Hart Trade Thread: Latest-- Does Hart's injury mean no deal?

[jackalope02ca]

Sorry but I'm not trading an All Star OF with a year of control left for just one minor league pitcher. I'm fine with Minor as the centerpiece of the deal but they had better add in another lower leverl prospects or two. As for taking Kawakami I wouldn't be opposed as I think he's better than he's shown this year but they would need to take Hoffman and the rest of his contract back for this year and throw in another decent prospect to compensate us for the additional salary for next.

[brosto1]

If they offer Minor straight up for Hart, I would be pleasantly surprised. Who cares if Hart is a two-time All Star, Omar Infante will now forever be called a "former All-Star". Hart has 1.5 years of control left and is replaceable. If they were to get Minor for six controlled seasons it would be a very nice return. Minor may not have an ace upside, but he doesn't have the high flameout potential of other prospects. He is a safet bet to be a mid rotation starter for a long time and potentially more if his velocity remains up as it has this season.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

Kawakami's contract could just just replace Davis or Bush next year. He's probably better or at least equivalent to them for not that much more. If we could get Minor & take on Kawakami, maybe they would add some lower level prospects as well.

 

I'm really happy for Corey he's doing as well as he is this year. After watching those years with that long, bad swing it's tough to believe he's finally cured his ails. Then again, what would our offense look like without him this year? This is still the type of trade they should probably explore.

[jackalope02ca]

Here's the thing about prospects in general. There is no such thing as a safe bet or a sure thing with very very few exceptions. Minor is not one of those exceptions. That's not to say he can't be good or even great but the chance he never makes an impact is pretty big as well. Think Manny Parra as an example. We all thought we had something special. Right now we have a guy that's just good enough to keep his job showing no upside and quickly approaching the time to cut the strings for good. The only reason he still has a job is there is no one ready to take his job in the minors.

[RockCoCougars]

Kawakami's contract could just just replace Davis or Bush next year. He's probably better or at least equivalent to them for not that much more. If we could get Minor & take on Kawakami, maybe they would add some lower level prospects as well.

 

I'm really happy for Corey he's doing as well as he is this year. After watching those years with that long, bad swing it's tough to believe he's finally cured his ails. Then again, what would our offense look like without him this year? This is still the type of trade they should probably explore.

I say forget it if Kawakami is involved unless significant money is coming back and/or they take Hawkins. Part of my interest in trading Hart for a minor leaguer is that will free up probably another $10 million in salary to play with this off season. If Hart is moved, they are going to need money to find a replacement. You can't have Gomez, Cain and Escobar in your lineup. It's not a lock that Fielder will be back either. I'm not interested in paying $7 million for a guy who will be 36 years old next year, and is giving up more than a hit per inning this year. He's basically an older, more expensive Dave Bush, and I don't want Bush back next season either.

[madtowndrunkard]

Here's the thing about prospects in general. There is no such thing as a safe bet or a sure thing with very very few exceptions. Minor is not one of those exceptions. That's not to say he can't be good or even great but the chance he never makes an impact is pretty big as well. Think Manny Parra as an example. We all thought we had something special. Right now we have a guy that's just good enough to keep his job showing no upside and quickly approaching the time to cut the strings for good. The only reason he still has a job is there is no one ready to take his job in the minors.

You can name dozens of so called "elite" prospects who never amounted to anything over just the last 4-5 years. If LaPorta and Gamel don't start producing in the next year or two you can add them to that list. So yea "prospects" for proven starters is IMO a major gamble for the seller. I'm worried Melvin is going to trade Hart and Fielder for a bunch of "prospects" when we should be getting good young players w/ potential. Our entire pitching staff needs to be dismantled...not to mention the hole at CF and RF for next year. This team is two years away if we are lucky and VERY aggressive in fixing our issues.

 

What happened to our so called great farm system? I thought Melvin was a genius for rebuilding this franchise? After drafting Weeks, Prince, Braun, Hart, and Gallardo we've stuck out. There wasn't a GM alive who would not have taken Prince, Weeks, or Braun when they were drafted. So can't really give Melvin credit for that. So really what has he produced? Our FA signings for the most part of stunk...and that's being very kind. We should be going after the Marlins or Rays GM. Both franchises who cannot fill seats yet they are loaded with talent.....when they can't afford to keep their talent they always manage to pull of a trade that quickly reloads their roster.

[TheCrew07]

There is a new rumor on MLBtraderumors.com referencing Peter Gammons talking about a Corey Hart to the Braves for Mike Minor. 1st Round pick from 2009. Advanced arm already in AAA. Thoughts from the Brewerfan.net experts?

I'd be shocked if that deal happened, but I'd be alright with it as Minor is about the best we're going to do out of Hart. He's a pitchability guy, but he's young and a LHP. He could overachieve with pitching savvy, but I'd be hesitant to qualify his upside as anything more than a 3rd starter at this time. Again, it's a good trade for us value wise and a good deal for Hart.

[trwi7]

This is from Keith Law's chat on May 19th.

 

John (Atlanta)

 

Mike Minor is striking guys out like crazy, at 13.1 per 9 innings. Is he doing anything differently, or is it more a function of being more polished than the guys he's facing? Was he ever supposed to be a big K guy?

Klaw

(1:20 PM)

 

Throwing harder - a good 2-3 mph harder - with the accompanying drop in command. The questions are: Can he improve his command without giving up the newfound velo? And can he maintain the velo for a full season? If the answers to both are "yes," his ceiling would jump to that of a #2 starter.

[Never Outhustled]

I just don't see how Sanchez counts toward "rebuilding" the team when he has only two years left of team control.

 

I agree. We'd then have a short term pitcher, but still haven't found anyone to go deep into games and save the bullpen, and we'd have a hole in RF.

So what? Hart is gone anyway right? Gamel, Cain, Lawrie, etc could all possibly fill that hole long term, 1 OF spot is the least of our concerns. It's not creating another hole, it's trading up in value.

 

Sanchez isn't a guy I'd be all that thrilled to acquire, but who care about trading any position player not name Braun? Sanchez does have plenty of talent, but he's not a long term solution, which is the only reason I'd be hesitant to acquire him. If we aren't winning with the players we have I don't understand the fascination with keeping them? We were below .500 last year, we're below .500 this year. We already unintentionally punted twice during what was supposed to be an extended run of success with this core. What we have and what we've done isn't working, time to try something else.

 

What I'm advocating is making an intelligent move, not a move that solves nothing. If we had accepted the Sanchez trade, because it was time to try something new, we wouldn't be able to consider the Atlanta offer with Mike Minor. Plus, these are just the early offers, they get better as more teams get involved.

[craigharmann]

The more I'm reading about Minor, I'm OK with taking on Kawakami. Or whatever is necessary. Just as long as the Brewers' med staff doesn't screw him up like almost everyone else!

[TheCrew07]

I'll just say that people who are once again making the argument against prospects either don't understand the limited value a player like Hart carries or aren't interested in acquiring inexpensive and productive talent. When trading players like Hart for a "proven" MLB pitcher, all we're getting back is a Dave Bush in return. The Bushs of the world are nice players, but they also have very limited ceilings as pitchers. Bush was never going to more than a solid #3, and honestly that type of pitching is not an organizational need, we have plenty of mid to back of the rotation guys, what we don't' have are top of the rotation starters that are going to give us 7 IP on a consistent basis.

 

Prospects flame out, prospects haven't proven anything, prospects are unpredictable, prospects blah blah blah... What does any of that have to do with relative talent? Shouldn't it be clear that if all we ever acquire is average MLB pitching, the team is never going to be better than average? 1 minor league pitcher isn't enough? My goodness how much can we get for Hart? Minor has a K rate over 10 in his short minor league career and carries a fastball that tops around 90, what more are we going to get for a player like Hart? No one is going to give up 2 real pitching prospects for Hart, we'll be hard pressed to get 2 real pitching prospects for Fielder.

 

I much rather trade for 1 Mike Minor than sign 1 Doug Davis every off season.

[Never Outhustled]

BaseballAmerica has also noted Minor's improved velocity since the Braves made some tweaks to his delivery right after him signing last year.

 

He misses bats, which would be a change in direction from the guys Melvin usually adds. The Braves still need to add more to the deal, and they will.

[Kelbysdaddy]

i love the idea of hart for minor!!! if they work out something for more players what do you think the crew would have to work in for minor and melky cabrera. maybe hart and villanueva. it really doesnt seem like atlanta is all too fond of the melk man. the only thing i worry about is if he'd be just like gomez with less power at the plate. or how about hart and some combo of a couple guys like like taylor green, caleb gindl, cam garfield, or (insert prospect here) for minor and teheren. i also like jordan schafer and think that would be a hell of alot more possible.

LEAVE SANCHEZ AND THE GIANTS ALONE!!!! IF YOU'RE NOT GETTING BUMGARNER, WALK AWAY!!!!

[monty57]

Here's the thing about prospects in general. There is no such thing as a safe bet or a sure thing with very very few exceptions. Minor is not one of those exceptions. That's not to say he can't be good or even great but the chance he never makes an impact is pretty big as well. Think Manny Parra as an example. We all thought we had something special. Right now we have a guy that's just good enough to keep his job showing no upside and quickly approaching the time to cut the strings for good. The only reason he still has a job is there is no one ready to take his job in the minors.

I'd hardly consider Hart a "safe bet." He had a .750 OPS each of the past two seasons, which along with his poor defense is about the equivalent of a 5.00 ERA starting pitcher. His last big half season (leading to his 2008 All Star appearance) was followed up by a .650-ish OPS second half. Prior to this season, many posters here were calling for him to be DFA'd, and I thought he'd be given away for nothing after this season. I'd like to believe that he has found the cure to all of his problems, but unfortunately, I think there's probably at least a 50/50 chance he'll have a below average 2nd half and he could very easily be a sub-.800 OPS hitter again next year.

 

As for Parra, right now he is pitching like our second best pitcher, and is finally living up to some of his hype. The reason he has a job is that he has a mid-90's fastball, which is very rare for a lefty and a pretty good splitter. I don't get the "showing no upside" comment, as he has as much upside as about any pitcher in the majors. He just needs to harness his control, which isn't uncommon in young (he was injured and missed significant time, so he's still "pitching young") flame-throwing pitchers. It's definitely not a sure thing that he's figured everything out, but if we cut strings with him right now, Melvin should be tarred and feathered.

[chadomac]

Manny Parra still can't pitch more than 6 innings. Ever. I'm not counting on him to ever be more than a 4/5 at this point... but I'd like to give him the shot to try for the rest of this season since it doesn't matter anymore. But if we needed to combine him with Hart to secure Bumgarner or another top pitching prospect - I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[BrewCrewForever]

I will gladly take Kawakami if we can get Minor for Hart. Lets do it!

[PeaveyFury]

Like almost everyone else, I'd strongly prefer Minor to Sanchez, but I also agree with X that unless a deal falls into our lap that would be crazy to pass up, it probably isn't a bad idea to wait and see what happens after the AS break as teams get more willing to talk.

 

I'm not as down on Sanchez as a lot of people here, but agree that he'd be a less than ideal return now that a guy like Minor is supposedly on the table. Still, while he has the walk/not going deep into a lot of games issues that we have with Parra, he's also had two much better seasons than Manny in a row and an ERA 1.5 runs lower than Manny this year. Probably an upgrade in our, but not a guy I'd want the Brewers to trade for around the All Star Break.

[adambr2]

I'd be okay with Minor but I too want to see more added to the deal.

 

Keep in mind that Hart is likely heading towards Type A FA status. Not only are we forfeiting a year and a half of him if he is traded, we are forfeiting the 1st round supplementary pick at a minimum (Type B), + 1st or 2nd round pick in free agency. (If Type A).

 

The trade compensation needs to help cover that, not just a year and a half of Hart.

[Hate those Rodents]

Ill take Minor straight up for Hart. Some of you are being just ridiculous in what you want as compensation. Boy has a lot changed since April.

[wibadgers23]

Yes to Mike Minor! This is exactly the type of trade we need to make. A first round draft pick last year who is young and already advanced. No more trading for Dave Bush type pitchers. I'd be more than happy if we got him straight up for Hart.

[Bnowell4evr]

A potential deal with the Giants is becoming more and more unlikely. They dont want to give up Sanchez and would prefer to deal prospects. I cant see them giving up Bumgarner and theres no other ML ready pitching in there system. Plus they seem to be targeting a LH bat now instead. Hopefully the Braves rumors are true.

http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/18135941629

[NievesNoNO]

Ill take Minor straight up for Hart. Some of you are being just ridiculous in what you want as compensation. Boy has a lot changed since April.

I completely agree. Suddenly some feel that Hart is worth more than a solid starter with a plus fastball or a top pitching prospect? I'm all about getting as much as possible from any potential bidders, but I think Hart is being overvalued a bit. I'd hate to miss out on moving him for a need because we held out for an extra throw in semi-prospect. Maybe he's a changed player, but that still doesn't change the Brewers needs.

 

[BrewCrewForever]

With the Braves and Minor in the picture I say the Giants can go pound sand. Doug better get this deal done.

[Oldcity]

Sanchez I was unhappy with, but Minor I'd be thrilled with. I wouldn't even mind taking Kawakami back... He's probably better than a few of the Brewers' starters anyway.

[crewcrazy]

With the Braves and Minor in the picture I say the Giants can go pound sand. Doug better get this deal done.

That's assuming it's true...IIRC, Peter Gammons doesn't have a great history of reporting rumors that eventually become fact (although I do remember him being one of the first to mention Kevin Mench for Carlos Lee).