Hart Trade Thread: Latest-- Does Hart's injury mean no deal?

[WisconsinSportsRule]

I'm not at all against getting Sanchez depending what comes with him. He'd be a major upgrade to Parra and Narveson. While I don't see Sanchez developing into a #1 or even a #2 I think he's a solid #3 type guy which we badly need. We also need a #2 guy badly but that would have to wait for another day. I'd love to get Schierholtz back with him as well as I think he's been majorly underutilized in San Fran.

That's the type of thinking involving around Sanchez that really bugs me. Yes, he'd be an upgrade to our pitching staff, but our staff is awful. Just because he's a good fit in our rotation doesn't mean he would be equal value for Hart.

 

And I don't mean to single you out, it's just that idea that bothers me.

[Oldcity]

You don't hear trade rumors for Yo, and for good reason. You gotta get those top guys while they still are prospects, one way or another.

So let's move Hart for a young guy who has a chance to be one rather than a guy who has proven he isn't, is expensive, and not a long-term solution.

[Never Outhustled]

[quote author=X ellence wrote:

 

[/b]I really don't think the Giants need to do anything. Pat Burrel has been a huge addition, Huff is good, Posey is finding his footing, and Sandoval is starting to wake up. If they add something, it should be a middle infielder.

 

SF uses Travis Ishikara at 1B much of the time. Needless to say, they'll be adding a 1B or OF before the deadline.

 

Saying it pompously doesn't make it true. Ishikawa's career OPS is just barely under league average for the position, he's just 26, he's having his best season, he had big AAA numbers, and he's a top defender.

[dadofandrew]

Travis can make a fine PH/defensive replacement at 1B, and maybe will develop into more. At the moment, 5-6 games out of the playoffs, they'll pickup an upgrade and hope for the best.

[Sixto Lezcano]

What could the crew add along with Hart that would get them to deal Zach Wheeler along with Sanchez?

[dadofandrew]

A season and a half of Hart is not going to get you Wheeler or a Yo like prospect. Lawrie might, but I see no benefit in that. Equal value for Hart is probably less than Sanchez, or it wasn't 3 months ago. Sanchez has been a guy whose been labeled an underachiever and mentioned in rumors for ages. Now that he's put it together, he isn't worth less, he's worth more. If he can add some quick innings and get up to 200 IP, he might be a #2. I doubt that will happen, but I would have questioned a 3.50 ERA prediction as well.

[Invader3K]

I don't know. I think people on this board sometimes get over excited about any halfway decent pitcher the Brewers seem like they could get. Sanchez would probably end up being another #4/5 type starter for the Brewers. He's not a long term solution; he's just another guy. Probably better than Narveson and Bush, but that's about it.

[jackalope02ca]

Sanchez is a realistic start at rebuilding this team. Unless you are the Yankees you don't just go out and buy a #2, #3 and #4 one day for something to do. I'm fine with Yo and Wolf filling roles on this team. Sanchez would be a nice addition. he would be another piece of the puzzle. I'm not suggesting for a second he'd be a saviour or make us a winner but he'd be an improvement. That wouldn't stop us from needing another #1b or #2 to seriously compete. Beng a small market team you take baby steps to get better. It all depends what comes with him. Add in Schierholtz to replace Hart because I think he's more than serviceable and always got the short end of the stick in San Fran because he had options left. If we toss in a middle reliever and could get back a couple of intruging prospects I'd do that deal.

[Invader3K]

I just don't see how Sanchez counts toward "rebuilding" the team when he has only two years left of team control.

[Never Outhustled]

Invader3K]I just don't see how Sanchez counts toward "rebuilding" the team when he has only two years left of team control.

 

I agree. We'd then have a short term pitcher, but still haven't found anyone to go deep into games and save the bullpen, and we'd have a hole in RF.

[1e Corbeau]

jackalope, I'm curious as to why you think Sanchez is an improvement on Parra, particularly a "major upgrade"? And, what makes him a "realistic start at rebuilding" a rotation? He has what, two years of arbitration left?

 

I guess I don't see Parra and Sanchez as being very different. Sanchez has a year more of service time, so he's a bit more expensive at the same age, with a tick better BB and K rate over the last 3+ years. Sanchez's H/9 are WHIP are better, for sure, but their FIP and xFIP are a wash. Plus, Sanchez is a flyball pitcher who is helped by a lower HR/FO %, likely from being in the NL West. Sanchez is trending better this year, especially with WHIP, but, as noted repeatedly, he still has a pretty substantial BB/9.

 

That said, I like Manny Parra and think he's the type of potential upside we should hold onto and give every chance possible while he's still under control and we have room on the 25 man. The question for me is if I'm the Brewers would I trade Manny Parra for, say, Josh Willingham, Ryan Church, Nate McLouth, Ryan Ludwick, or Jason Kubel (the best of Hart's similar batters through at b-r.com) and NOT feel like you just ripped off a team? I wold feel like I got a steal, even considering the premium for pitching--which is why I hope the FO holds out for more than Sanchez. Bumgarner is likely a pipe dream, but Wheeler is far enough off where the Giants might not feel immediate pain at dealing him. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[brewmann04]

I rather keep Hart then trade him for Sanchez.

[uwisfan]

the problem is that DM gets excited about these marginal types and we end up with a boatload of them. How many pitchers have been on the overall staff the last 3 years? An amazing number.

 

The Crew should have no problem finding 4s and 5s in the minors the next few years. They need to find players that will be no worse than a 3 by next year or an even higher ceiling prospect. Hart could help this team next year and he will net us no worse than a Type B free agent bounty by offseason.

[Invader3K]

the problem is that DM gets excited about these marginal types and we end up with a boatload of them. How many pitchers have been on the overall staff the last 3 years? An amazing number.

 

The Crew should have no problem finding 4s and 5s in the minors the next few years. They need to find players that will be no worse than a 3 by next year or an even higher ceiling prospect. Hart could help this team next year and he will net us no worse than a Type B free agent bounty by offseason.

I don't know if Melvin really gets "excited about these marginal types." That seems like a big reach. It's more that these are the only kind of pitchers teams are willing to give up, or that aren't commanding insane prices in FA.

[Baldkin]

the problem is that DM gets excited about these marginal types and we end up with a boatload of them. How many pitchers have been on the overall staff the last 3 years? An amazing number.

On average, over the last 3 seasons, teams have used between 21-23 pitchers per season. That's exactly what the Brewers have used each year... heck, they even used less in 2008.

[Sixto Lezcano]

My thinking earlier concerning Zack Wheeler along with Sanchez was that he was a top prospect at a lower level. If we sweetened the offer perhaps he'd be a right handed pitching prospect to place in the minor leagues and would be ready to reach the majors around the time Lawrie and company arrive.

 

Concerning Schierholtz in a deal with Sanchez should that be the pitcher retuning to Milwaukee , I'd again rather see the Crew go after outfield prospect Thomas Neal who as yet to reach the major leagues. The sampling that Schierholtz has provided in the big league has not been very impressive.

[RockCoCougars]

Apparently the Phillies may be willing to move Werth. Hopefully the Giants talk to them to get a better idea of what Hart's value is. Werth has had a slightly better career, but hasn't been as good as Hart this year, and is a rental player. At any rate, I have a feeling that the Phillies wouldn't settle for Sanchez.

[TheCrew07]

I just don't see how Sanchez counts toward "rebuilding" the team when he has only two years left of team control.

 

I agree. We'd then have a short term pitcher, but still haven't found anyone to go deep into games and save the bullpen, and we'd have a hole in RF.

So what? Hart is gone anyway right? Gamel, Cain, Lawrie, etc could all possibly fill that hole long term, 1 OF spot is the least of our concerns. It's not creating another hole, it's trading up in value.

 

Sanchez isn't a guy I'd be all that thrilled to acquire, but who care about trading any position player not name Braun? Sanchez does have plenty of talent, but he's not a long term solution, which is the only reason I'd be hesitant to acquire him. If we aren't winning with the players we have I don't understand the fascination with keeping them? We were below .500 last year, we're below .500 this year. We already unintentionally punted twice during what was supposed to be an extended run of success with this core. What we have and what we've done isn't working, time to try something else.

[RockCoCougars]

Sanchez isn't a guy I'd be all that thrilled to acquire, but who care about trading any position player not name Braun? Sanchez does have plenty of talent, but he's not a long term solution, which is the only reason I'd be hesitant to acquire him. If we aren't winning with the players we have I don't understand the fascination with keeping them? We were below .500 last year, we're below .500 this year. We already unintentionally punted twice during what was supposed to be an extended run of success with this core. What we have and what we've done isn't working, time to try something else.

I feel that in large part, this mediocrity is attributable to Melvin making a poor choice to manage this team. At what point is Macha (and Melvin for that matter) held accountable? No way should this team be where it is right now. That's why I feel that most of this core should be given one more season before everything is blown up. Make some changes at the top, and let them use all the dead money coming off the books to fill some holes this off-season. I want to see what a new perspective in player evaluation and managerial philosophy can do in this weak division. I'm not saying Fielder shouldn't be moved for the right deal, but there is absolutely no rush to do so this month. The same applies to Hart and Weeks. If we see the same results next year at this time, then you can blow everything up.

[Klements Bratwurst]

There is a new rumor on MLBtraderumors.com referencing Peter Gammons talking about a Corey Hart to the Braves for Mike Minor. 1st Round pick from 2009. Advanced arm already in AAA. Thoughts from the Brewerfan.net experts?

[Oldcity]

Now THAT'S the type of trade that I want to see. AAA arm with good minor league numbers and a recent high pick. I'd actually be surprised that the Braves would be willing to move him.

[Bnowell4evr]

Now THAT'S the type of trade that I want to see. AAA arm with good minor league numbers and a recent high pick. I'd actually be surprised that the Braves would be willing to move him.

Maybe Medlen's impressed them enough as a starter that they consider him expendable? If this rumor is true Id take it without thinking twice.

[DrugBust]

per his twitter feed:

 

http://twitter.com/pgammo/status/18045429564

 

I would be happy with this.

[molitor fan]

http://www.talkingchop.com/2010/7/8/1558895/mike-minor-is-the-braves-most

 

I think this is happening and might occur before the weekend is over. Minor is a lefty with an advanced feel for the game and while only the Braves #3 pitching prospect, he has zoomed through the minors, produced 2 quality AAA starts and was the #7 overall pick last year. Whether Kawakami gets thrown into this deal will be the most intriguing thing for me.....I want Melvin to be uber-active in the next 3 weeks.

[molitor fan]

http://www.talkingchop.com/2010/7/8/1558895/mike-minor-is-the-braves-most

 

Also discussed in the other Hart thread.