Milwaukee Bucks 2010/2011

[trwi7]

That said, I don't think Bogut makes that much of a difference. I think he's a good guy to build around

If Bogut doesn't make that much of a difference then why is he a good guy to build around?

[RockCoCougars]

That said, I don't think Bogut makes that much of a difference. I think he's a good guy to build around

If Bogut doesn't make that much of a difference then why is he a good guy to build around?

When I say 'build around' I'm not talking as a franchise player. That said, good centers are nearly impossible to find. If the Bucks had a prolific scorer, along with a point guard who could efficiently distribute the ball, I think Bogut would get that much better. The problem is finding that guy- which I will give you will have to be through the draft. I saw no one resembling that this year.

[Oldcity]

I could have gotten on board with trading Bogut if it got them the number 2 pick in some way. Derrick Williams is the only guy in this draft I'd build around, and I actually think the Timberwolves could really be good with Bogut. Rubio-Johnson-Beasley-Love-Bogut is a pretty exciting and formidable lineup.

 

If the Bucks traded Bogut for #2, they could have done a number of things. Use #10 to sell off a bad contract or two and move back (but not take on someone like SJax). Keep #10 and draft another building block. Either way, and most importantly, the team would suck next year and get a high lottery pick in a much, much stronger draft than this one. It would be another bad year, but is 30-some wins really worse than 40-some? At least there'd be an end in sight, and some exciting young players with a start to seeing a real future.

 

Instead, they're in 36 to 46-win purgatory. I have a buddy who's a Bills fan, and I make fun of him for always having a team who drafts 8-10. The Bucks are the Bills of the NBA.

[Cdiddy34]

wow. some of you guys need to stick to baseball and quit pretending you watch more than just a game here and there during the nba season and playoffs.

 

Guarantee I've seen more Bucks games than you in the past 10 years.

awesome, because i clearly singled you out.. and if you do, of course, it means you know everything there is to know and more than anybody else.

any trade to ditch those albatross contracts is positive.

 

Not when you're taking on other bad contracts and dropping in the draft.

they didn't take on any really bad contracts. nobody saw maggette going from 7 straight years of 16.8+ ppg and 5+ rpg to what he did last year. skiles has coached jackson, jackson is a competitor, plays defense, and isn't a black hole on offense. udrih is expected to be able to play with jennings which was a huge bonus for the bucks a few years ago.

hammonds

 

Exhibit A to point 1. Hammond, not Hammonds.

wow.

(they wanted ridnour but couldn't afford him).

 

They couldn't afford Luke Ridnour at $4 million but they can afford Beno Udrih at $7 million? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif

i just found a link earlier that says that ridnour wanted more money, more PT, and a chance to start than the bucks had to offer.

[trwi7]

Isn't a black hole on offense? He's terribly inefficient on offense. How is that going to help the worst offense in the NBA last season? This offense is once again going to be horrible while the defense will be good which will put the Bucks right where they're the most comfortable. 35-40 wins and a 50-50 shot to go to the playoffs in the crappy Eastern Conference.

[RockCoCougars]

Jackson will be a decent scorer, especially on a bad team, but he's not a very good shooter. This team needs someone who can shoot from medium to long range consistently....don't run me out of here for saying this, but Jason Richardson would be a great fit for this team. When Delfino is your number one scoring threat outside, you have issues. This is where Ridnour was missed last season in a big way.

[Cdiddy34]

jackson and udrih both look to be 44ish%-35%ish-80+ guys. that's certainly not terrible.

[yoshii8]

So we could have taken a guy who is a far better shot creator both for himself and for others and who is only one year older than the guy we drafted. I just don't like Harris at all. To me he's just a role player.

How many game did you watch of Tobias Harris to come to that conclusion? I was always impressed when I saw him, and thought he played w/ a lot of composure and skill, and could of scored a lot more points if he didn't have a guy like Scotty Hopson on his team. I didn't get to see too much of Alec Burks play w/ Colorado, but from what I've read and seen I don't think that Burks is that much better of a prospect. I think in all of the athletic testing Harris was equal to or better than Burks, and he is a year younger and bigger than Burks. I guess we'll just have to wait and see who becomes the better player.

[RockCoCougars]

In the Colorado games I watched, they were very porous on defense giving up lots of fast break point. Burks was a nice offensive weapon, but I actually thought that Lacedarius Dunn from Baylor was a better all around player in the Big 12. Unfortunately, he's a little short for a NBA SG, so I believe he went undrafted. Plus he's like 3-4 years older than Burks, but he's the sort of guy that I wouldn't mind bringing in as an UDFA.

[patrickgpe]

When was the last time a team in any professional sport just completely blew up the team for a 100% rebuild situation. I can't really recall anyone off the top of my head. Its impossible to do on football; in baseball marque players are traded all the time but its not like teams try to trade every good player they have for prospects.

 

the marlins in 97 is the best answer, nba-wise maybe the bulls right after jordan in 2001.

[Never Outhustled]

Yes, draft the "lazy guy." He way outproduced Brandon Roy at the same age and when you're the only one on the team that can create offense it takes a lot out of you. He wasn't a highly regarded recruit and somehow worked his way into the lottery. That doesn't sound like a lazy guy to me. 20/6/3 as a 19 year old in a good conference is well worth drafting.

 

On Harris.

 

While he did a decent job for a freshman of keeping turnovers to a minimum in the half-court (coughing the ball up on just 10.2% of his possessions, ranking him 4th), he doesn't seem to have a consistent means of scoring at this stage.

 

He ranks towards the bottom or middle of the pack in most areas, struggling in particular to score in isolation settings (.486 PPP) or jump-shots (.725 PPP, 27.5% FG%), especially in catch and shoot situations, where he's the 3rd least efficient player in this group after Malcolm Thomas and Chris Wright.

 

Not known as a spectacular athlete, Harris will surely have to improve the consistency of his jumper to make it in the NBA, but considering his age and work ethic, he should be able to do so.

On Burks.

 

Burks' ability to quickly create shots is evident in his transition numbers, as 21.8% of his possessions come on the break, the highest in the class. Burks is a talented shot creator in the halfcourt as well, with 16.1% of his possessions coming on pick-and-rolls (1st overall) and 19.0% coming on isolations (fourth overall). Burks' 0.897 PPP on isolations ranks dead in the middle of the class at ninth, but given the defensive attention he drew, it's still impressive.

 

Another interesting note on Burks' isolations is the equal rate he drove left and right, having 53 possessions on the season going right and 54 going left. His PPP was equally impressive in both directions, at 0.849 going right and 0.963 going left.

 

The area Burks fared the poorest was certainly with jump shots, where his 0.734 PPS ranked dead last, hurt by his poor three-point shooting and reliance on long two-point jumpers. Burks takes more pull-up jumpers per game (4) than any wing player in this class, but converts just 27% of these attempts. He takes far less (1.5) catch and shoot jumpers, but makes these at a 39% clip, which leaves some room for optimism that he can at least develop into a decent set-shooter.

So we could have taken a guy who is a far better shot creator both for himself and for others and who is only one year older than the guy we drafted. I just don't like Harris at all. To me he's just a role player.

 

 

 

 

 

1st, if funny how you state Burks played in a tough conference, when Harris played the 2nd toughest schedule of any team in the nation.

 

You need to find a new source for your scouting reports. They question the athletism of Harris, but not of Burks? Harris is a far more explosive leaper and has just as much lateral quickness as Burks, despite being 30 pounds bigger. Burks finished in the lane well in college, but he'll struggle at that in the NBA because he's so weak and doesn't jump well. It's the toughest skill to translate to the NBA. Without that skill, he has nothing.

 

DraftRater, which I know your familiar with, may give some false positives, but rarely gives false negatives, gave a very mediocre rating to Burks. It projects him as a role player. Even worse, that system doesn't take into account his unwillingness to defend, work on his shot, or work in the weight room. DraftRater gave a great rating to Harris, which might mean nothing, but the low rating for Burks is extremely damning.

 

Your right that one of these players projects as a role player, you just have the wrong one.

[Never Outhustled]

Jackson will be a decent scorer, especially on a bad team, but he's not a very good shooter. This team needs someone who can shoot from medium to long range consistently....don't run me out of here for saying this, but Jason Richardson would be a great fit for this team. When Delfino is your number one scoring threat outside, you have issues. This is where Ridnour was missed last season in a big way.

 

Hopefully Udrih is that guy. Beno shot 50 % from the floor last year, outstanding for a jumpshooting PG.

[Nader Raider Tim]

Again coming from someone who isn't a Basketball guy, but I always get sucked into offseason drama.

 

Does the acquisition of Beno Udrih stunt the growth of Brandon Jennings? It seemed like last year the Bucks had a glut of SF's last year. So many that from a novice's perspective players minutes spiked up and down so much because Skiles was trying to play the hot hand or the hustler. Does the glut of PG's lead to a similar situation this year? If Jennings doesn't effort to Skiles liking is Udrih going to be getting mega minutes over him? Jennings seems to be the type of guy that thinks he is amazing, already a superstar, if he is benched for Udrih is that going to motivate him or is that going to send him spiraling downward. With Stephen Jackson who can explode at any time I fear the Bucks may be putting themselves in a position where the have two potentially volatile players.

[RockCoCougars]

Hopefully Udrih is that guy. Beno shot 50 % from the floor last year, outstanding for a jumpshooting PG.

That's what I'm thinking. Now to get a shooting guard who can average 18 or more points a game.

[Cdiddy34]

Again coming from someone who isn't a Basketball guy, but I always get sucked into offseason drama.

 

Does the acquisition of Beno Udrih stunt the growth of Brandon Jennings? It seemed like last year the Bucks had a glut of SF's last year. So many that from a novice's perspective players minutes spiked up and down so much because Skiles was trying to play the hot hand or the hustler. Does the glut of PG's lead to a similar situation this year? If Jennings doesn't effort to Skiles liking is Udrih going to be getting mega minutes over him? Jennings seems to be the type of guy that thinks he is amazing, already a superstar, if he is benched for Udrih is that going to motivate him or is that going to send him spiraling downward. With Stephen Jackson who can explode at any time I fear the Bucks may be putting themselves in a position where the have two potentially volatile players.

no. luke ridnour didn't stunt the development of jennings.. it made him better. stephen jackson, again, is NOT a locker room cancer.. may he get angry? yeah.. will he talk? yeah.. is he a great teammate? by most/all accounts.. YES. he WANTS TO WIN. he HATES losing and isn't afraid to call people out when they lose.

 

[GB12]

Hopefully Udrih is that guy. Beno shot 50 % from the floor last year, outstanding for a jumpshooting PG.

That's what I'm thinking. Now to get a shooting guard who can average 18 or more points a game.

Stephen Jackson has done that 4 of the past 5 years, with 3 being 20+.

[trwi7]

Stephen Jackson has done that 4 of the past 5 years, with 3 being 20+.

 

Why is there no attention paid to efficiency? Sure Jackson scores 20 points a game but it's on bad efficiency. That doesn't help the least efficient offense in the NBA.

[nate82]

I wish the Bucks would have went with Holiday instead of Jennings in the 2009 draft. Holiday is a better defender than Jennings and he is actually better at scoring effectively than Jennings which I actually found surprising. Jennings actually improved his eFG% this year though it wasn't by all that much and his true shooting percentage also increased. Holiday had a slight slip in both of those stats. I still wish the Bucks would have went with Holiday with that pick as I see Holiday being more of a true point guard than Jennings is.

[Never Outhustled]

Stephen Jackson has done that 4 of the past 5 years, with 3 being 20+.

 

Why is there no attention paid to efficiency? Sure Jackson scores 20 points a game but it's on bad efficiency. That doesn't help the least efficient offense in the NBA.

 

Jax is an inefficient shooter, but he also creates shots for others. That's something neither Salmons nor Maggette ever did.

 

Don't ignore Shaun Livingston in this trade either. His Player Efficiency Rating was pretty good last year, and his physical gifts return a little more each year since that horrific knee injury a few years ago. His combination of size (6'6") and quickness is rare at PG. I wanted the Bucks to sign him as the back-up PG last year, but he got more money and available playing time from Charlotte.

[trwi7]

Jax is an inefficient shooter, but he also creates shots for others. That's something neither Salmons nor Maggette ever did.

 

Maggette I agree with, Salmons I don't. He averaged 3.5 assists in his time here with awful offensive players. Jackson has averaged 3.6 the past couple years with similar awful offensive players.

 

Don't ignore Shaun Livingston in this trade either. His Player Efficiency Rating was pretty good last year

 

First of all, PER is a garbage stat. Sundiata Gaines was rated the 10th best SG according to it in 2009-2010 ahead of Kevin Martin, Ray Allen, Eric Gordon and James Harden. Second, his PER was like 14.33, 15 is average so unless by pretty good you mean below average, then I agree his PER was pretty good.

[RockCoCougars]

Jackson can score, but if he is the undisputed top scoring threat, it's going to be a bad team. if they want to win, the Bucks need a shooting guard who can score consistently both by shooting the three and getting to the line. Basically they need a Ray Allen or a 2006 Michael Redd. There look to be a lot of free agent shooting guards out there- some aging ball hog 'scorers' like McGrady and Vince Carter, and young guys like Affalo, Smith and Young who will likely stay where they are or be tremendously overpaid. I would be interested in Jason Richardson, but I have a feeling that I wouldn't be when I see the contract that he'll get. I think that if Redd is amenable to returning on a one year deal at a much reduced rate, you have to give him a look as well.

[davego]

Reds needs an opportunity to play and we certainly have a need...the world is a funny place.

[trwi7]

Redd is terrible.

[Never Outhustled]

The scorer the Bucks need to add is SG Marcus Thornton. After being dealt to Sacramento last year, Thornton averaged 21 PPG in 27 games, and did it effeciently. He's a high effort player who loves contact, can shoot the 3, he defends, and will only be 24 next year. The best part is that because the Bucks dealt Salmons to the Kings, Sacramento likely won't be willing to match offers to the restricted FA Thornton. The Bucks can use their Mid-Level Exemption to sign Thornton.

[yoshii8]

Thornton would be a nice pickup. Another guy I wouldn't mind taking a chance on is Josh Howard from Washington, he's coming back from a knee injury, and missed almost all of last season, but I loved his game in Dallas.