Milwaukee Bucks 2010/2011

[Never Outhustled]

Rumors spreading about a deal with Wolves that includes Bogut and our tenth in which we would receive the 2nd, perhaps the 20th, and filler. My guess is the filler would look something like Martell Webster, Luke Ridnour and a 25 year old center named Pekovic that for some reason makes over 4 million.

 

I'm guessing part of the filler would be Darko Milicic, and than any of Webster, Pecovic, Ridnaur, Wesley Johnson, or Jonny Flynn would fill the salary exchange requirements.

 

I really like Derrick Williams, but fear I might spend the next 20 years watching a donut team. I hated not having a center, not sure if I want to go back to that.

[LouisEly]

I'm going out on a limb here, but I don't think there is one guy in this draft that you can build around.

That's the point. We would be in favor of trading Bogut if this was a draft class like 2003 or 1996 or maybe 2007 or even 2008. But this is looking like a weak draft class, so why not wait until it's a stronger draft? No point in dumping your strongest trading chip when there is a weak draft class and nothing to build around.

 

The answer is getting high lotto picks.

 

Not quite - the answer is getting high lotto picks in years where there is talent and depth in the draft. And with the lotto there's no guarantee that you'll get a top 2-3 pick even if you have one of the worst 2-3 records in the league.

 

The other thing that is hampering the Bucks chances of landing a star player is that high school players are no longer eligible. It is less likely that a Kobe Bryant will slip to #13 or an Andrew Bynum slip to #10 or a Tracy McGrady slip to #9 because these guys now have to go to college or Europe where scouts will have a better idea of how they do against better competition. Also with being able to hold their rights now for several years coupled with having to wait a year after high school, those guys are less likely to hold out if a team they don't like drafts them because they won't want to wait three years before playing.

[trwi7]

Talent and depth in the draft? You mean like 2012? We trade Bogut this year and we get pushed up about 7-9 spots in the draft next year. That has to be factored in to the return of the deal as well.

[RockCoCougars]

Here is one that I would strongly consider, though I don't know if the Wolves would since apparently they are moving Flynn.

 

Bogut for Ridnour, Milicic and #20 this year and Minnesota's 2012 first. If Minnesota added Bogut, the #2 and Rubio to what they have (Love, Beasley, etc.), it's almost a sure sure bet that we won't be looking at a #2 again next season, but the odds are pretty high that it would still be a lottery pick in what by all accounts will be a deeper draft. Not to mention that this would help ensure a Bucks 'tank', so they'd probably be looking at two lottery picks next year, along with the 10 and 20 this year. It worked in the trade checker, so I'm not sure whether the draft picks would render it moot. I'm no expert on NBA capology.

[trwi7]

Minnesota doesn't have a 2012 1st, it's going to the Clippers.

[RockCoCougars]

Minnesota doesn't have a 2012 1st, it's going to the Clippers.

Scratch that plan then.

[Nader Raider Tim]

I pay little to no attention to basketball, but I do keep up on the Bucks and catch a game here and there in a bar. So I am going to put out there my uneducated opinion.

 

Brandon Jennings and Andrew Bogut just don't seem to fit well together. The games I've watched it seems like the fast paced game that Jennings excels doesn't fit Andrew Bogut. Bogut seems slow and unathletic. Honestly I'd like to see one of them go. Derrick Williams as a Power Forward seems like a great pairing to put with Jennings, it would give the Bucks an exciting duo to build around. I am totally not saying I know what is best for the Bucks, in Basketball it seems a bit random how certain teams gel. As an aside I don't know if Jennings will ever fit in ideally with Skiles.

 

The Bucks with a Jennings, Salmons, Delfino, Williams, Gooden/Sanders lineup isn't that amazing but it does have some nice potential, and has the ability to be fun and sexy.

 

Also wanted to bring this up, with Kohl retiring I've been wondering if he's going to be, at least open to the idea of selling or moving the team. Jennings and Williams could be nice pieces to try and market the club to potential buyers. Jennings and Bogut, meh might be a better duo but I doubt it is as marketable. Even if Kohl plans on keeping the Bucks in Milwaukee then Jennings and Williams might be able to boost fan support and help in getting a new stadium.

 

 

I doubt the Cavaliers would do this but I would be trying to offer Bogut to them for the 4th pick and Sessions and $ filler. The Cav's then could double up on Australians with Bogut and Kyrie Irving. The Bucks could then pull down Kanter and Burks.

[trwi7]

Jennings/Salmons/Delfino/Williams/Sanders would be awful. They probably win about 25 games tops, which is fine as long as they don't make moves to try to improve from the 25 wins they would win.

 

And Kohl will never move the Bucks. The only way he sells is if it's to someone who is guaranteed to keep the team here.

[RockCoCougars]

I think Williams is a small forward in the pros. I liked his game close to the basket at AZ, but how will that translate to the NBA? He shot the lights out last year as well. There's a lot to like, but something about him screams 'bust' to me- he actually reminds me a lot of Marvin Williams, a little stockier but the same kind of game.

[carniesandrubes]

Jennings/Salmons/Delfino/Williams/Sanders would be awful. They probably win about 25 games tops, which is fine as long as they don't make moves to try to improve from the 25 wins they would win.

Exactly. Their goal every year seems to be to go for the 8 seed, so they end up either a first-round playoff loser or with a bad position in the draft and no playoffs. The Bucks fanbase can tolerate a few years of tanking if there are people in charge who will know what to do with the assetts that tanking gets you.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I'm in heavy favor of a rebuild. Wouldn't bother me at all as a fan, because I know that the Bucks will never get anywhere with the current team they have. First step to a rebuild is trading Bogut. Then we try to stockpile lottery picks in anyway possible. If Hammond can't dump his crappy contracts now that's ok. Just sit on them and if they suck, that helps the rebuild, if they play well, it build trade value so we can dump them at the deadline or next offseason. No one on this team should be considered untouchable. There is no one close to that good on the roster.

[trwi7]

I think Williams is a small forward in the pros.

Do you think Blake Griffin is a small forward? Because their measurements are almost exactly the same.

 

Height:

 

Griffin - 6'10''

Williams - 6'8.75''

 

Weight:

 

Griffin - 248

Williams - 248

 

Wingspan:

 

Griffin - 6'11.25''

Williams - 7'1.5''

 

Reach:

 

Griffin - 8'9''

Williams - 9'

 

No Step Vert:

 

Griffin - 32''

Williams - 29''

 

Max Vert:

 

Griffin - 35.5''

Williams - 34.5''

 

Bench:

 

Griffin - 22

Williams - 19

 

Agility:

 

Griffin - 10.95

Williams - 11.03

 

Sprint:

 

Griffin - 3.28

Williams 3.23

 

And compare their college stats:

 

Griffin - 18.8 points, 11.8 rebounds, 2.1 assists, .631 TS%

Williams - 17.7 points, 7.7 rebounds, .9 assists, .674 TS%

 

So Griffin is a better passer and rebounder and they're pretty much the same scorers though Williams was more efficient. I'm not saying Williams is going to be as good as Griffin but he's incredibly underrated.

[JJHardy7]

I'm in heavy favor of a rebuild. Wouldn't bother me at all as a fan, because I know that the Bucks will never get anywhere with the current team they have.

 

The fan that only goes to games and cheers on the team when they win games though probably would be bothered. To me, that's the biggest problem the Bucks are in. It's not like the Bucks have a large, loyal fanbase. I'd have to imagine that if the Bucks don't compete the next few years they're going to need to hit on draft picks and turn it around quick...or they'll be the Las Vegas Bucks.

 

I think if they are going to blow up the team Hammond might as well be canned. No need to keep him around to rebuild.

[trwi7]

I'm in heavy favor of a rebuild. Wouldn't bother me at all as a fan, because I know that the Bucks will never get anywhere with the current team they have.

 

The fan that only goes to games and cheers on the team when they win games though probably would be bothered. To me, that's the biggest problem the Bucks are in. It's not like the Bucks have a large, loyal fanbase. I'd have to imagine that if the Bucks don't compete the next few years they're going to need to hit on draft picks and turn it around quick...or they'll be the Las Vegas Bucks.

 

I think if they are going to blow up the team Hammond might as well be canned. No need to keep him around to rebuild.

Wouldn't that be all the more reason to rebuild? Do it when the fan base is small and apathetic.

 

[PrinceEatMeat]

I'm in heavy favor of a rebuild. Wouldn't bother me at all as a fan, because I know that the Bucks will never get anywhere with the current team they have.

 

The fan that only goes to games and cheers on the team when they win games though probably would be bothered. To me, that's the biggest problem the Bucks are in. It's not like the Bucks have a large, loyal fanbase. I'd have to imagine that if the Bucks don't compete the next few years they're going to need to hit on draft picks and turn it around quick...or they'll be the Las Vegas Bucks.

 

I think if they are going to blow up the team Hammond might as well be canned. No need to keep him around to rebuild.

This is the misconception everyone seems to have. The owner decides whether or not the team moves. As long as Kohl is the owner, this team isn't going anywhere. I don't see him selling anytime soon, because he won't sell to anyone wanting to move the team. We'll have plenty of time to rebuild and start competing again while Kohl is still owner. If that happens, then he should find a buyer willing to keep the team in Milwaukee.

[RockCoCougars]

And compare their college stats:

 

Griffin - 18.8 points, 11.8 rebounds, 2.1 assists, .631 TS%

Williams - 17.7 points, 7.7 rebounds, .9 assists, .674 TS%

 

So Griffin is a better passer and rebounder and they're pretty much the same scorers though Williams was more efficient. I'm not saying Williams is going to be as good as Griffin but he's incredibly underrated.

 

The low rebound total is a concern. Though he destroyed Duke, Williams didn't play against many quality big men in the Pac 10. You make a good comparison, but Griffin is taller and more athletic in my opinion. Personally, I think he's the best player in the draft, but like I said for whatever reason, he makes my 'bust radar' go off.

[trwi7]

I guess I don't see how you can downgrade Williams for not playing against many quality big men in the Pac 10 when I don't recall any great bigs that Griffin went up against in the Big 12.

[JJHardy7]

Wouldn't that be all the more reason to rebuild? Do it when the fan base is small and apathetic.

 

I just don't know how much patience the fans have. It's not a given that we rebuild and are awesome and in the finals 5 years from now. I'm not saying you are saying that, but I can see it on paper, but we still need to have a GM that pulls off the right deals. We've been waiting for that for quite some time...

 

This is the misconception everyone seems to have. The owner decides whether or not the team moves. As long as Kohl is the owner, this team isn't going anywhere. I don't see him selling anytime soon, because he won't sell to anyone wanting to move the team. We'll have plenty of time to rebuild and start competing again while Kohl is still owner. If that happens, then he should find a buyer willing to keep the team in Milwaukee.

 

Is it a misconception that this team needs a new arena? Kohl likes losing money so much that he'll keep the Bucks in the BC? This team is going somewhere unless they either make the playoffs on a consistent basis or get a new arena. I'm not saying he would like to sell, but he's spent money time and time again and the team has failed to deliver the past decade. That plus the lack of a new arena make the Bucks a prime target. I don't see how the Bucks are in Milwaukee 5 years from now unless the new CBA changes things. I hate to say that, but I believe it to be true. It just takes one offer. If there were plans 4 years from now for a new arena to be opened, I could see blowing the team up.

 

The Bucks are in a tough spot. What they are trying to do is very hard to do...no doubt. Like I've said before, missing on drafts is one thing, but the free agent moves they have made have cost the team. You can get by with one bad contract, but not more than that if you are Milwaukee. I still would like to keep Bogut and Jennings together. I also think right now Bogut's value has to be pretty low given his year last year after the big injury. BJ also didn't have a great year. I think the best thing for the Bucks would be to listen to any and all offers, but not 'blow up' the core of Bogut and BJ when their value is low. BJ is pretty young so I'd prefer to keep him if we think he's getting better. Bogut's injury history worries me.

 

I do wish that we could be good most years...I'm sick what the Bucks should do to not suck talk. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[trwi7]

I just don't know how much patience the fans have.

 

The fans have been patient for 20 years, so if they're still fans after 20 years it not much of a stretch to think they'll still be fans 3-5 years from now.

 

Obviously the Bucks need a new arena and obviously Kohl doesn't want to lose money but he loves the Bucks. He bought them because they were a candidate to be moved. He was going to sell to Jordan a few years back but it wasn't guaranteed that Jordan was going to keep the team in Milwaukee so he took the team off the market. He's just not going to move the team as long as he's the owner.

[JJHardy7]

I guess I should clarify a bit...I don't think the current fan base of the past few years is enough to support the team. They had the run a decade ago and in between made the playoffs a few times (not that it is amazing...but that gets the base a little excited more so than losing).

 

Again, if they would get a new arena that would buy them more time. I'm sure most have seen reports that the teams are losing money. Kohl may love the Bucks, but without a new arena I don't think this team sticks around. They would need the magic of the ping pong balls and get a LeBron, Wade, Duncan, Durant, etc type of player in the near term to avoid this IMO.

[trwi7]

Obviously the team isn't going to stick around without a new arena but they're not going to gain support for a new arena with a bunch of 40 win season. You have to take a step back before you can take two steps forward. If they can take two steps forward, taxpayers will be more willing to fund a new arena. Not saying they would be happy about it but they would be more willing to at least discuss it.

[davego]

Before a move can occur, there has to be a market an facility to support this team. I'm not sure if that is out there right now. Given the current status of the NBA's finance, I wonder if contraction makes more sense then relocation (not that I want to see the Bucks, or any team fold).

[PrinceEatMeat]

I think the problem with getting a new arena is that about 90% of Milwaukee could care less if the Bucks relocated. It is going to be a very tough task to get more people interested in this team. Especially enough to be able to get a new arena.

[patrickgpe]

a new BC does more than keep the bucks, but it would enhance downtown in general. I know that wisconsin is tightening its purse strings and with a weak economy its tough to ask people for more money

[patrickgpe]

http://houston.sbnation.c...ockets-trade-picks-bucks

 

take it for what its worth, if this goes down i'd guess it would be brooks at 14 and maybe a jordan hamilton at 23. i kind of like it.