Hart Trade Thread: Latest-- Does Hart's injury mean no deal?

[ILuvDaBush]

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/ask-ba/2010/2610308.html

 

Baseball America, in their recent "Ask BA" segment, reaffirmed the position that the Ukraine is weak... I mean that San Fran's farm system is quite weak. I don't know if the Bay Area is the best destination for our backwater yokel of an OF.

[JohnBriggs12]

I actually would prefer the Brewers focus on a Fielder to the White Sox for Daniel Hudson deal. Hudson's a couple years older than Bumgarner, and thus would be under control farther into his prime. He's also righthanded. Hart's still risky, but he doesn't have Boras as his agent which makes signing him more plausible.

 

Either way, Hart for Bumgarner or Fielder for Hudson, I think it's going to take a Parra thrown in to get it done with another player back from the Giants or White Sox.

[endaround]

Parra isn't a throw in

[Hofbraunhaus]

So this is slightly off topic but if Hart continues on his hitting streak into the 30's or 40's, do you think that would affect whether or not the Brewers go through with a trade involving Hart. I would have to imagine the possibility of bringing in fans due to the buzz about a historical streak would have to be in the back of their minds. Obviously, this is hypothetical as Hart still has a ways to go.

[patrickgpe]

any chance the giants would move jonathon sanchez straight up for hart?

[ILuvDaBush]

I would imagine that Sanchez could be had for Hart, but I don't think another lefty with questionable command is the avenue we should embark down. Didn't Doug Melvin characterize Sanchez as a "#5 pitcher" when asked about the Hardy-to-the-Giants rumor a year and a half ago?

[Oldcity]

I wouldn't want Sanchez for Hart. He's about to get expensive, his velocity is down, and he walks too many. He's an upgrade for their rotation now, but the Brewers should be going for long term solutions.

[RockCoCougars]

any chance the giants would move jonathon sanchez straight up for hart?

Why would you do that? If Sanchez and Parra switched jerseys, it would probably take weeks for most of us to notice.

[Robideaux]

any chance the giants would move jonathon sanchez straight up for hart?

Why would you do that? If Sanchez and Parra switched jerseys, it would probably take weeks for most of us to notice.

The Brewers would do it because Hart is a streaky, low-OBP average outfielder who is in the midst of a good couple of months and whose value will likely never be higher. And Sanchez would be the Brewers best pitcher not named Gallardo.

[Funketown]

I don't think it's fair to call Sanchez a #5. His peripherals match up to (or are slightly better than) Parra's, and he also has been able to keep runs off the board better than Parra. Now, whether his ERA is lower simply due to luck/babip/good defense I don't know, but he certainly isn't a #5 pitcher.

 

If we could get Bumgartner for Hart, I'd pull the trigger immediately. Hart has been awesome this year, but I really don't think he has a lot of excess value going forward, and Bumgartner should.

[Hate those Rodents]

Robideaux wrote:

The Brewers would do it because Hart is a streaky, low-OBP average outfielder who is in the midst of a good couple of months and whose value will likely never be higher.

I bolded why there is no chance Doug Melvin will trade Corey Hart. He trades players at their lowest, not at their highest.

 

 

[crewcrazy]

If Anthony Witrado wanted to link to a legitimate source when discussing the Hart-to-San Francisco rumors, he could've linked to this update by Hank Schulman of the San Francisco Chronicle:

 

General manager Brian Sabean is in town watching the Brewers, and the one he might be focusing on is right fielder Corey Hart, from what I'm hearing today.

 

I don't know how far along any talks might be, but I do know that Sabean and Brewers GM Doug Melvin have a good relationship and remember, they actually did a face-to-face deal in San Francisco when the Giants traded Ray Durham.

 

Hart is in the Brewers' lineup tonight, so I can't imagine a deal is done, but Hart would make more sense for the Giants than Ryan Braun (because he is unattainable) or Prince Fielder (the Giants have enough body types like that).

 

Hart is an All-Star and under team control for one more year, so I can't imagine he'd come cheaply. I'd have to think Milwaukee would want a major-league-ready pitcher.

 

Hart has 19 homers and 61 RBIs this season with a .288/.350/.573 slash line. He is big, only 28 and would fit nicely in this lineup.

 

Hart hasn't heard anything official, but he's heard his name in trade rumors and just told the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, "My dad is addicted to (trade websites) so he called me and said, 'I hear you're going to the Giants today.' I try not to think about it."

 

Let's see how it plays out. Again, Hart is in the lineup for Milwaukee, which suggests nothing is done.

When asked on Twitter about what he might cost, Schulman replied "Sanchez +". I want to say "blech" but at the start of the year I think we'd be happy to get that for him, and if we're all assuming he's playing over his head now, it might not end up being that bad in the long run. As bad as his reputation is, Sabean isn't completely stupid.

 

Edit: Right after I post this, Baggarly has a follow up via Twitter.

 

Brewers only

dealing C. Hart this week if another club overpays. And my intel says

Giants aren't sufficiently enamored w/Hart to do that.

Specifically, Giants wonder if Hart's numbers

aren't an inflated product of his lineup, ballpark. It's a lot different

in NL West parks.

[trwi7]

Adding more fuel to the fire.

 

https://twitter.com/hankschulman/status/17902770259

 

https://twitter.com/hankschulman/status/17902855695

 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/giants/detail?blogid=22&entry_id=67290

[derflotr]

It's not that Miller Park inflates numbers, it's that NL west parks deflate them. Pretty much everyone's going to take a power hit getting traded to SF.

[dadofandrew]

I don't think expensive will scare the Crew away, they're losing a ton of salary off the books, plus Prince and Corey, probably will make about $22M next year. Sanchez is probably still improving, he's still youngish, but he still isn't averaging 6 IP/S. Plus SP's who only give you 180 IP's are few and far between.

 

I would assume Runzler and Wheeler would bring laughter. I can't even imagine a package working, so Doug/Gord will have a very tough time. Waldis Joaquin and Thomas Neal might fit somehow into a package with Hart and a reliever.

[RockCoCougars]

If all the Giants are offering up for Hart is Sanchez, they can pound sand as far as I'm concerned. The Brewers already have a 28 year old lefty with 'stuff' who hasn't been able to get it together for any period of time. Going further, just as Hart's power would be hurt playing in San Francisco, Sanchez' stats are somewhat misleading because he pitches there. I like his K/9 rate, his batting average against, and his E.R.A., but I don't like the fact that he walks almost 5 guys per 9 and less then 6 IP per start. The Brewers already have enough starters that burn the bullpen.

[804Sox]

For what it's worth, I saw Brandon Belt in AA Richmond a couple days ago and he looked really good (in only his 2nd or 3rd game). You have to take his Cal League stats with a grain of salt, but the power's legit and I think he'll hit for decent contact/average too. He has a nice, balanced stance and generates tremendous bat-speed with a stroke that was much more compact than I expected for a power hitter in his first pro season. I think he's a definite player to target in a Fielder deal, but not a player Hart could return.

 

Thomas Neal has looked good the couple times I've seen him too. He has a CANNON arm in the OF - one of the best OF arms I've seen in person - and does a good job staying back on pitches and taking what the pitcher gives him (going back up the middle, oppo field, etc). Don't see a star player, but definitely a solid contributor.

 

Finally, the Bumgarner pipe dreams need to stop. I think we all saw why tonight - Bumgarner is a legit elite prospect and Hart is just not THAT good. I think getting Sanchez would be a steal for the Brewers for Hart. I really don't see him returning much more than Kieschnick(who has not impressed me)/Neal plus a Maday/Michael Main type pitcher - obviously not the haul many of you anticipate.

[Invader3K]

Yeah, I doubt there's any way they give up Bumgarner at this point. However, Sanchez doesn't excite me at all, either.

[RockCoCougars]

I think Bumgarner is a pipe dream as well. Although you have to temper his performance tonight with the fact that the Brewers have been making guys look like Cy Young in their first start against them for decades. That said, though he didn't appear to have dominating stuff (only hitting 91-92 mph), I came away pretty impressed. I was also surprised that they let him go 8 innings. Macha would have pulled him for sure after the 7th.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

Finally, the Bumgarner pipe dreams need to stop. I think we all saw why tonight - Bumgarner is a legit elite prospect and Hart is just not THAT good. I think getting Sanchez would be a steal for the Brewers for Hart. I really don't see him returning much more than Kieschnick(who has not impressed me)/Neal plus a Maday/Michael Main type pitcher - obviously not the haul many of you anticipate.

I have no idea why would you think Sanchez would be a steal for Hart. The guy will be turning 28 (!) at the end of this year. Has command issues.

I think you seriously underestimate Hart which Brewers fans did at the beginning of this guy. Teams covet power which Hart certainly brings. If Melvin dealt Hart for Sanchez, I'd be furious.

[NievesNoNO]

I have no idea why would you think Sanchez would be a steal for Hart. The guy will be turning 28 (!) at the end of this year. Has command issues.

I think you seriously underestimate Hart which Brewers fans did at the beginning of this guy. Teams covet power which Hart certainly brings. If Melvin dealt Hart for Sanchez, I'd be furious.

Count me in as someone who thinks Sanchez would be a nice return for Hart. The only issue I would have is his service time. I believe he has one arbitration year left. Sanchez would be the 2nd best pitcher on the Brewers by a long shot. I know that's not saying much but the guy has improved each of the last 3 years and can strike out a guy per inning at the Major League level.

 

 

[RockCoCougars]

No more left-handed starters please. Sanchez isn't enough for Hart, he's just another 'guy' who is at best a #3, (and more likely a #4/5) on a good team. He can't throw strikes consistently and not only would he be yet another bullpen burner, consider the fact that the Brewers defense is very adept a turning walks into runs. For a change this year his ERA is under 5, but Wolf had a nice ERA last year too. Put Sanchez in Miller Park and watch that ERA skyrocket.

 

Up and down that Giant lineup is pretty brutal. So far this week, their best offensive weapon has been the Brewers defense. Let the Giants miss the playoffs again this year because of a putrid offense. Maybe this offseason they will be more willing to give to get. I don't think that it's unreasonable to expect more than a guy with a career ERA of 4.5 and a career WHIP of 1.4 for a player who has been to 2 of the last 3 all star games, and has been one of the best hitters in baseball this year.

 

I'm not sure why everyone seems to think that Hart's season is a fluke. Will he keep this pace up? No, but there is nothing to suggest that he can't be a very solid hitter for the next several years. I give the guy props, the league found his weakness, exploited it, and now he seems to have made the necessary adjustments. I think he's way undervalued here because he doesn't walk much, just as Cameron was overvalued due to his walks. It seems that the same people that want to 'sell high' on Hart were crying in their beer when Cammy was allowed to walk. I just don't get it Without the appendix thing last year, even in a bad year, Hart would have had a better year at the plate then Cameron. Hart isn't really as bad in the field as he's made out to be either. He's no Gold Glover, but he's no Kevin Mench either.

[Oldcity]

I just don't get it Without the appendix thing last year, even in a bad year, Hart would have had a better year at the plate then Cameron. Hart isn't really as bad in the field as he's made out to be either. He's no Gold Glover, but he's no Kevin Mench either.

Cameron was a very good center fielder, while Hart is a below average right fielder. They aren't comparable.

 

Anyway, just say no to Sanchez. The Brewers need to target younger players with many years of team control. Plus, I don't want yet another guy with a high walk rate. The Brewers already have plenty of those.

[brewmann04]

I keep Hart before i move him for Sanchez

[Invader3K]

Anyway, just say no to Sanchez. The Brewers need to target younger players with many years of team control. Plus, I don't want yet another guy with a high walk rate. The Brewers already have plenty of those.

Yeah, I agree with you here, Stevo. Sanchez would just not be a big upgrade over what we have now in middle-bottom of the rotation starters. Just because a guy is different doesn't mean he's better, or someone the team should covet. We need someone with more years of team control remaining. Hart is having a monster year and should be more valuable than a Sanchez type guy. I suppose if this is the only decent deal you can get, then perhaps you do the trade; but I have to believe some team out there will be willing to give up more for a guy tied for the NL lead in homers.