Weeks' trade value...

[And That]

I've seen hundreds of CFs better than Gomez. Best ever? Hilarious.

Gomez is probably not the best CF ever (I don't think Al was saying that anyway), and probably not even the best CF of the last 20 years. But I would like to see a list of the "hundreds" of CFs that are definitely better than him.

[benji]

I have watched the Brewers since 1977, I believe that Gomez is the best defensive outfield talent the Brewers have had. I too would like to see the list of hundreds.

[logan82]

I've seen hundreds of CFs better than Gomez. Best ever? Hilarious.

Gomez is probably not the best CF ever (I don't think Al was saying that anyway), and probably not even the best CF of the last 20 years. But I would like to see a list of the "hundreds" of CFs that are definitely better than him.

I don't think it is far fetched to say Gomez is better defensively than anybody we have had in the last decade though I think an argument could be made for Cameron.

[Never Outhustled]

I've seen hundreds of CFs better than Gomez. Best ever? Hilarious.

Gomez is probably not the best CF ever (I don't think Al was saying that anyway), and probably not even the best CF of the last 20 years. But I would like to see a list of the "hundreds" of CFs that are definitely better than him.

I don't think it is far fetched to say Gomez is better defensively than anybody we have had in the last decade though I think an argument could be made for Cameron.

 

Theres not an ounce of statistical data that suggests Gomez has played better CF for the Brewers than Cameron did.

[logan82]

If you know anything about UZR you should know the folly of trying to use it to determine anything with any certainty at this point in the season.

[Invader3K]

Gomez seems to get good jumps on balls, has tremendous speed, and a very good arm. What exactly are the deficiencies in his defensive game?

[paulmolitor4]

Gomez is probably not the best CF ever (I don't think Al was saying that anyway), and probably not even the best CF of the last 20 years. But I would like to see a list of the "hundreds" of CFs that are definitely better than him.

I don't think it is far fetched to say Gomez is better defensively than anybody we have had in the last decade though I think an argument could be made for Cameron.

 

Theres not an ounce of statistical data that suggests Gomez has played better CF for the Brewers than Cameron did.

I guess that's when you know there is definitely something wrong with the statistics.

 

 

[endaround]

Cameron knew where to throw the ball to, Gomez does not.

[Oldcity]

Instead of looking at just this season, let's look at the last three years.

 

Gomez UZR/150:

 

2008: 17.3

2009: 10.9

2010: -0.8

 

 

Cameron UZR/150:

 

2008: 16.6

2009: 11.4

2010: -37.6

 

 

2010 is a throwaway for Cameron, as he's been hurt. Obviously there's something screwy going on with the small sample size for Gomez as well. The point is, they've been very similar.

 

Knowing where to throw the ball is well behind range/speed and reaction on the list of important traits of a CF. Gomez has great range and instincts. Cameron also has great instincts, but he does not have the speed of Gomez, obviously.

 

Add me to the group that would love to see the list of hundreds better than Gomez defensively.

[endaround]

It goes to the big negative Gomez gets on his error component. His -1.0 is why his UZR/150 stinks this year.

[bullox]

So, about that Weeks guy...

[Hate those Rodents]

Agreed Bullox...

 

It'd be nice to have an "Obsure Statistical Thread" that I could do my best to avoid.

[Rhett16]

 

I've seen hundreds of CFs better than Gomez. Best ever? Hilarious.

Statements like this make it hard to take you seriously.

[imblotto]

bullox]So, about that Weeks guy...

I was surprised to see the title of this thread after seeing these comments.

[DHonks]

The best CF I've seen in person was Fernando Perez, whom Colby and I wanted the Brewers to acquire several times. Gomez hasn't made the spectacular plays, but he has made all the routine ones. I can't say he's been a benefit though, because it's got to be impossible to have avg team defense when you have Hart, Weeks, and Fielder playing on the right side of the diamond

[TooLiveBrew]

Gomez's speed allows him to make plays routinely that other CFs wouldn't make or would make 'spectacularly', though. He definitely reminds me of Cameron in that he makes CF look easy, even though with Gomez it's due more to raw speed than the awesome reads Cam gets right off the bat.

[Never Outhustled]

Gomez is the best CF I've ever seen defensively. He's made several excellent plays and also some fine throws. Cameron played CF like a wily veteran, but he could not run or throw like Carlos.

 

Pretty brutal night for the greatest CF you've ever seen. More butcher jobs and clueless throws tonight.

 

Those who claim his UZR will recover with playing time didn't get any help with that argument tonight. This guy plays completely out of control.

[RockCoCougars]

I'm old, but I'm not old enough to have seen Willie Mays in his prime. That said, I would venture that Willie was better than Carlos in center. I wonder what his UZR or whatever was.

[kramnoj]

UZR, a play by play statistic, doesn't exist for Mays. But one person has created Wins Above Replacement through other methods and those can be seen here: http://www.baseballprojection.com/war/m/maysw101.htm

 

Mays at his best was +20 Runs, which means that he was worth 2 Wins Defensively in his best year. For his career, he was worth 135 Runs, so over 13 Wins.

[wallus]

Pretty brutal night for the greatest CF you've ever seen. More butcher jobs and clueless throws tonight.

 

Those who claim his UZR will recover with playing time didn't get any help with that argument tonight. This guy plays completely out of control.

Where is the list you talked about?

[Never Outhustled]

Pretty brutal night for the greatest CF you've ever seen. More butcher jobs and clueless throws tonight.

 

Those who claim his UZR will recover with playing time didn't get any help with that argument tonight. This guy plays completely out of control.

Where is the list you talked about?

 

Gomez has played below average defense for the Brewers. I've watched baseball for almost 30 years. You really think I haven't watched 100 guys play average defense?

[logan82]

Gomez has played below average defense for the Brewers. I've watched baseball for almost 30 years. You really think I haven't watched 100 guys play average defense?

No, I think your personal observations are flawed. UZR may not be perfect but it is far and away better than any one fan's observations.

[Never Outhustled]

logan3825]

X ellence wrote:

Gomez has played below average defense for the Brewers. I've watched baseball for almost 30 years. You really think I haven't watched 100 guys play average defense?

No, I think your personal observations are flawed. UZR may not be perfect but it is far and away better than any one fan's observations.

 

I'm not sure what your saying here. Gomez has a below average UZR as a Brewer. My original statement was Gomez has not played well defensively as a Brewer. This year alone, half of the leagues CFs have outplayed Gomez defensively, and thats not my personal observation.

 

I also think UZR isn't telling us how bad Gomez has been as a Brewer, because it doesn't account for constantly throwing to thw rong base or missing wide of the cutoff man by 20 feet.

[logan82]

UZR over the few games can be very misleading. The fact that you keep trying to use it to prop up your opinion leads me to believe you have not read up on UZR and really don't know enough about it. Basically Gomez does not have enough chances to give UZR any idea how he has played this year. Not enough balls hit to gaps and one or two mistakes is going to skew things pretty badly with his playing time. You can rail against his defense all you want but he has shown over previous seasons he is a plus defender. There is little or no reason to expect him to play anything except very good defense.

[Never Outhustled]

UZR over the few games can be very misleading.

Few= 50. Got it.

 

 

You can rail against his defense all you want but he has shown over previous seasons he is a plus defender.

Why are last years stats relevent? He only started 86 games. Thats barely more than a "few". In 36 more starts Gomez's stats are still going to look disappointing.

 

I'm not sure how previous seasons stats affect the fact that he has done exactly what I've said he's done, which is he has played poorly as a Brewer. And stop saying he just needs a few more balls hit to the gap to even out his stats. The Brewers pitching has been horrible, there's been more than enough tough chances. Playing behind bad pitching has exposed Gomez, not hindered him. Playing with poor defensive OFs has exposed him as well.