Milwaukee Bucks 2010/2011

[Viva La Grinch]

Don't underestimate the value of dumping Maggette. Jennings grumbled at the end of the year about the attitude on the team and the lack of wanting to win by some players this past year. I gotta think the two most likely candidates he was referring to were Maggette and Salmons.

[trwi7]

The value in dumping Maggette is negated by taking on a crappy Stephen Jackson and his equally crappy contract.

[Roscoe Chill]

Dallas was going to draft him at 6th, we picked 9th. Dallas took the

risk that Dirk would still be there at 9th. We moved up to get

Traylor. If Dallas thought we would take Dirk 6th, they wouldn't have

traded with us.

Exactly. Yes the Bucks were involved in the actual transaction, but they did not give away Nowitzki. The deal was prearranged and was able to be completed because of the fact that NO ONE was going to take Nowitzki before the Bucks picked at 9. Dallas just was shrewd and gambled to get extra pieces along with their man. The Bucks had no idea how good he would be, but Don Nelson (Dallas) and Rick Pitino (Boston) were the only ones that seemed to. There are so many differences between what happened and what really happened in the NBA Draft that you could go back and rip or praise dozens of picks...but they didn't really happen. The Bucks drafted Stephon Marbury not Ray Allen for example.

[greeg35]

if Jackson decides to play with us he will fit team needs much better than Maggette did. Having a shooter besides Delfino will be nice. Nobody ever wants to be traded to the bucks; but I think he'll play for us and probably enjoy it to some extent. I've always gotten the impression that, while he seems to be a dink with no filter on his mouth, he's a competitive dink that wants to win and that will be some common ground with Skiles that Maggette never had.

I'm not head over heals over this trade by any means, mostly because it is only being made to try to rectify mistakes from last year and while it balances out our roster a little bit, it really doesn't make us better. I agree with those who are against outright tanking for the Bucks because of the aforementioned reasons: would need to get really lucky in our years with the top picks, and that if we did get lucky by the time those players would get to a point of being ready to win deep in the playoffs, they'd probably be leaving Milwaukee. I think we just need to start evaluating talent (especially in the draft) and maximizing assets better. I think Hammond is not the man for that job based on his track record. I was on board (bad draft picks notwithstanding) with him until last off season.

[Baldkin]

Dallas was going to draft him at 6th, we picked 9th. Dallas took the

risk that Dirk would still be there at 9th. We moved up to get

Traylor. If Dallas thought we would take Dirk 6th, they wouldn't have

traded with us.

Exactly. Yes the Bucks were involved in the actual transaction, but they did not give away Nowitzki. The deal was prearranged and was able to be completed because of the fact that NO ONE was going to take Nowitzki before the Bucks picked at 9. Dallas just was shrewd and gambled to get extra pieces along with their man. The Bucks had no idea how good he would be, but Don Nelson (Dallas) and Rick Pitino (Boston) were the only ones that seemed to. There are so many differences between what happened and what really happened in the NBA Draft that you could go back and rip or praise dozens of picks...but they didn't really happen. The Bucks drafted Stephon Marbury not Ray Allen for example.

Exactly. The trade was prearranged. It's just stupid antequated NBA rules that make the Bucks actually make the selection. No one rips on Bill Belichek for trading away Clay Matthews, for example, even though it was exactly the same type of trade.

[Oldcity]

if Jackson decides to play with us he will fit team needs much better than Maggette did. Having a shooter besides Delfino will be nice.

Jackson shot 41.1% last year. 33.7% from three.

[FVBrewerFan]

I'm fine with everything the Bucks did yesterday, except for Jackson. We all know the Bucks aren't done dealing. I just hope they move Jackson along the line here. There's nothing magical the Bucks can do this year to suddenly become a title contender. All they can do is continue to get marginally better. Then you hope a fresh start, a healthy Bogut/Gooden, better team attitude...all these things can factor in to have a shot at the playoffs.

 

They picked up a nice piece of the puzzle in Udrich, and have some young talent with high celings in Livingston, Sanders, and Harris. Nobody knows how good those players can be, or how long it will take. I just think with Skiles around it's important to have players who buy into what he's selling. If they do, this team can continue to get better. At some point in the next few years they just flat out have to get lucky. A guys like Haris becomes a star, they're able to somehow lure a top shelf FA, etc.

[jjfanec]

Since we were able to get someone to take Salmons and Maggette's contract what are the odds we can get someone to take Gooden's as well. Man Free agency last year was bad

[yoshii8]

Stephen Jackson is a much better basketball player than Corey Maggette. Say all you want about him, but Jackson plays his butt off, and wants to win bad. Corey Maggette was one of my least favorite Bucks ever, he plays like a broken robot. He was a fan favorite in Charlotte, and I expect the same in Milwaukee.

 

I've been a huge Beno Udrih fan the last couple of years, and think he is the perfect compliment to Jennings as a backup pg, and will also fill some SG minutes. I'm also intriuged by former top 5 pick Shawn Livingston, who has finally been healthy and put in some decent minutes over the past 2 seasons.

 

As for the draft, I was surprised by the Harris pick, but I really liked his game at UT last season. I watched a bunch of his games and always thought he played very smart and was easily the best player on a decent Tennessee team. I believe he will fit in well as a SF/PF, and hope he will be one of the gems of this draft.

 

I don't mind the Leuer pick, but I'm not thrilled by it. That being said, I thought going into his senior year he had a chance to be a mid first round pick, and I don't think he made quite the jump I thought he would make. I see a ton of promise in his game physically, but I'm not sure if he has what it takes mentally to be a good NBA player.

 

 

Overall, I think yesterday made the Bucks a better team, but I still think they need to get rid of Dooling and Brockman, and pick up another SG/SF and backup center.

[molitor fan]

As a Bucks fan Living in Charlotte and seeing many Bobcats games, I understand that Bucks fans in general have not seen Jackson's game much. I also stipulate that offensive efficiency metrics do not speak well of his game. However, Jackson was an excellent player with the Bobcats, a million times better than Maggette - who was a black hole offensively. This brief summary from a Bobcats reporter tells you all want to know about how Jackson was viewed here in Charlotte:

 

Stephen Jackson, I wish you well

 

 

 

http://blogs.charlotte.com/.a/6a00d8341c02fd53ef01538f673036970b-200wi

The Bobcats drafted hope, but they gave up a really good player.

Stephen Jackson is an especially bright talent. He imposes himself on a

defense. He can shoot, go to the basket, play defense and pass. He's

unselfish.

Some nights, he held the ball too long. Some nights, he took

fouls personally. On those nights, he devolved into a world in which

people with striped shirts were out to get him, and he made his battle

personal, at the expense of his team.

But when he was on, and he was on most nights, he was a big,

tough, guy and a good teammate who really, really, really knew the game.

Jackson appreciated Charlotte, and he appreciated fans. He's candid and smart, and he gave the franchise what he had.

 

 

This comment, taken from the Charlotte Observer, gives you an idea of what Jackson was beyond the stats - a tough leader that wanted to win and take the last shot. Yes Jackson is aging (though he is not far from Maggette in the physique department), and certainly a bit loco, but he will bring to the Bucks something it has not had in a great while. With Udrih and Livingston, I think this is a 7 win trade and the Bucks are a 42-45 win team. I know some regard this as NBA purgatory, but if this is indeed an entertaining team I greatly prefer that compared to a complete teardown - which has zero guarantees

[brwrsfan]

What's the deal with Ersan? Everyone seems to think he hates it here, but I can't recall seeing those comments anywhere? Did he say that at some point? Leuer seems very similar so it would make sense if he's gone. Wonder if we can get anything for him? He has some useable skills and is cheap...?

[patrickgpe]

i don't think he is unhappy here, but he did say that he wanted to a buyout to go back overseas.

[GAME05]

so aren't we essentially trading one bunch of veterans for an identical bunch of veterans? you know, like we did last year and the year before?

[jnatro]

How can you not be frustrated that for a split-second we had rights to a franchise-changing Hall of Famer? I guess you're saying just treat it like we passed on him like the other eight teams before us did, and I understand that, but I can't help but feel a little sick seeing his name listed next to the Bucks as a draft selection knowing we have nothing to show for it. That's all....

Dallas was going to draft him at 6th, we picked 9th. Dallas took the risk that Dirk would still be there at 9th. We moved up to get Traylor. If Dallas thought we would take Dirk 6th, they wouldn't have traded with us.

 

Trwi7 - Exactly.

[brwrsfan]

so aren't we essentially trading one bunch of veterans for an identical bunch of veterans? you know, like we did last year and the year before?

Yeah, this is the problem. The Bucks just keep spinning the wheels every single year. We constantly are making trades that don't amount to much. We keep blowing draft picks. We're just stuck in the mediocre rut and we probably won't find a way out of it without completely rebuilding. Which we never, ever seem to want to do.

 

[ninja33]

The Bucks could have dumped Salmons with the 10th pick and gotten Udrih and the 7th pick. Instead they get Charlotte involved and make a lateral Maggette for Jackson move but drop 9 spots. That's horrible asset management by a horrible GM and horrible franchise.

How is Maggette for Jackson lateral? He's probably not worth his contract, but jackson is definitely an upgrade. Aside from the intangible type of things like Jackson wanting to win vs. Maggette's apathy...he's a more complete offensive player. Whereas Maggette's offense consists of putting his head down and trying to draw contact (and looking lazier than ever trying to do it this year), Jackson is capable of creating offense for the rest of the team and making a pass (3.5 assists per game isn't great, but it's an upgrade). Combine that with the fact that he seems to care and will put in work on the defensive end, and he's an upgrade. I really think the team just had to get rid of Maggette. He contributed nothing on the floor and was not a good person to have in a locker room around a young team.

Moving down nine spots in the draft is a lot, but in a really really weak draft it's a move you can make with few regrets (I think Kawhi Leonard is the only player who can make them regret the deal, and he cancelled a workout with the team bc he wasn't supposed to be available at 10). It's not a great trade by any means, and it would have been a lot better if we didn't sign salmons in the first place....but I think it's enough to get the team back to the playoffs. And worst case scenario the team still has the same problems, but at least they saved money. Either way, Kings fans are going to be more upset with the deal.

[trwi7]

I'm not seeing the upgrade from Maggette to Jackson. He's 33 and terribly inefficient on offense. I don't want him here or playing at all.

[FVBrewerFan]

The upgrade is chemistry. Basketball is a team sport, you can't just plug in numbers like you can to a larger degree in baseball. As others have said, Jackson has his own issues. But at least he's a warrior. The anti-Maggette in that regard. In short, Jackson can make the team around him better. Maggette can't...and didn't.

[trwi7]

Jackson is an inefficient chucker in his mid 30s. Excuse me for not believing he will make the team better.

[Gobias Industries]

I can't believe the Nowitzki/Bucks thing still even gets mentioned. Trwi7 did a good job explaining the scenario, but iirc Dallas was the only team that even seriously scouted him. The only gripe you could possibly have about that draft was not staying at 9 and picking Paul Pierce.

 

After reflecting on the trade a bit more I like it less. Udrih and Jackson are slight upgrades, but we're still in no mans land with no cap space. It's remarkable how circular Hammond's tenure has been.

 

Also, I still don't understand what the hell Sacramento is doing. Did they actually want Salmons? Is an extra draft pick going to them that just hasn't been reported? From their pov, it's one of the most puzzling trades I've ever seen.

[molitor fan]

your facts are just wrong in terms of him being a chucker - thus being selfish....as many times as you say it, it will not become truth....while his efficiency ratio is suboptimal, the people that see Jackson on a regular basis such as Bonnell and myself know that comparing him in any sense to Maggette is implicitly incorrect.

[samwise]

A question to those who did not like the trade.

 

Are the Milwaukee Bucks a better basketball team today then they were Thursday morning?

[GAME05]

we're four wins better than last year!!!!

[patrickgpe]

sam i'm not sure how fair of a question that is, last years team performed below expectations alot due to injuries. They could have brought out last years roster healthy and be a better basketball team than last year. baring another huge move the bucks are slotted to be a 40 win team, which will get the the 8th seed or drafting late in the lottery.

[Paulus88]

What confuses me is the message that is sent by yesterdays moves. On one hand we acquire veterans and downgrade our draft pick in a win now type deal (though they still only have a ceiling of mediocrity). Then, instead of taking high floor draft picks, they select developmental prospects. So now the Bucks have three or four develomental prospects on their roster who can't really help the team win now (Sanders, Harris, Leuer, Hobson). Furthermore, none of them have the type of ceilings that creates hope for the furture if they develop.

 

So we're on a mediocrity now-mediocrity forever treadmill, have they never heard of the term "NBA Hell".