Hart Trade Thread: Latest-- Does Hart's injury mean no deal?

[gobrew23]

Does anyone have a scouting report for Giants 1B prospect Angel Villalona? He'd be a nice add for us if we decided on Sanchez or Wheeler as the centerpiece of a Hart deal...

Don't have a scouting report, but I remember hearing something about him being in major legal trouble for something.

 

EDIT: He's being charged for a shooting death in the Dominican Republic. Link

 

 

[Hate those Rodents]

After doing a search, it appears Villanova might have murdered some guy. Maybe I should hope for a different first base prospect...

[pingman]

"Just a thought. Would a Hart for Randall Delgado swap be fair? I really like Delgado"

 

 

As both a longtime Braves (1a) & Brewers (1b) fan I think these two teams could make a deal..... how about Hart for Delgado & 23 year old RHP Brandon Beachy

 

FWIW....the Braves promoted the 20 year old Delgado to AA & Beachy to AAA on 07/23....Beachy has "found it" this year & fits the power -pitcher description that Melvin wants ..... I guarandamntee that Beachy will be highly rated by BA

 

The Braves have historically been suckers for toolsy OF's so maybe Gomez could be worked into this deal too

[Hate those Rodents]

With the Braves, I am pretty sure we'd need Minor to work a deal. We're much more likely to add a slight piece along with Hart to get Minor than to trade with the Braves for anything else.

[monty57]

Delgado's a 20-year-old striking out more than one an inning in High-A, with a 4:1 K/BB ratio. If he's now in AA, he could possibly be MLB ready sometime next year. Definitely a nice young pitcher.

 

Is Beachy a starter or reliever (6 starts in 27 appearances)? Another high K, low BB guy.

 

I don't know anything about them other than a quick look at their stats, but they'd definitely look nice in our system. I just have to keep reminding myself that a few months ago many were calling for Hart to be DFA'd to save his salary this season, and I thought we'd give him away for nothing at season's end. Now people are saying that we need surefire #1 starting pitching prospects or no deal.

[RockCoCougars]

The 'We didn't think he had any value 3 months ago, and now we want too much for him" argument doesn't make any sense to me. If you went into the casino expecting to lose 100 bucks and walked out with a new car would you trade it for a nice motor scooter even up? After all, you didn't expect to come away with anything, a motor scooter is much better than losing 100 bucks.

 

Some guys just take a little longer to put things completely together than others. Hart is only 28. A good example of this would be Jeromy Burnitz. He had been moved by two organizations already when he got to Milwaukee. All of a sudden, he's 28 and is finally putting up some big numbers. Going further, it's not like Hart has come from no where. It's not like he's Turner Ward or something and is putting up a fluke type year. He has had a few decent years in the past 20/20 seasons, All-Star game, etc. Now that he's no longer flailing at every outside slider in the dirt that comes his way, I think it's pretty safe to say that he's not going to go Bill Hall on us.

 

After the disappointing return that we received for Hall and Hardy, I'm not ready to settle for something for him just due to the fear that he's going to 'lose it' again.

[chuckiehacks]

After the disappointing return that we received for Hall and Hardy, I'm not ready to settle for something for him just due to the fear that he's going to 'lose it' again.

This is exactly why I think they should trade him now. The reason the Brewers got such disappointing returns for JJ and Hall were becase they didn't trade them when they had value, a mistake that very well could be made again with Hart if we wait until next year (or beyond) to trade him.

 

[RockCoCougars]

After the disappointing return that we received for Hall and Hardy, I'm not ready to settle for something for him just due to the fear that he's going to 'lose it' again.

This is exactly why I think they should trade him now. The reason the Brewers got such disappointing returns for JJ and Hall were becase they didn't trade them when they had value, a mistake that very well could be made again with Hart if we wait until next year (or beyond) to trade him.

While I completely agree with you on one point, the fact that the team and the fanbase is a little snakebitten with guys flashing all star type potential and then flaming out (Hall, Turnbow, Hardy, etc.) makes trading Hart appealing. That said, someone has to pan out, don't they? That's why I'm against trading Hart unless I'm blown away with an offer. Hart already has went through somewhat of a downward spiral in his career, and instead of circling the drain, he's made some adjustments this season and is pulling himself back up in a pretty big way.

 

I think the underlying issue here is why all these guys play well in their early to mid 20's and then fall apart once they start to hit their peak seasons. Though some of it probably comes down to injuries/motivation after signing a new contract, it seems that this happens more with the Brewers than it does with other teams. Frankly, I think this warrants a look at the organization as a whole and how they handle young players.

[Hate those Rodents]

A poster on the Brewers.com site from the Red Sox wonders what we'd need to deal Hart there. Would Lars Anderson and Michael Bowden be a good enough haul. Anderson could take over for Prince at first and Bowden may well have #3 starter potential and will be controllable for five years. Thoughts on this proposal???

[trwi7]

As both a longtime Braves (1a) & Brewers (1b) fan I think these two teams could make a deal..... how about Hart for Delgado & 23 year old RHP Brandon Beachy

 

FWIW....the Braves promoted the 20 year old Delgado to AA & Beachy to AAA on 07/23....Beachy has "found it" this year & fits the power -pitcher description that Melvin wants ..... I guarandamntee that Beachy will be highly rated by BA

 

The Braves have historically been suckers for toolsy OF's so maybe Gomez could be worked into this deal too

Sounds good to me. Of course I was the one who suggested it. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

 

Hate those Rodents wrote:

---

With the Braves, I am pretty sure we'd need Minor to work a deal.

Why? Delgado is a good prospect. If we could get Beachy with Delgado, that would be amazing.

[monty57]

The 'We didn't think he had any value 3 months ago, and now we want too much for him" argument doesn't make any sense to me. If you went into the casino expecting to lose 100 bucks and walked out with a new car would you trade it for a nice motor scooter even up? After all, you didn't expect to come away with anything, a motor scooter is much better than losing 100 bucks

 

If just recently I had seen someone pushing my "new car" along the side of the road after it had repeatedly broken down, I might just take that scooter. Hart has a sordid history of high "highs" and low "lows." He may have finally found "it," or he may simply be having a good half before stinking up the joint going forward. The notion that Hart has hinted that he would like the Brewers to offer an extension and yet they continue to shop him may show that Melvin is worried that Hart is simply riding a hot streak.

 

Plus, I'd hardly think of the names being floated around in these rumors as "motor scooters." If some of these rumors are true, these players have a lot of value. Besides, I wasn't doing anything other than musing. A few months ago, we thought we had nothing out of Hart, and now we have something. I hope we're able to maximize the value of Hart, and with his streaky past, I think we maximize by trading now. If we have to "settle" for someone like Wade Davis, who is MLB-ready and probably has a floor of a #3/4 pitcher, I'm really happy. Trying to play hardball until someone gives up a young Roger Clemens is what will get phones slammed in your ear, leading us to be forced to settle for less than what is currently being offered.

 

Melvin should do his best to play teams against each other and then take the best offer he can get. Let some other team take the risk of Hart having a weak second half.

[monty57]

trwi7 or Pingman, what type "stuff" do Beachy & Delgado have? I saw their numbers, which are very good, but any additional info would be great.

 

Thanks

[trwi7]

trwi7 or Pingman, what type "stuff" do Beachy & Delgado have? I saw their numbers, which are very good, but any additional info would be great.

 

Thanks

From one of my earlier posts on Delgado.

 

 

He has a slightly above average fastball at 90-94 mph. An above average changeup (and we know how much the Brewers like the changeup) and an average curveball with the potential to be above average.

Beachy is pretty much the same though his curveball is better than his changeup.

[wishicouldhit]

scouting report on Beachy

and onDelgado.

[pingman]

both rely on 2-seam fastballs...... the Brewers should focus on building their staff around ground ball pitchers because of Miller Park's small dimensions.... & that's the value of the 2-seam fastball, even if it clicks an MPH or 3 behind the 4-seamer

 

* Delgado... keep in mind he's still only 20 & thin (think projectionable) so he should add some MPH's as his body matures

 

*Beachy .... Jim Callis from Baseball America recently Tweeted that Beachy projects as a #2 or #3 Major League starter .... in a recent start vs the Brewers' Huntsville team, Beachy had 13 strikeouts in 5 innings

 

....Bill Shanks from Fox Sports South identified Beachy as "THE breakout pitcher" in the Braves system this year ....

[NievesNoNO]

monty57[/b]]The 'We didn't think he had any value 3 months ago, and now we want too much for him" argument doesn't make any sense to me. If you went into the casino expecting to lose 100 bucks and walked out with a new car would you trade it for a nice motor scooter even up? After all, you didn't expect to come away with anything, a motor scooter is much better than losing 100 bucks

 

A few months ago, we thought we had nothing out of Hart, and now we have something. I hope we're able to maximize the value of Hart, and with his streaky past, I think we maximize by trading now. If we have to "settle" for someone like Wade Davis, who is MLB-ready and probably has a floor of a #3/4 pitcher, I'm really happy. Trying to play hardball until someone gives up a young Roger Clemens is what will get phones slammed in your ear, leading us to be forced to settle for less than what is currently being offered.

I have to agree. Even if Hart has turned a corner and will be a All-Star caliber player going forward the fact remains the Brewers still need pitching. Hart playing at an All-Star level this year hasn't made the team a contender, so even if we get what might be perceived as lesser value (pitching) than what Corey's numbers suggest he's worth we will most likely be better off.

 

 

 

[TooLiveBrew]

Delgado... keep in mind he's still only 20 & thin (think projectionable) so he should add some MPH's as his body matures

 

This was one thing I thought when looking into him a bit more. I highly doubt the Braves would part with both Delgado and Beachy for Hart, but at this point I think I'd be happy with either one.

[monty57]

Thanks guys. On Delgado "He has a chance to become a durable No. 2-3 starter and could reach the big leagues in 2011."

 

I think I'd be happy if we could get these two guys for Hart.

[pingman]

I just threw that offer against the wall .... from what I've read at MLB Rumors the Braves still have questions about Hart... but I'm guessing Melvin will demand more than one quality prospect & they need to be close to major league ready so I went with Delgado & Beachy...

 

The Braves don't want to trade Minor because he's their only high quality southpaw above A ball....

[ListachRides]

A poster on the Brewers.com site from the Red Sox wonders what we'd need to deal Hart there. Would Lars Anderson and Michael Bowden be a good enough haul. Anderson could take over for Prince at first and Bowden may well have #3 starter potential and will be controllable for five years. Thoughts on this proposal???

Anderson would be good, but I don't care much for Bowden. Most of the scouting reports I've read portray him as more of a middle reliever than a potential #3. It's possible that given a chance to pitch regularly outside of the AL East he could pull an Ian Kennedy, but from what I understand he has the least upside of any (starting) pitcher mentioned so far.

 

As for the Beachy/Delgado package, I'd much rather have Delgado and Beachy than just Minor. I've seen

Delgado ranked ahead of Minor on some lists. That's the nice thing about

the Braves and the Rays as trade partners, they both have so much pitching that there

isn't one player or prospect we need to have included. A variety of

packages could work.

[trwi7]

I would toss in more value if it meant we could get Delgado and Beachy.

 

I hope Melvin explores this.

[trwi7]

Also of note. The outfield market got thinner today as David DeJesus suffered a complete ligament tear in his right thumb and is out for the season.

[TooLiveBrew]

I just saw that. And I agree completely that I'd love to see Melvin include something else if that meant getting both Beachy & Delgado. Who knows, though, with so many teams in the market for an impact OF bat, maybe he wouldn't even have to include anything else.

[Hate those Rodents]

Wouldn't mind a buy-low on Jordan Schaefer in a Braves deal. He just got demoted today to AA. Maybe we can swap underachieving prospects with the Braves to include him in the deal (an underachieving prospect not including anyone named Mat).

[TooLiveBrew]

It's a good thing Gamel isn't underachieving then http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif