Hart Trade Thread: Latest-- Does Hart's injury mean no deal?

[Hate those Rodents]

San Francisco Chronicle says the Giants have an interest in lefty middle reliever Will Ohman of the O's. With us having a glut of lefties and Stetter in AAA, might we be able to fill their need here and package one with Hart to maybe make a Bumgarner or Sanchez/Wheeler trade more realistic?

 

Sorry TLB. Admittedly, I haven't looked at Gamel's stats, probably since sometime in early June. Good to hear he's playing well. I'll go check stats now.

[wishicouldhit]

Good point combining a LOOGY with hart to get Buamgarner, but I can also tell u haven't been paying attention to Stetter's stats either. I don't remember what they are exactly (all i know is that they are atrocious). I wonder if Cappy or Naverson would satisfy them

[pingman]

http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-braves/teams-calling-about-braves-577566.html

 

article on Braves pitching prospects

[Oldcity]

Ugh. Just terrible timing for Hart to get injured. This seems to be a wasted season.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Yeah, this sucks. Even if we had offers on the table, they'll be gone soon. Sure hope he's ok though. Hate to see injuries like that.

[tyguy20204]

Didn't see the game. Was the injury really that bad? To the point where he can't be traded now

[trwi7]

Didn't see the game. Was the injury really that bad? To the point where he can't be traded now

X-Rays were negative and MRI is coming tomorrow, but he smashed his hand/wrist into the concrete pretty good.

 

 

[shelmark]

The Braves have an embarrassment of riches in pitching at the minor league level. We simply have an embarrassment. Melvin mentioned Peralta, Rivas, Odorizzi, Heckathorn, and Rogers. We need to get two of the Braves pitchers even if we need to throw in some extra pieces. Two of Minor, Beachy, Delgado, Teheran would probably be too much for Hart alone. My preference would be Delgado and Teheran, both of whom were just promoted to AA. If you can flip Prince for Hudson and use a piece of that deal to get Pineda from Seattle, in two years you could have...

 

Gallardo

Pineda

Hudson

Delgado

Teheran

 

I know it's not going to happen but I can dream.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

I said this in the other thread, but I pray that Corey's going to be okay. I'm really hoping for some minor bruising or a sprain at worst.

 

Talk about awful luck.

[804Sox]

A poster on the Brewers.com site from the Red Sox wonders what we'd need to deal Hart there. Would Lars Anderson and Michael Bowden be a good enough haul. Anderson could take over for Prince at first and Bowden may well have #3 starter potential and will be controllable for five years. Thoughts on this proposal???

Anderson would be good, but I don't care much for Bowden. Most of the scouting reports I've read portray him as more of a middle reliever than a potential #3. It's possible that given a chance to pitch regularly outside of the AL East he could pull an Ian Kennedy, but from what I understand he has the least upside of any (starting) pitcher mentioned so far.

Personally, I would not go for that offer form the Sox POV, but I value Hart much less than many here (injury concerns aside). Just a couple notes on Bowden:

 

He reworked his mechanics during the offseason and struggled considerably out of the gate after having performed really well at AAA over the previous season +. He has rebounded nicely since the middle of May. Recently, he was converted to the 'pen, presumably to help Boston's desperate situation there and because this is his last option year (so he'll need to stick on the Sox somewhere going into next season). It seems his velocity has played up a bit in short stints, and the results have been really impressive. For what it's worth, he pitched a scoreless inning with 2 Ks in his lone appearance in Boston so far this year (small sample, obviously). Having followed him for years, I think his potential is definitely higher than middle relief. I'm optimistic that he could become a reliable bridge/setup reliever for the Sox in the near future (7th/8th inning), but also think he has the stuff and stamina to fit into the back end of most rotations, perhaps slotting higher in the NL (#3?). It's just hard to write off a player that has pitched extremely well at every level (while being young for his competition) except for 23 innings at the MLB level spread over a half-dozen trips and 3 years. That said, you are correct that his upside is less than pitchers like Delgado and even Minor.

 

Correction: Bowden has made two other appearances since his first outing totaling 1.1 scoreless innings (though less stellar than this first).

[nate82]

The Brewers turned down a trade of Bowden for Hardy last season. I don't see them trading Hart for Bowden either. The Brewers management and scouts just do not like Bowden and believe he is reliever and nothing more and I am not even sure Bowden will be a good reliever.

[Bnowell4evr]

Bowden just isn't a good fit for Milwaukee being an extreme fly ball pitcher. His 0.32 GO/AO ratio in AAA is a recipe for disaster.

[Never Outhustled]

I don't know how Lars Anderson would be a replacement for Fielder, he's not close to be ready. In AAA at the same age Escobar was last year, he has a lower OPS than Escobar did, and Escobar's wasn't good. Escobar is hitting to his MLEs this year, with a 643 OPS. Pretty sure I don't want that kind of production at 1B.

 

The Red Sox have a decent farm system, but its abysmal if you compare it to other teams by dollars spent per production. If it wasn't for overslot signings, they'd be terrible.

[pogokat]

per rotoworld, the mri revealed it was just a bruise...

 

corey is day to day...let the giants speculation begin again

[dpapo]

What I also found interesting with the Rosenthal tweet was that the Giants had a scout at the Brewers game last night. Too bad Hart got hurt, even if it's just a bruise and will only miss a few days. Be interesting to see if that affects the Giants interest in any way and what they might be willing to offer. Rotoworld also mentioned that it look like the Giants had a deal in place for DeJesus before he got hurt.

 

Edit: Just to add to the DeJesus to Giants possible deal before he got hurt, the San Francisco Chronicle reported that the deal was possible being finalized and would have been for 2 minor league prospects, though they didn't say who the prospects were.

[wishicouldhit]

The Braves have an embarrassment of riches in pitching at the minor league level. We simply have an embarrassment. Melvin mentioned Peralta, Rivas, Odorizzi, Heckathorn, and Rogers. We need to get two of the Braves pitchers even if we need to throw in some extra pieces. Two of Minor, Beachy, Delgado, Teheran would probably be too much for Hart alone. My preference would be Delgado and Teheran, both of whom were just promoted to AA. If you can flip Prince for Hudson and use a piece of that deal to get Pineda from Seattle, in two years you could have...

 

Gallardo

Pineda

Hudson

Delgado

Teheran

 

I know it's not going to happen but I can dream.

i doubt they can get Teheran, but it would be reasonable to get both delgado and Beachy. In 2012, Gallardo Pineda and Hudson with 2 of Delgado/ Beachy/ Odorizzi/ Heckathorn. Sounds pretty good to me.

 

 

[RockCoCougars]

Color me a skeptic on Braves pitching since Jose Capellan. If the Brewers trade Hart, they should choose the players, not the other team. For the Braves, that means Minor. The Giants really have nothing to offer outside of Bumgarner/Sanchez. They won't trade Bumgarner and I don't want Sanchez, so no go there. 'Two prospects' from the Giants won't get it done. I don't care if they are there two highest prospects currently in the minors. The Giants' best prospects are already in MLB.

[TooLiveBrew]

Color me a skeptic on Braves pitching since Jose Capellan.

 

Tommy Hanson, Jair Jurrjens... yes I know Jurrjens came up with the Tigers, but the Braves identified him well. And the Braves haven't offered up Delgado or Beachy from anything I've seen, so that would be the Brewers picking their own guys.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

per rotoworld, the mri revealed it was just a bruise...

 

corey is day to day...let the giants speculation begin again

Good news.

I really hope we hear more speculation soon.

 

[RockCoCougars]

Color me a skeptic on Braves pitching since Jose Capellan.

 

Tommy Hanson, Jair Jurrjens... yes I know Jurrjens came up with the Tigers, but the Braves identified him well. And the Braves haven't offered up Delgado or Beachy from anything I've seen, so that would be the Brewers picking their own guys.

Exactly. I should have been more specific, color me a skeptic on pitching the Braves are willing to part with. The only one that I can remember from recent history that did anything elsewhere is Jason Schmidt.

[RyDogg66]

Wainwright turned out o.k.

[TooLiveBrew]

Exactly. I should have been more specific, color me a skeptic on pitching the Braves are willing to part with. The only one that I can remember from recent history that did anything elsewhere is Jason Schmidt.

The first one I can think of just off my head is that they gave up Neftali Feliz as part of the package to get Teixeira back in '07. Feliz has pitched very well in the bigs so far (albeit as a relief ace/CP).

 

The Braves also traded away Adam Wainwright to the Cards as part of a deal to get J.D. Drew & Eli Marrero. I could dig further to see about any others, but Wainwright alone should be ample proof that the Braves don't have a magical power to identify pitching that other teams don't. They certainly seem to be among the best in the league at identifying pitching, though.

[sheetskout]

I'm not really sure how anyone can doubt the Braves pitching development. I just don't see the logic or the history there.

[logan82]

I'm not really sure how anyone can doubt the Braves pitching development. I just don't see the logic or the history there.

Nobody doubts the Braves pitching development. They doubt that the Braves would actually trade guys worth acquiring.

[SoCalBrewfan]

There's Feliz, Wainwright, Odalis Perez fairly recently...that should be enough to show that the Braves will give up all-star grade pitching talent in the right deal. They traded Millwood when he was far from done, though that was partly financially motivated and he was obviously not a prospect at the time. Joey Devine (Kotsay deal) was really spectacular with the As for a season but then he got hurt. From the Hudson trade with Oakland, Dan Meyer also got hurt but eventually came back and pitched well in relief for Florida last year, and Juan Cruz (though not originally a Brave) has been pretty valuable too, though not for the team the Braves traded him to. Jeff Locke is a pretty decent LHP who just was promoted to AA with the Pirates after coming over in the Nate McLouth deal...though the other pitcher in that deal (Charlie Morton) has stunk after a reasonably promising season in '09.

 

That said, trading for pitching prospects is inherently risky, whether you're trading with the Braves or anyone else. Like TLB, I don't like assuming that any team has a mystical ability to trade players at just the right time. Pitchers are just volatile, and sometimes the team that trades for a young pitcher gives up before he gets established (see de la Rosa as a good example).