sure you'd rather there weren't i'm angry over something so i'll throw at a top hitter managers out there, but there are, we've all seen it many times. I simply wouldn't let those types feel they can intentionally throw at my hitters with impunity unless taking the high road was rewarded by MLB handing out suspensions. If instead you would just sit there in the dugout each time supposedly taking the high road at intentional drillings, that would be your decision, but i wouldn't appreciate it if i was those players getting drilled.

[TooLiveBrew]

The Dodgers show you how real men take care of business. Two games off the wild card lead? No problem -- just lose your best pitcher for one of his starts. It's not like the Wild Card race could come down to one game or anything. What's more important is that you've shown all of us how manly you are.

[razzzorsharp]

The Dodgers show you how real men take care of business. Two games off the wild card lead? No problem -- just lose your best pitcher for one of his starts. It's not like the Wild Card race could come down to one game or anything. What's more important is that you've shown all of us how manly you are.

Kershaw got suspended for 5 games, so in essence, he will get an extra day off between starts and that is only if he doesn't get his suspension reduced, which it more than likely will anyway.

[RockCoCougars]

The Dodgers show you how real men take care of business. Two games off the wild card lead? No problem -- just lose your best pitcher for one of his starts. It's not like the Wild Card race could come down to one game or anything. What's more important is that you've shown all of us how manly you are.

Kershaw got suspended for 5 games, so in essence, he will get an extra day off between starts and that is only if he doesn't get his suspension reduced, which it more than likely will anyway.

Agreed, suspensions are no big deal for a pitcher. I get a kick out of how some here are so worried about losing one of the relief pitchers to suspension for a few games, yet at the same time, they want to 'sell high' on everyone who is having a good year.

 

Macha can keep taking the 'high road' in cases like this. It doesn't really matter at this point anyway, because he won't be here much longer.

[Thurston Fluff]

Agreed, suspensions are no big deal for a pitcher. I get a kick out of how some here are so worried about losing one of the relief pitchers to suspension for a few games, yet at the same time, they want to 'sell high' on everyone who is having a good year.

 

For the record I am not one of the sell high people. You sell when you have to not when you get the most in return. Prince should be trade regardless of how good a season he's having and Hart should be kept around if he's reasonable in contract negotiations and traded if not. It has nothing to do with how good either are playing it has to do with how valuable they are to us.

 

I do think a 5 game suspension is not good for a pitcher. Sure it give the starter an extra day of rest but the reason they don't routinely get that extra day is because of the burden it puts on the pen. To be fair it should be increased if they really want to put a stop to it. To say, since the penalty isn't severe enough we should resort to the hitting each other for perceived slights, is odd. Years of beaning players have shown that does nothing to stop it either. So why not try something radical like raising the number of games they are suspended for until it is enough to stop the silliness?

 

Kershaw got suspended for 5 games, so in essence, he will get an extra day off between starts and that is only if he doesn't get his suspension reduced, which it more than likely will anyway.

 

Can you come up with a single example of a starting pitcher getting his suspension reduced from 5 games? I doubt it since the whole idea of the 5 game suspension is to make him miss his scheduled start.

 

Even if Tony or Ozzie went out in the media and said they'd have a pitcher drill an opposing hitter in the face for each time one of their batters were hit, some Cardinals or White Sox would get hit because the high majority of hit batters are accidental. Instructing retaliation in those kind of instances i find ridiculous.

 

I think you missed the point. LaRussa is famous for finding reasons for hitting the opponents. He perceives everything as some sort of slight on him and his team thus the need to retaliate. That is the type of thing that only increases when self policing is the norm.

[logan82]

LaRussa is famous for finding reasons for hitting the opponents. He perceives everything as some sort of slight on him and his team thus the need to retaliate. That is the type of thing that only increases when self policing is the norm.

 

Next time throw at LaRussa. Go up to the mound and throw the ball into the dugout. That might stop things. Kind of doubt it though.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Come on, why try making your point with such extremes that aren't even remotely realistic?

How is it extreme or not even remotely realistic? I came up with two 'extreme managers' off the top of my head, who account for 1/16th of the managers in MLB. They're not the only ones, but they're definitely cream of the crop.

 

But I will still stand by my point that I see no realistic reason to believe that IF a manager wants to hit Braun, next time the Padres roll into town, drilling Adrian Gonzalez isn't going to make them NOT do that. I just don't believe that to be true.

 

They hit Braun (on purpose, for instance), so you turn around and drill Gonzalez (about the only Padre worth hitting) and I *do not believe* that it ends there. From there, these things almost always escalate to next level, which results in MORE beanings, more potential injuries, fines, and ejections. And, in the case of something a few posters want to see, maybe even on field brawls.

 

I'm not trying to single out your posts Danzig, I just honestly don't believe a retaliation for a believed 'on purpose' beaning settles the issue. I think in many cases, it makes things worse.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

And what do you know, Venters suspension dropped following his hearing. What a joke.

 

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