Milwaukee Bucks 2010/2011

[davego]

Good point, Gobias. The roles of the holdovers can't be pushed aside because of Godden and Maggette. That is the biggest challenge I see on this team, carving production out of the entire roster. And Luc has to play more!

[Eddiehitsthefoulpole]

Gooden, Maggette, and Jennings are not good defensively. In that way Skiles is now putting a team on the floor that is more in tune with his core philosophies.

[danzig6767]

The one specific move I didn't like was signing Gooden. Not because he's a bad player, but because of the contract that he was given, I think Ersan is basically the same player, and because we had no true backup C.

That's quite the slap in the face to Ilyasova. He's everything Gooden is not. Smart, relentless motor, and underpaid. Gooden seems like a good dude, and I do like his effort more than I thought I would, but he's just not very good.

Someone on another forum posted a very telling stat about Gooden. If my memory is correct on the stat, the Bucks are now 8-3 in games that Gooden played 0-15 minutes and 4-13 in games he's played more than 15 minutes.

 

Granted, basketball is a team game and various factors besides just the play of Gooden could skew those stats a bit, but only to a degree. What lends even more credence to those stats are that for most of his career, the teams that Gooden has played on have almost always performed better in plus/minus over each season when he's not on the court. The plus/minus stat for a single player is one that generally isn't worth much in a single game because it can be influenced by the other guys on the court, but over a larger sample of games, it's more telling and teams simply have performed better when Gooden isn't on the court. This year's Bucks team being another example of that.

 

Hammond did such a great job the previous year, how he could hand 5yrs/32 million dollars though to a guy that has been dumped by numerous teams and that has consistently posted negative plus/minus numbers regardless of the team he's played on is so incredibly baffling to me. I remember when i first heard about the Gooden signing, i honestly thought it couldn't possibly be true, that the source reporting it just had to have got wrong information. That a smart GM couldn't possibly even consider giving Drew Gooden an expensive 5yr deal, much less actually offering the deal. Yet, it really was true and i have to assume that Hammond can already see that he made a big mistake, but it won't be easy to find a taker for Gooden's contract.

[LouisEly]

Let's not underestimate how difficult their schedule has been the last month - @Utah, @Denver, Miami, Orlando, @Dallas, @San Antonio, Utah, @Portland, @LAL. To come out of that stretch 6-6 with the injuries they have had bodes well for the rest of the season. The first week of January will be tough with Dallas, @Miami, @Orlando, and Miami, but after January 12th their schedule gets pretty easy.

 

All things considered, I think they are in relatively good shape right now.

[Baldkin]

The Bucks just went 6-4 over their last 10 games, while playing the toughest schedule in the NBA. Amazing.

[tigerbrew]

Watching the Bucks play their last two games was depressing, it's been a frustrating season so far with all the injuries.

[nodakfan17]

I caught a t-shirt at the game last night during the t-shirt toss! It was red and said "Go Bucks Go." A few years ago, a friend of mine caught one, but the shirt was just a walking advertisement for Harley Davidson. It always seems like the folks in the lower bowl get all of the neat giveaways while they just throw us scraps in the upper deck ... I suppose that you pay for the giveaways with the higher price of admission in the lower bowl. People LOVE getting free t-shirts (even the folks sitting near the court). I am surprised that no one has ever fallen from the upper deck while reaching for a t-shirt because I have seen some close calls.

 

I'm not a big winter sports guy, so I enjoy catching the Bucks on weekends during the winter. My only complaint (and I know I've said this before) - is the way that the Bucks now introduce the starting lineups by just saying the player's first name and expecting the crowd to yell the player's last name. I did not hear anyone in Section 400 participating in this "new tradition." Is this a case of power going to Squad 6's head?

[monkeyman343434]

Fair enough Gobias. I have to admit, I don't know a lot of the "GM details" that surround the Bucks, other than checking on their contract situations from time to time.

I really do hope they bring back both LRMAM and CDR. Would bringing both of those guys back use up all of Redd's expiring deal? I wouldn't think so, but I don't know any specifics.

 

I feel like if they bring them both back, there will have to be some other deals. I know this is very very very early, but I would think they would have:

 

Jennings/Dooling

Salmons/CDR

LRMAM/Magette/Delfino

Ersan/Gooden

Bogut/Sanders/Brockman

 

With Boykins, Skinner, and Redd being FA's?

 

I would think all 12 of those guys, with maybe Brockman as the exception, should see significant minutes, so I'm guessing there would have to be some shuffeling of players to happen, but great depth in case of injury as has happened this year. A true backup center would be very nice as well as grooming a new young backup PG. I know this isn't a perfect team, but I don't know where else they'd really be able to upgrade very much? I know it'd be nice if they could somehow deal Maggette or Gooden, but you don't want to lose too much of your depth.

 

Would they be able to make any deals to stockpile future draft picks?

[danzig6767]

Fair enough Gobias. I have to admit, I don't know a lot of the "GM details" that surround the Bucks, other than checking on their contract situations from time to time.

I really do hope they bring back both LRMAM and CDR. Would bringing both of those guys back use up all of Redd's expiring deal? I wouldn't think so, but I don't know any specifics.

 

I feel like if they bring them both back, there will have to be some other deals. I know this is very very very early, but I would think they would have:

 

Jennings/Dooling

Salmons/CDR

LRMAM/Magette/Delfino

Ersan/Gooden

Bogut/Sanders/Brockman

 

With Boykins, Skinner, and Redd being FA's?

 

I would think all 12 of those guys, with maybe Brockman as the exception, should see significant minutes, so I'm guessing there would have to be some shuffeling of players to happen, but great depth in case of injury as has happened this year. A true backup center would be very nice as well as grooming a new young backup PG. I know this isn't a perfect team, but I don't know where else they'd really be able to upgrade very much? I know it'd be nice if they could somehow deal Maggette or Gooden, but you don't want to lose too much of your depth.

 

Would they be able to make any deals to stockpile future draft picks?

Why would you be happy if next year those 12 players would be back and the main parts of the playing rotation?

 

Yea, injuries have certainly hurt, especially to Delfino and now Jennings being out. Even once Jennings gets back, this roster has serious offensive shortcomings. I do think some of the perimeter shooting woes can be attributed to simply bad luck thus far into the season, multiple guys shooting below career norms. That said though, the roster does really lack good perimeter shooting, doesn't have a guy at PF which you'd be very happy to start each night even though we have 5 power forwards/no backup center, and a Salmons/Moute duo as starters at the two wing positions would be very below average offensively.

 

This team badly could use an athletic SF who can shoot from the perimeter, score some off the dribble, and run the break with Jennings. The Bucks team the last two years have been one of the better ones in the league at creating turnovers, but they rarely are able to quickly get down the court and turn those turnovers into easy points because the roster just isn't built for it athletically. It's one of the reasons they've struggled to score more points and do it efficiently, NBA defenses as a whole are to good as a whole to have to score nearly all your points in the half court.

[jjkoestler]

With the trade deadline approaching, do you think the Bucks will make any trades? I have to imagine someone would be interested in Redd's contract.

[trwi7]

No trades because the Bucks are a failure of an organization.

[patrickgpe]

No trades because the Bucks are a failure of an organization.

 

they have no tradeable assets. In the NBA expiring contracts drive the trade market. The bucks could trade LRBM or CDR but wouldn't get much back and they are players I hope the bucks bring back. Conceivably the bucks could trade Redd, but would probably have to take salary on, which I don't think the bucks will want to do. They picked up some bad contracts this offseason (Gooden, Salmons, Maggette) that is hampering their ability to trade.

[Gobias Industries]

they have no tradeable assets.

And who's fault is that? Unfortunately for Hammond, he doesn't have the excuse of Larry Harris anymore.

 

Let's be honest here, the cupboard is a lot more bare now from when Hammond took over in 2008. And if Salmons doesn't play like Dwayne Wade for the last 30 games of the year last year, odds are Mr. Hammond would be out of a job this spring.

[patrickgpe]

I'd give Hammond another year, he was the freaking executive of the year last year. This team has been injured and never had a chance to gel. I think skiles and hammond deserves another season with this squad

[Robideaux]

I need to vent after watching Carmelo torch Milwaukee last night (sorry):

 

I was a huge Bucks fan as a kid, but the team has been floundering for 20

years now (save for one good playoff run). I just feel apathetic/ resigned to the fact that they will be bad/mediocre into perpetuity. What is the way out? I know they are in salary cap hell, but even if they had all the cap space in the world, they aren't signing a superstar. The don't have a prayer

at landing a marquee free agent, so the only chance they will ever have

at actually competing for a title is to have an incredible string of

luck:

 

(1) Win the draft lottery, (2) in a year where there is a transcendent

player available, (3) take the right player

(read: not Bogut or Big Dog), (4) have the player almost immediately

flourish into a superstar, (5) fill out the team with enough

complementary pieces to win the title before said superstar's rookie

contract is up and he demands trade to LA, NY, Miami, Chicago, etc.

 

I suppose you could get the rare American athlete--or more likely a European player-- who wouldn't mind toiling away in the NBA hinterlands, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

For what it is worth, I don't think the Bucks are long for Milwaukee.

The team will stay local as long as Kohl is in charge. But he is 76, and

I am not aware of another Milwaukee/Wisconsin based prospective owner.

If the Bucks move, I'm done with the NBA.

 

ps. I know Hammond stinks, and that bad management has contributed greatly to the current state of things, but save for drafting Chris Paul over Bogut in 2005, I can't think of another move that was/wasn't made that really could have made the Bucks a legit contender.

[RockCoCougars]

All of this doom and gloom reminds me of last year at trade deadline time. Amazing how that 'playoff run' changed people's perception. Not that it's any prize, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if this team made a late push and snuck into the playoffs again. The schedule is heavy with home games- including 6 of the next 7- and is fairly soft. The teams ahead of them are no great shakes, so if the Bucks win 6 or 7 out of 10 they could be in the eight position.

[Robideaux]

What good does sneaking into the playoffs as the 8 seed do? Basketball isn't baseball (where the best teams win 6 out of 10) or football (where each playoff round is one game). All an 8-seed means is a first-round exit and no chance at the lottery.

 

We would have been better off (from a macro) perspective if we didn't make the late run last year. It erroneously convinced Hammond/Kohl that we were better than we are, so rebuilding went out the door and bloated contracts (Maggette, Gooden, Salmons) came in.

 

In the NBA, unless you are a free-agent destination, the only way to get good is to first get really bad. 35-40 wins and a playoff birth might help boost gate receipts, but it portends sustained mediocrity.

[RockCoCougars]

What good does sneaking into the playoffs as the 8 seed do? Basketball isn't baseball (where the best teams win 6 out of 10) or football (where each playoff round is one game). All an 8-seed means is a first-round exit and no chance at the lottery.

 

We would have been better off (from a macro) perspective if we didn't make the late run last year. It erroneously convinced Hammond/Kohl that we were better than we are, so rebuilding went out the door and bloated contracts (Maggette, Gooden, Salmons) came in.

 

In the NBA, unless you are a free-agent destination, the only way to get good is to first get really bad. 35-40 wins and a playoff birth might help boost gate receipts, but it portends sustained mediocrity.

Point taken. I didn't necessarily say that it was a dream scenario, I just think that it may happen. I'll admit that I am rooting for them to make the playoffs just to make things more interesting, but I have no illusions that they have any chance at winning the championship (or even a series for that matter). The best thing that would come from this scenario would be a spark in fan interest as we saw last year. I'm not sure if it would be good for the franchise to completely dismantle and be 'really bad' for an extended period of time in the hopes of retooling. Interest is not very high now, and I couldn't imagine the level of apathy that there would be if we saw a couple of back to back 20 win seasons.

[trwi7]

The Bucks had their best season in 10 years last year and their attendance is pretty much the same as it was when they were winning less than 30 a year. People say "oh the attendance will be bad if we blow it up". I'm still looking for evidence of that.

[Baldkin]

Incredibly disappointed they did nothing at the trade deadline.

They should've been looking to move any dead spots on the roster... from Magette to Boykins to Dooling to... anyone and anything for picks and expirings. 2012 picks if possible.... lots of players are going to shy away from coming out in an already weak 2011 draft class.

[RockCoCougars]

The Bucks had their best season in 10 years last year and their attendance is pretty much the same as it was when they were winning less than 30 a year. People say "oh the attendance will be bad if we blow it up". I'm still looking for evidence of that.

Attendance may be fairly stable- though it's way down since Karl broke up the Big 3. I'm more concerned about the general apathy toward the Bucks, statewide, but particularly in Milwaukee. Many people pay little or no attention to the team and are either resigned to the fact that they will move and/or don't care. This sort of apathy will definitely hamper any push to get a new arena built. I think back to the mid to late 80's relocation rumors. This when the team was very good and much more closely followed statewide. Good thing the Pettits and Kohl stepped up as the saviors of the team. I don't see that happening again. Any out of state buyer will relocate the team, and without a new arena, I don't see anyone 'local' taking the mantle from Kohl.

 

As we've seen with the Brewers, even a short term period of moderate success will cause the bandwagon to swell. The NBA is definitely nowhere near as popular as MLB these days, but had the team built on last season and won a couple of playoff series, you can bet that there would have been tons of 'lifelong Bucks fans' around the state who don't give two spits now. As a franchise, they are kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. I can see the logic behind blowing everything up and rebuilding, but that is no guarantee, and the timing is really bad. At any rate, this has been an extremely disappointing season. Though there is a lot of second guessing going on now, lots of pundits were praising the moves that Hammond made over the off-season, and a lot of people had the Bucks as a legit contender for the Central on paper.

[trwi7]

At least 50% Bulls fans at the game tonight and the MVP chants by Bulls fans for Rose were louder than the fans for the Bucks have been all season. There couldn't be less interest in the Bucks right now.

[Invader3K]

Attendance may be fairly stable- though it's way down since Karl broke up the Big 3. I'm more concerned about the general apathy toward the Bucks, statewide, but particularly in Milwaukee. Many people pay little or no attention to the team and are either resigned to the fact that they will move and/or don't care. This sort of apathy will definitely hamper any push to get a new arena built. I think back to the mid to late 80's relocation rumors. This when the team was very good and much more closely followed statewide. Good thing the Pettits and Kohl stepped up as the saviors of the team. I don't see that happening again. Any out of state buyer will relocate the team, and without a new arena, I don't see anyone 'local' taking the mantle from Kohl.

I've heard talk on WSSP that there is a local group "waiting in the wings" to buy the Bucks from Kohl when he decides to sell. Though I take that sort of thing from people on that station with a big grain of salt.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Attendance may be fairly stable- though it's way down since Karl broke up the Big 3. I'm more concerned about the general apathy toward the Bucks, statewide, but particularly in Milwaukee. Many people pay little or no attention to the team and are either resigned to the fact that they will move and/or don't care.

This is me in a nutshell. I haven't gone to a single game since then. I've watched MAYBE 2 games this year, and don't listen on the radio. I read the box scores, and I keep up to date on the standings, but I just can't bring myself to boost my intrest level enough to ........be interested.

[bucks2281]

Just a couple of thoughts...

 

--Looking back at the offseason from a distance and with the benefit of hindsight, it's absolutely laughable that the Bucks acquired Salmons, Gooden and Maggette. There was a reason Drew Gooden played for about ten different teams during his career ... and we signed him to a fat FA deal?

 

--Herb Kohl doesn't get it. He doesn't get the notoriety like Donald Sterling or Peter Angelos, but he is the biggest reason why the Bucks have been toiling since the 1980s. Kohl is a truly atrocious owner for encouraging this vicious cycle of gunning for the 8-seed, pretty much every year except 2001 and 2010. We're 22-36 -- what's to gain from trying for 2 home games against Boston v. tanking for a potentially franchise-altering player?

 

Best-case scenario? Tank, get a good lottery slot, and lose a season to a lockout that hopefully will bring some major CBA changes, like a franchise tag, hard cap, non-guaranteed contracts, etc.