Hot little trade idea bouncing around in my head - Prince & Rickie to the Cubs

[Thundercat32]

This has been bouncing around in my head all day and I just wanna see what some other Brewers fans think of this. If you look at the Cubs needs they have a big hole at 1st base. Derek Lee's contract expires at the end of this year and besides that he's getting a little long in the tooth anyways. Furthermore, the Cubs don't have any 1B prospects in their farm system who are major league ready. They have to do something in the offseason to address their 1st base concerns. They also have to do something to address a woeful offense. For 2010 you spell Cubs D-I-S-A-P-P-O-I-N-T-M-E-N-T. They rank 26th in runs scored, 24th in Runs Batted In, 24th in Strikeout %, 23rd in team OBP%, 22nd in team batting avg, 21st in team SLG%, with a respectable 13th in Home Runs. They need a big bat like Prince's and they need it for years to come. This isn't a team that had a down year, because of injuries. This is a team that had a bad year, because they just aren't very good. They have Ryan Theriot at 2nd base which is just a stop gap measure, his .631 OPS is 3rd worst amongst all major league 2B. Ok, so thats how Prince and Rickie fit, not too mention the Cubs aren't shy about spending money to resign players.

Here's how it works for the Brew Crew. I think we all agree if you're trading Prince or Rickie you have to get some top level pitching prospects in return. The Cubs have two of those that would fit very nicely with the Brewers, Andrew Cashner and Jay Jackson. Both are the Cubbies top 2 arms and Cashner is already in the bigs this season. He's more of a proven commodity having played college baseball at TCU. He was taken 19th overall in 2008 and shot up thru the Cubs minor league system with 2 plus pitches his fastball and slider. Jackson is another college pitcher from the 08 draft who has shot up the ranks with a plus curveball and great control. Both pitchers are on the verge of being able to contribute at the major league level, in Cashner's case he already is as a back end of the bullpen reliever. That alone might be enough for me to do the deal right there, but I think the Cubs are also so eager to get rid of Zambrano, if the Brewers agreed to take him on they'd sweeten the deal. With Suppan off the books and moving Prince and Rickie its a contract the Brewers could easily afford. He's up after the 2012 season, so next year you can see if the change of scenery theory holds true and if not buy him out for '12. I think the Cubs might be willing to part with their top minor prospect OF Brett Jackson in order to just be done with Zambrano as part of the overall package that lands them Fielder and Weeks.

So am I off my rocker here or does this trade make sense to anyone else?

[PrinceEatMeat]

You must be smoking something if you think the Brewers would even entertain the thought of trading Fielder to the Scrubs. Lol.

[jjkoestler]

There is no way Prince and Rickie are delt to the Cubs.

[monty57]

While the Cubs on paper would make a good destination to trade Fielder for the reasons you stated, it's not going to happen. I read your post saying you're from Dallas. Think of the response if the Cowboys traded Romo to the Redskins. Even if you get a good return, the fans would turn on you for trading him to the enemy. For many here, the thought that Fielder may sign with the Cubs when he's a FA is enough to make us vomit, so I'd hate to trade him there and have him beat us up for the next 6-7 years. When / if he's traded, I'd prefer it to be to the American League, but at least it should be out of the NL Central and definitely should not be to the Cubs.

 

Just as some insight to a newer Brewers fan. The Cubs fans may not all hate the Brewers (they hate the Cardinals much more), but nearly all Brewers fans hate the Cubs. I live in Illinois, so I'm constantly surrounded by Cubs fans, making it even worse :-)

[wishicouldhit]

monty57[/b]]For many here, the thought that Fielder may sign with the Cubs when he's a FA is enough to make us vomit, so I'd hate to trade him there and have him beat us up for the next 6-7 years.

If that would happen (lets hope it doesnt), hopefully prince's contract becomes a bust just like Soriano, Zambrano and Ramirez's. Nothing would be more enjoyable then seeing the cubbies get buried even deeper with overpaid under producing contracts! 10yr 200mil!

[Thundercat32]

I'm from Dallas so maybe I don't understand the rivalry very well yet. I think its a bad idea in principle to turn down a better deal just to play keep away from the Cubs. The ultimate goal should be improving your team first and you worry about other teams second. Andrew Cashner, Jay Jackson, Brett Jackson is a haul. You're basically taking 3 of the Cubs top 4 prospects and their top 2 pitching prospects. If you wanna say hey those prospects are bums, then I can appreciate your opinion. Don't trade our guy to the Cubs is an emotional response tho and I have trouble getting on board with those.

 

Bottom line is its very likely we lose Prince and the list of teams that can afford Prince, need Prince, and have top level pitching prospects to deal in return is a very short list. Although I'll keep looking for more possible matches, b/c its fun to play matchmaker!

[paulmolitor4]

I think the key is that you would need a "clearly" better deal from the Cubs than anybody else. With all things being equal, you trade with teams outside your division/league if possible. You don't want to potentially improve a team you play on a regular basis.

[jjkoestler]

The only bigger PR disaster would be trading Uecker to the Cubs for Ron Santo.

[trwi7]

I would do that trade, but it would never happen. Miller Park would be burned to the ground if a fan favorite like Prince was traded to the Cubs.

[Thundercat32]

I think the key is that you would need a "clearly" better deal from the Cubs than anybody else. With all things being equal, you trade with teams outside your division/league if possible. You don't want to potentially improve a team you play on a regular basis.

I completely agree and I understand exactly where you're coming from. I think its yet to be determined if this would be the best package the Brewers could haul in for Prince or if the Cubs would agree to it. I do think its being overlooked, you're not just improving the Cubs with Fielder you're taking away 2 of their top arms, which weakens them and the deal I'm proposing includes their 1st round draft pick from '09 a power hitting Centerfielder with speed. Its a deal that helps them now, but hurts them badly later on. I think you really gotta love Cashner too, that guy looks like he could really be something special.

[Thundercat32]

So Brewers/Cubs is pretty much on par with Yankees/Red Sox? I guess I figured there was a natural rivalry there, but I had no idea it was on that level.

[TooLiveBrew]

It's not at the same level, but in the fans' eyes I think it's not far off. I wouldn't have any inherent problem trading with them, personally, but given comments Melvin has made in the past, I just don't see him ever making that big of a trade with any divisional opponent, let alone the Cubs.

[monty57]

monty57[/b]]For many here, the thought that Fielder may sign with the Cubs when he's a FA is enough to make us vomit, so I'd hate to trade him there and have him beat us up for the next 6-7 years.

If that would happen (lets hope it doesnt), hopefully prince's contract becomes a bust just like Soriano, Zambrano and Ramirez's. Nothing would be more enjoyable then seeing the cubbies get buried even deeper with overpaid under producing contracts! 10yr 200mil!

...and in five years, Prince and Soriano buy the Cubs and move them to the Dominican Republic :-)

 

Thundercat, I agree the team should look to get the best possible return in trade, but it's very uncommon for teams in the same division to make major trades. Especially teams who are developing a rivalry. Wisconsin and Illinois teams have been rivals since the Packers and Bears first donned their jerseys. As I mentioned earlier, many Cubs fans don't think about the Brewers much, as they've been rivals of the Cardinals for about 100 years, but I highly doubt the Brewers would trade Prince to the Cubs unless the offer was much better than any other offer on the table.

 

On top of that, I don't know that the Cubs are going to be in the market to add another huge contract, as they are being crushed by huge contracts to aging players right now. And even though Theriot isn't that good, the delusional Cub fans (I know many of them) think Theriot is the team's best player, and he's a kind of cult hero. I know people who have worked in the Cubs system, and the rumors that they purposely field a team that is just good enough / expensive enough to get fans to the game and maximize profit were all true up to a few years ago (when the team was going up for sale and the White Sox won the World Series). Now, there are new owners in town, so I don't know if they'll revert to the old profit-maximizing ways, but Theriot is the perfect player for them if they are indeed looking to get fans in the stands for a low price.

 

[Thundercat32]

well I won't deny there's an inherent risk trading to a hated divisional rival. I guess I need to look at other teams that make sense for Fielder. On a seperate note, I kinda hate hearing Doug Melvin is down on a deal for Madison Bumgarner that involves Corey Hart. I might be changing my tune on Melvin, depending on how things playout.

 

monty thanks for the insight on the Cubs. It makes sense, one way or another though they're going to have to address 1st base.

[Oldcity]

So Brewers/Cubs is pretty much on par with Yankees/Red Sox? I guess I figured there was a natural rivalry there, but I had no idea it was on that level.

It's more of a rivalry for Brewer fans, not so much for Cubs fans (their rival is St. Louis). I liken it to the Vikings thinking they are the Packers' main rival when it's really the Bears.

[Thundercat32]

Ok here are the only teams that make sense to me to work out a trade for Prince Fielder.

 

Dodgers - Big Market team not afraid to spend money, loads of young arms most notably Chris Withrow, and James Loney who is just kind of a guy. This actually makes some sense for the Brewers too. Everyone other scenario just has us saying good bye to Prince and then the Abbott & Costello routine starts Who's on First? Fielder to LA for Loney + top pitching prospect I could get behind that.

 

Diamondbacks - They broke the bank for Justin Upton not sure they'd want to dip into the reserve for Fielder. They're also top heavy in pitching prospects, it goes Jarrod Parker and then not too much else. You gotta jump in a heart beat to acquire Parker, but I doubt the Dbacks want to part with him, especially if they're rumored to lose Haren. Not to mention they have multiple 1B prospects coming up through their farm system.

 

Giants - Semi-Big Market team in need of hitting and a 1st baseman. But if Doug Melvin isn't on board with Madison Bumgarner or Jonathan Sanchez what other pitching prospects can the Giants offer? Zach Wheeler is about it, but Bumgarner is rated ahead of him by most scouting services.

 

Rockies - Possibly they'd like to swap Prince for Helton and be willing to throw in one of their top level pitching prospects, but I tend to think they're holding on to Tyler Matzek, so does Christain Friedrich strike your fancy?

 

White Sox - They definitely have the need for a 1B, but they're woefully low on pitching prospects the caliber you'd be willing to move Prince Fielder for.

 

Orioles - Not sure they'd spend the money on Fielder. They're also unlikely to deal Matusz, so that leaves you with lower level pitching prospects. tbh I'm not so sure those guys are any better than what the Brewers currently have in their farm system. Not to mention they have a 1B prospect, Brandon Synder coming up through the ranks.

 

Rangers - Bankrupt, and even if they weren't they have a boatload of guys coming free in the next 1-2 years. Josh Hamilton, Ian Kinsler, Colby Lewis, C.J. Wilson, Nelson Cruz, etc. Prince Fielder would be an afterthought.

 

Blue Jays - Overbay is free after this year and they do have top level pitching prospects Kyle Drabek and Zach Stewart. So thats a possibility, but I'm not sure they need more power in that lineup seeing as how they lead the major leagues in HRs, but are 21st in team ERA.

 

and as previously mentioned the Cubs. I just don't see who else he could be dealt too. There are some names in there I like just as much or more than Andrew Cashner, but not many possible trios like Cashner/J. Jackson/B. Jackson.

[Oldcity]

I'd add the Angels and Rays. In the off-season there would likely be even more suitors (Red Sox, Mariners, A's come to mind).

[monty57]

Good list. You certainly do your homework :-)

 

I'd also keep in mind that if we could land a MLB ready pitcher in a Corey Hart trade (Wade Davis, Minor, etc rumors going around), then we would have a lot more flexibility in dealing Fielder. For example, we could look for a MLB ready RF and younger "high upside" pitching.

 

If we can't get the MLB-ready pitcher for Hart, then yes we are limited in trying to find a trading partner for Fielder. I would add Atlanta to the list. If Hart can come close to getting Minor, than I'd think Fielder should be able to net Minor.

[paulmolitor4]

Thundercat,

 

I think the Orioles would be a better match than you give them credit for. I think they would like to be a contender in a very tough AL East, and adding somebody like Fielder would be a boon for them in that ballpark. They already have Matusz, Tillman, and Arrieta, so maybe a deal could be worked out involving Zach Britton. I really think he's going to be a good one, and he would look real nice at the top of the Brewers' rotation with Gallardo. Maybe have them add in a Matt Hobgood and another low level prospect and you could possibly get something done.

[Baldkin]

The Cubs won't have a hole at 1B, after this season, Soriano will be playing 1B. I'd wager very heavily on that fact. He's become more and more dreadful in LF each season.

[Tedaldtada]

Yes to Christian Freidrich, though I haven't heard much on him this year.

 

The Rays are the obvious match. A deal centered around Hellickson, Moore, Colome, or Davis would be a fine start.

[nate82]

The Dodgers are still in financial limbo right now. Until MLB knows who is going to be owning the Dodgers I don't think they will allow them to add payroll to their team until that is settled.

[JohnBriggs12]

I'm from Dallas so maybe I don't understand the rivalry very well yet. I think its a bad idea in principle to turn down a better deal just to play keep away from the Cubs. The ultimate goal should be improving your team first and you worry about other teams second. Andrew Cashner, Jay Jackson, Brett Jackson is a haul. You're basically taking 3 of the Cubs top 4 prospects and their top 2 pitching prospects. If you wanna say hey those prospects are bums, then I can appreciate your opinion. Don't trade our guy to the Cubs is an emotional response tho and I have trouble getting on board with those.

 

Bottom line is its very likely we lose Prince and the list of teams that can afford Prince, need Prince, and have top level pitching prospects to deal in return is a very short list. Although I'll keep looking for more possible matches, b/c its fun to play matchmaker!

Thundercat,

 

We follow the Cubs pretty closely around these parts. There is nothing and I mean nothing more grating on true Brewer fans than the presence of Cub fans in Miller Park. What you need to understand is that in general also, is the Cubs and the Brewers do not play on a level playing field. Right now, we as Brewer fans are reveling a bit in that the Cubs have tied themselves up with some bad contracts (Soriano, Zambrano, etc). So to some extent, that has leveled the field for the next year or two. Because of that, there's no way the Cubs would make that deal either. Their new owner is trying to bring their payroll from $140 million to $120 million. Lilly could be gone in a week or two. They won't part with Cashner. They can't afford to take on Fielder and Weeks right now either.

 

Now we all fear to some extent that the Cubs by 2012 will have shed enough salary that they get in the bidding for Fielder. But that's something to worry about down the road.