Hart Trade Thread: Latest-- Does Hart's injury mean no deal?

[trwi7]

I also have some doubts about him clearing waivers, as he's not very expensive and having a very good year.

 

I thought the post-deadline waivers were where the so called gentlemen's agreement existed amongst MLB GMs. Meaning, guys don't tend to put claims in on players.

You put claims in, you can just pull a guy back if you don't like what the team is offering and you can only trade with that team. That's why a lot of trades don't happen then. You can't create a market since you can only trade with the team who claimed him and a lot of times a claim is made to prevent a competing team from making a claim. Just like with Hoffman last year. The Giants claimed him, but they didn't need him. They just wanted to prevent the Rockies, Dodgers and Phillies from claiming him.

 

[logan82]

A guy can also pass through waivers at which time you can trade him to anybody.

[LouisEly]

I thought the post-deadline waivers were where the so called gentlemen's agreement existed amongst MLB GMs. Meaning, guys don't tend to put claims in on players.

 

Ask Alex Rios.

 

To Corbeau's point, if what was offered for Hart was a 28-year-old AAA starter having a career year, or the equivalent of Adam Heether and Luis Cruz, then I'm glad a deal wasn't made. Let's not forget, while Hart is having a career year he also had a .897 OPS in 2007, and the Brewers will be better next year if Cain is the starting CF with Hart in RF instead of Cain in RF and Gomez in CF. I think Melvin is smart enough to have made a deal if a pitcher under 25 with the upside of a #3 starter was really offered. Let's also remember that DeJesus was also available until a couple of days before Hart got hurt, so perhaps other teams were playing the Brewers against the Royals and things didn't really heat up until after DeJesus was hurt. And speaking of the Royals, Jose Guillen is still available as well.

[RockCoCougars]

I'd be very surprised if Hart passed through waivers, and at any rate, if the best offer Melvin had on the table was Jonathan Sanchez (and the Giants reportedly weren't even willing to move him), he made the right move in standing pat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[monty57]

Let's not forget, while Hart is having a career year he also had a .897 OPS in 2007, and the Brewers will be better next year if Cain is the starting CF with Hart in RF instead of Cain in RF and Gomez in CF.

 

Not if Hart does what he did after that .897 OPS season, which is to post a .750-ish OPS in 2008. We would probably be far better with Cain in CF, Gamel (or FA) in RF and the #3 starter we got for Hart in the rotation. Heck, we might even be better with the OF you proposed, as Gomez's defense could make up for the difference in OPS.

 

if the best offer Melvin had on the table was Jonathan Sanchez (and the Giants reportedly weren't even willing to move him), he made the right move in standing pat.

 

Very true. However, if the only reason that was the best offer was that he insisted that we get someone who is "MLB Proven," then I think he was handcuffing himself in trade talks. If he insists on a proven MLB pitcher, then he will find the best deal in the offseason, as very few playoff teams will trade a pitcher out of their starting rotation in the middle of a playoff hunt. Conversely, a team hungry for the playoffs could get desparate and overpay with prospects, as wins now become viewed as being more important than potential wins in the future.

 

As I said earlier, I really think Melvin wanted to trade Hart before the deadline, as he's worried that his bat will cool off, hurting his value by the offseason. In my mind, that's why all the rumors were surrounding Hart (who could be a flash in the pan) and not so much around Fielder (who is a good player). I think he was trying to get the best deal possible, which he probably thought could increase as the deadline approached, and unfortunately Hart got hurt, basically taking him off the market until the offseason. It's possible he comes back tomorrow, shows he's healthy and a trade is made, but it would take a GM with some fortitude to make the deal. We now have to hope that Hart stays hot through the end of the year.

[rcon14]

I don't think Hart's value has realistically been affected. It's not a wrist injury, as it's widely reported. It's really a thumb/hand injury, so there really shouldn't be much, if any, long-term concern. Even if Hart can't play or play well before the deadline, he can always be traded after the deadline.

 

Even if he gets traded before the deadline, the injury is very mild and he's missed a few games but it's almost stupid to wait and see and hope to acquire him after the waiver deadine. The risk/reward would be worth it for me to make a deal, as long as I at least see him play in a game or two.

[monty57]

ESPN has an article on why the Brewers should sell high on Corey Hart. It's an Insider article, and I'm not an Insider, so I didn't get the whole story. Looks to be comparing Hart to Jason Werth regarding how many of his home runs just barely clear the OF fence. Werth had a high percentage last year, foreboding a down year this year (which has happened). Hart apparently has a lot of "Just Enough" home runs this year, potentially foreboding a significant fall off next year.

[endaround]

Except Werth is having a better year, just fewer home runs.

[monty57]

I didn't see the whole article. Basically, I was just recapping what the author was saying in the first couple paragraphs. Probably just someone warping stats to say what he wants them to say :-)

[ninja33]

ESPN has an article on why the Brewers should sell high on Corey Hart. It's an Insider article, and I'm not an Insider, so I didn't get the whole story. Looks to be comparing Hart to Jason Werth regarding how many of his home runs just barely clear the OF fence. Werth had a high percentage last year, foreboding a down year this year (which has happened). Hart apparently has a lot of "Just Enough" home runs this year, potentially foreboding a significant fall off next year.

Hart has 10 "just enough" homeruns this year. Same number as Joey Votto, and I don't think too many people expect a significant dropoff from Votto (I know they're far different players, but just saying). Prince and Rickie have 9, same as Howard and Zimmerman. Dunn has 8.

I'm not saying Hart isn't playing way above his head (I'd love if we could sell high on him), but as far as "just enough" homeruns being used, there are a lot of established power hitters that are right up there with Corey in that stat.

[wibadgers23]

I would imagine there are going to be quite a few scouts at the game tomorrow night checking out Hart. Still a very minor chance he gets traded, but you never know I guess.

[TooLiveBrew]

I would imagine they won't be there to see if he goes 4-4 or 0-4, either. I'd bet they'll be there to see if his swing looks normal, or if it looks like his injury will impede him from swinging the way he normally does.

[trwi7]

I would imagine they won't be there to see if he goes 4-4 or 0-4, either. I'd bet they'll be there to see if his swing looks normal, or if it looks like his injury will impede him from swinging the way he normally does.

Certainly wouldn't hurt if he went 4-4 though. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Sage]

"The Detroit Tigers picked up infielder Jhonny Peralta from the Cleveland Indians on Wednesday, filling one of their vacancies created by injury.

 

But the Tigers may not be done dealing. They still could use an infielder, having lost both Brandon Inge and Carlos Guillen to the disabled list, and might be as active as any club on the market in their search for outfield help after Magglio Ordonez's season-ending injury.

 

We mentioned earlier this week that Jayson Werth might be a fit, but it appears Werth will stay in Philly with the injury to Shane Victorino. Washington's Josh Willingham and Milwaukee's Corey Hart appear to be fits, but Washington has yet to put Willingham on the market -- it seems focused on taking care of the Adam Dunn situation -- and Milwaukee wants young pitching in return for Hart.

 

If the Tigers want Hart, however, they might have a young arm that fits. It's just tough to believe GM Dave Dombrowski would deal Rick Porcello or Jacob Turner for a year and two months of Hart. Perhaps left-hander Andrew Oliver makes more sense."

 

Small ESPN Inside article that I read. Hart to the Tigers would make sense, and getting any of those pitchers mentioned (Porcello, Turner, or Oliver) would be a great return for Hart, if you ask me. Thoughts?

[Tennik]

I agree it would be nice, but I'm feeling a little burned by all this speculation form espn. It would be nice to a hear a legitimate rumor involving the Brewers today.....

[JohnBriggs12]

I kind of like Porcello. He's basically what Jon Garland was 9-10 years ago. He'll probably be a serviceable mid rotation guy for years. I just don't see Tigers giving him up. I wouldn't give up Hart for Oliver or Turner. Oliver is clearly over his head in the majors right now. He was force fed earlier and really belongs in AA. I'd just like to see a little more results. Turner's a really nice prospect and might be a nice investment for the future, but he's years off. Brewers' inventory of guys his age and level is pretty good.

[Funketown]

Take this for what it's worth:

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors...-are-off-the-market.html

[trwi7]

I'm sorry, but I want some of the crack the Brewers are smoking.

[ThePurpleStorm]

Oh my Gawd. I seriously hope this is some kind of smokescreen, because otherwise I'm going to be very depressed. No one in their right mind believes this team is in contention right now.

[derflotr]

I don't think the Brewers still believe they're in contention...they just aren't getting the offers they want for guys that aren't even free agents at the end of the year. Basically, they'll wait to the offseason where there's more time to act on an offer. I just think DM and company are being too unrealistic thinking they're going to get a top-flight proven MLB starter for Hart or Fielder - heck, any position player. Anyone taking on Fielder or Hart is a contender and none of them have an extra ace or two to throw our way. We have no idea what offers Melvin has been getting, but I just hope that he isn't being too picky. I don't know where the pitching help in 2011 is going to come from if not in a trade of some kind.

[Bankjob]

I do not understand the major depression about not trading Prince or Corey. They will both be available to trade in the offseason. And in the offseason teams are willing to trade major league pitching. I am not against trading either of them, but standing pat is better than gettting a crappy mid season return like the D-Backs did for Haren.

[jwill535]

People are more angry with the crap that the Brewers keep trying to sell the fans. As if anyone that actually is paying attention believes that they are still in contention.

[nate82]

Who in the Brewers organization said they were in contention? I don't see Melvin saying it at all. You guys are taking the word from a person in a rival club way to serious. It is probably just the cook at the cafeteria for some team that heard something about something that that person heard from someone about something. So not a reliable source at all.

[trwi7]

People are more angry with the crap that the Brewers keep trying to sell the fans. As if anyone that actually is paying attention believes that they are still in contention.

 

This.

 

Bankjob wrote:

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And in the offseason teams are willing to trade major league pitching.

And this kind of thinking annoys me as well. I want the best package available. I don't care where the players are. If we get a major league ready guy that has the upside of Dave Bush or a guy in A ball with the upside of Gallardo, which would you take? Major league pitching means jack unless it's good major league pitching, which I doubt we will get, so in that case, take the best collection from the minors that you can.

[PeaveyFury]

I want the best package available. I don't care where the players are.

 

But by eliminating a whole grouping of players, aren't you inherently putting yourself in a situation where you're not being offered packages that are the best value?