Cox and Venters suspended [Latest: Venters suspension dropped]

[hawing]

With this team's history with the Pirates, though, I agree that things could get ugly this week. It doesn't help that the pitching staff is going to be strained with Capuano starting tonight, so it's not like they could spare a pitcher to serve a suspension.

Plus Jeff Karstens is tonight's Pirates starter.

[monty57]

Kameron Loe should be our designated "retaliator." He throws hard and I believe he's a kickboxer in his spare time, so it would be nice to see someone charge the mound on him.

 

Statistically, it may be dumb to retaliate, but Prince has to be fuming that he gets hit on a regular basis, sometimes in very curious situations, and we never do anything about it. Finally, after a seemingly obvious intentional beaning, Macha cries to MLB to do something about it.

 

Now things will boil over against the piddly Pirates and no one outside of Pittsburgh and Milwaukee will even know it happened. The Braves are in 1st place. If they want to start a beaning war with a team out of the playoff hunt simply because they're kicking their butt in a game, then they have to assume the risk of one of their stars getting hit in return. How does beaning a Pirate tell the Braves that they shouldn't hit Fielder again?

[davego]

Remember Ned got caught up in this with the Cards a few years ago and (rightfully so) was mocked here for not keeping his focus on winning the game.

[pingman]

Weeeks, Fielder & Braun have a reputation for leaning over the plate.....they should not be surprised nor upset if they get drilled because it's part of the game

 

This stuff has been going on for 100+ years & it will still be happening 100 years from now....

 

Macha is a joke....now he can add crybaby to his resume

[MJLiverock]

Getting plunked for leaning over the plate is one thing, Weeks gets a fair share of those. The Braves throwing one over Fielder's head and then drilling him in the upper middle of the back was uncalled for and bush league.

 

I'll still disagree that the whole Yost/LaRussa thing years ago mattered. The Brewers hit Pujols at a time in the game when they probably would have intentionally walked him anyway. The fact that the Brewers couldn't get anyone out after that was the problem.

[bjkrautk]

Getting plunked for leaning over the plate is one thing, Weeks gets a fair share of those. The Braves throwing one over Fielder's head and then drilling him in the upper middle of the back was uncalled for and bush league.

That was my takeaway from what Macha is saying. This was the part of the J-S Online story that mattered to me:

Macha believes baseball should take a cue from the National Football League, whose policing system has officials reviewing game tapes weekly to determine if punishment should be doled out regardless of whether a penalty was called or not.

"The NFL is so many miles ahead of us as a sport it's unbelievable," Macha said. "There might not even have been a (penalty) called, but you're fined $20,000 for spearing. They take a look at the evidence and they say, 'We gotta put a stop to this,' then they fine these guys a bunch of money.

"The (MLB) players association should be on board with this because Kirby Puckett's career ended because of this.

"You've got to get rid of this type of stuff.?.?.?. Take a look at the film and hit the guy hard and then that stops, and I don't have to worry about guys yelling at me because I'm protecting my players or not protecting my players. I want to protect my players. If we have a fight, I'm going to be right in the middle of it. That's all there is to it."

 

I have little doubt that the NFL would impose fines for the intentional plunkings of Fielder over the weekend. That the league office tends not to get involved until a brawl (or an ejection after benches are warned) takes place leaves the gray area for retaliation....to say nothing of the first-plunking-is-free nature of warning both benches.

 

On the flip-side, I don't think I would have enjoyed the team cuffing Tommy Hanson around on the diamond as much were it not for his hitting Braun in the last series, and then hitting Fielder immediately after Braun took him deep.

 

[hawing]

This bit from the JS story caught my eye:

and I don't have to worry about guys yelling at me because I'm

protecting my players or not protecting my players.

That would appear to hint at clubhouse discord, or at least tension.

[viaarete]

http://www.talkingchop.co...ox-and-venters-suspended

 

Suspensions for Cox and Venters. Rage from a Braves fan.

 

(edit: fixed link --1992)

[Invader3K]

I feel dumber having read the comments section on that website. At least a couple people called out the other Braves fans for being ridiculous homers.

[CheezWizHed]

Good. I don't like the you-plunked-me-so-I-plunk-you attitude. Sorry, I've grown past 5th grade.

 

I'm glad that MLB can step in and handle it the right way. St. Louis may not think this is classy, but its the right way to do it. Macha just gained a bit of my respect, whether he effected this suspension or not.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

One of the most obvious intentional plunkings in league history. Threw the first one at his head, then in the middle of the back. It's about time MLB stepped in. I guess the Braves fans didn't like Prince's attempted slid of rage into Gonzalez after that either.

 

I thought the reaction of the catcher was the most interesting thing. Prince nodded at him after the first one. I thought the catcher may have said, "Hey don't sweat it we aren't throwing at you." Then he gets nailed in an obvious throw. The catcher put his arms out and looked at Venters in a "What the heck are you doing?" motion. Made me think he was out of the loop on the headhunting...must have come straight from Cox or he went solo.

[Invader3K]

Really, this is better revenge than a retaliatory plunking anyway.

[TooLiveBrew]

I thought the reaction of the catcher was the most interesting thing. Prince nodded at him after the first one. I thought the catcher may have said, "Hey don't sweat it we aren't throwing at you." Then he gets nailed in an obvious throw. The catcher put his arms out and looked at Venters in a "What the heck are you doing?" motion. Made me think he was out of the loop on the headhunting...must have come straight from Cox or he went solo.

 

Good point, SoCal. I remember seeing both Prince nod & McCann throw his arms out to the side(s). That whole situation was just strange.

[Invader3K]

My gut feeling is that Venters went headhunting on his own, and that Cox did not order it.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I went back and looked...the catcher was actually David Ross. He even went over to Prince afterward. It looked like he was apologizing and then had a few words for his pitcher.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?c_id=mlb&content_id=9999627&query=game_pk%3D265164

[Funketown]

Seriously, how can you be surprised about the suspension? The first ball goes over his head, and the second hits him beneath the shoulder blades. Heck, even if it wasn't intentional, it deserves a suspension.

[stalton]

Man, both the article and the comments are so short-sided. Yes I know Biased fans versus polar opposite biased fans, but I'd like to think that looking through non-Brewer glasses that the HBP was clearly intentional and thusly deserving of the suspension. Riske's HBP's both were barely HBP at that and came at times where a HBP actually was undesirable.

[TooLiveBrew]

I went back and looked...the catcher was actually David Ross. He even went over to Prince afterward. It looked like he was apologizing and then had a few words for his pitcher.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?c_id=mlb&content_id=9999627&query=game_pk%3D265164

Whoops, thanks for correcting that SoCal

[RockCoCougars]

But Bill and Brian kept insisting that the first pitch to Prince on Saturday was a 'curve ball'.

 

In all seriousness, if I was Parra, McCann would have been ducking down yesterday- Macha or no Macha. He took his sweet time circling the bases after that Grand Slam and deserved one right between the shoulder blades.

[Point Beer Is Best]

Weeeks, Fielder & Braun have a reputation for leaning over the plate.....they should not be surprised nor upset if they get drilled because it's part of the game

 

This stuff has been going on for 100+ years & it will still be happening 100 years from now....

 

Macha is a joke....now he can add crybaby to his resume

Spoken like a true Braves fan. Fielder's HBP was obvious - except maybe to Cox. Fielder gets drilled then he has the gall to tell Macha "Hey, no hard feelings?" Either he's lying or he has no idea what his players are doing out there. Macha's response to Cox should have been, "Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining."

[DuWayne Steurer]

In my opinion, a suspension is the best response to a clearly intentional beaning here. Nobody needs to retaliate, and again, in my opinion, a suspension is a much stronger message than "if you hit one of ours, we'll hit one of yours".

[True CryM]

Weeeks, Fielder & Braun have a reputation for leaning over the plate.....they should not be surprised nor upset if they get drilled because it's part of the game

 

This stuff has been going on for 100+ years & it will still be happening 100 years from now....

 

Macha is a joke....now he can add crybaby to his resume

 

Please. Yeah, he leaned his head over the plate. And his back. Just because something's been happening for 100+ years, doesn't make it a good thing.

[Fatter than Joey]

I have 2 thoughts about this...

 

1.) Weeks gets plunked a lot. I am beginning to think he has his own gravitational field. I think it is simply part of Weeks's approach. Ironically I think Weeks could set a lot of HBP records -- if he stays healthy. If you look at the Brewers HBP's as a team, I think you need to remove Weeks from the equation, as I seriously doubt that most of his plunkage is message-oriented.

 

2.) To those that think intentionally plunking people is "part of the game" -- I have often asked the following the question, and have never gotten a reasonable answer. "If intentionally plunking batters is part of the game, at what point in a player's development do we instruct them to do it?".

 

My son plays baseball at a very competitive level -- never once has anyone been intentionally plunked. We teach our baserunners to slide hard into bases, we teach our pitchers to pitch inside, we teach our catchers to block the plate -- all these things can cause injury, but we teach them to our youth early on, because they are truly part of the game.

 

At what age or point do you tell your son to throw at a batter? -- Little League? Babe Ruth? High School?

 

Intentionally throwing at batters is not part of baseball anymore than the color line was. Like the color line, intentionally plunking batters is part of human nature, frustration, and emotion.

 

Of course the flip side of the coin, is that batters that intentionally show up a team or a pitcher probably deserve to get plunked -- but showboating isn't "part of the game" either. At some point, I guess I don't know why a grown man has to throw a baseball at someone because they took too long to get around the bases.

[Thurston Fluff]

For the most part I don' t think Weeks or Prince care about getting hit. They know they crowd the plate and doing so means taking one on the elbow or knee on occasion. To them it's part of their success. If they crowd the plate they either have a better chance of hitting the ball or the ball hitting them. Either way they get on base. I think when they get hit intentionally because their team is doing to well and the opponent doesn't like getting beat so badly they do care. This was clearly a case of being mad at getting beat so they did what most true losers do in that situation. Take out their frustrations on a guy who was just doing his job better than they were.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

It's one thing to get plunked because you crowd the plate, and do it with a full plate of armour like Barry Bonds had (or even Prince & Rickie have to a lesser degree). I fully acknowledge the majority of hits that Prince & Rickie have gotten were not intentional. It's also in the pitchers right to try and back a player off if he's trying to garner an unfair advantage by crowding the plate. I would categorize that as part of the game. I'm a little mixed on the body armour too...it could give the hitter an unfair advantage.

 

However, Prince and Braun have each been plunked a few times intentionally for silly baseball code reasons. That has to stop. Venters was so obvious and so silly. Mota hitting Prince last year or Karstens plunking Braun. That's just intentional plain and simple. I think Macha handled it ok too...he basically said if the league doesn't do anything about it, we'll be making a trade for Seth McClung or Prince is going to start decapitating shortstops and the league better watch out. The league handled it, hopefully that's the end of it. I do think Macha should have raised the stink earlier.

 

I will put this out in defense of the Braves venting...Riske hitting Glaus looked intentional enough to me and the Brewers were warned. He probably should have been ejected too. Cox had a legit gripe there...he had no case whatsoever on Venters.