Milwaukee Bucks 2010/2011

[bullox]

By popular demand...

[patrickgpe]

probably a good idea that thread was getting long and i think was used for 2 seasons.

[BrewCrewForever]

PG: Jennings

SG: Salmons

SF: Maggette

PF: Gooden

C: Bogut

 

That seems to be a pretty darn good starting 5. Guys like Delfino, Mba Moute, Illyasova, Douglas-Roberts, Sanders, Brezec, etc. coming off the bench. I think the Bucks should be a top 4 team in the East. I just hope they can resign Ridnour or sign another good solid backup PG.

[davego]

I'd play Corey off the bench like mentioned in the previous thread, but overall the roster is better. Needs to perform 'cause we are married to this team for a bit.

 

I'd start Ersan or Luc at the #3 if they can hold up.

[Baldkin]

What I really love about the team is the matchup flexibility. Lots of guys who can play 2 positions to match up if a team goes big or small.

 

Gooden can play C, not well defensively but he can do it. Delfino can play both the 3 and the 2, Luc & Ersan can play the 3 and the 4.

 

Just loving it.

[BrewCrewForever]

What I really love about the team is the matchup flexibility. Lots of guys who can play 2 positions to match up if a team goes big or small.

 

Gooden can play C, not well defensively but he can do it. Delfino can play both the 3 and the 2, Luc & Ersan can play the 3 and the 4.

 

Just loving it.

No doubt, the ability to have guys that can play two spots really helps. Depending what guys they resign, and what rookies they keep they could have a very deep bench.

[trwi7]

PG: Jennings

SG: Salmons

SF: Maggette

PF: Gooden

C: Bogut

 

That seems to be a pretty darn good starting 5. Guys like Delfino, Mba Moute, Illyasova, Douglas-Roberts, Sanders, Brezec, etc. coming off the bench. I think the Bucks should be a top 4 team in the East. I just hope they can resign Ridnour or sign another good solid backup PG.

I hope that's not the starting lineup. I want Maggette as the 6th man, Delfino starting for shooting and defense.

 

Brezec won't be on the team. He's awful.

 

Ridnour is really the only decent option we have at backup PG. We spent our MLE on Drew Gooden for some reason and now only have our BAE which is just over $2 million to spend on a backup PG if Ridnour doesn't sign.

 

[Gobias Industries]

Ersan definitely cannot play the 3. I've heard this mentioned many times on talk radio. He's a 4.

[davego]

I think he can in certain spots, but you are correct that he isnt going to hold down the #3 for 40 min a game. I have a feel that we might be heavy at that #4 spot, but it seems that Skiles and Hammond don't worry as much about that stuff.

[Oldcity]

This is going to be the deepest Bucks team that I can remember. They've always had 1-3 scrubs on the team. There really shouldn't be anyone along the likes of Dan Gadzuric, Premos Brezic, Charlie Bell, Royale Ivey, Jake Voskuhl, and the hoards of others they've had the last 3-4 years. I don't like the Gooden signing mainly because of the length of the contract, but I'm still excited about the depth and flexibility they'll have.

[FVBrewerFan]

I like Maggette coming off the bench as well. One thing this team lacked was instant offense coming off the bench, and Maggette is perfect for that. Something tells me there's at least one more deal to get done, trading for a PG. I just don't think they'll be able to afford Ridnour.

 

The more I think about it, I'm fine with the Gooden deal. A big who can play defense and rebound, and has some at least some scoring ability. He can really help this team, plus I would think he could be moved fairly easily with that contract. Salmons on the other hand is a bigger gamble. If he looses a step it really hurts his game. It's built on penetration. If he turns into Charlie bell in two years, the Bucks are stuck with him.

[Gobias Industries]

A big revelation since the announced signings is Salmons contract is basically 4 years. That alone has me more confident in his deal rather than Gooden's. Not to mention I like Salmons' game better than Gooden's.

 

I'm a big believer in coaches' defensive schemes as a whole being more important than individual defenders, but there's no way I'm getting on board with Gooden being a good defender. Maybe Skiles can turn him into a below avg one, but for now, he's dreadful. Definitely a good rebounder though. Can get up on the O glass, which is huge.

[strawbossisevil]

Gooden is not nearly as bad defensively as you claim. All of his defensive rating stats put him at about the NBA average. In fact, over his career he has given up less defensive points per 100 touches than Kobe Bryant, someone who is respected for his defense.

 

Is he a defensive juggernaut? No.

 

Is he dreadful as you claim over and over again? Not if you are being even remotely objective.

Check out basketballreference.com, I think you'll be surprised at how average he is in nearly every defensive statistic/rating.

Edit: He also has given up 2 points less per 100 touches than Bogut over his career (although Bogut put up a very, very good season last year on the defensive end of the court and likely will remain superior going forward).

[jjkoestler]

Any interest in signing Iverson? If so, for how much? Apparently he wants to play again. IMO he would be an excellent addition to the Bucks bench.

[strawbossisevil]

If he would sign for cheap, and accept our backup PG spot, Iverson would be great. I imagine that he could be had for a short term deal as well, so we wouldn't have to commit long term to a backup PG.

[GAME05]

would he actually accept a backup/teaching role or would he still want to be the star of the team? he'd be an ideal teacher for Jennings to show him how to drive the lane.

[Gobias Industries]

Strawboss:

 

When Gooden was traded to the Clips last year, he and Camby split time at the 4 with Kaman at the 5. PG, SG, and SF were all constants (same players). Offensive efficiency was basically the same (and Camby has the rep as a poor offensive C, should be worse as a PF) and defensive efficiency was way down. Same when you do the head to head's with Craig Smith. Same thing early in the year with Dampier vs. Gooden. I expect it to continue with LRMAM and Ersan this year. (If they're not traded)

 

As for Iverson. No. He's not really a true pg, or a good mentor for BJ.

[Diskono]

AI said on his twitter a few days ago that he'll sign with whoever wants him, regardless of expected role. I think I'd probably still rather re-sign Ridnour.

[trwi7]

I can't imagine any team wanting Iverson. After he bailed on the Grizzlies last year and his overall awfulness, I don't want him.

[davego]

We do not need AI. Ick. He should explore europe or Turkey.

 

In Gooden's defense, he has not been asked to defend much. I suspect he will a) buy-in and b) be OK with other guys that defend around him. If not, everyone knows that Scott will not play him.

[JJHardy7]

I fear Ridnour is going to sign with the Knicks. If he does, my guess is it will be for at least $4 MM + given other signings. I could see him getting $6 MM from the Knicks if they strike out with the big FAs. I really hope we can somehow get him back.

 

Any concrete details on Gooden's deal? I've heard from folks it is all guaranteed and heard from other folks it isn't? Is there official word or do we have to wait a few more days?

[trwi7]

Any concrete details on Gooden's deal? I've heard from folks it is all guaranteed and heard from other folks it isn't? Is there official word or do we have to wait a few more days?

 

Pretty much everyone is saying it's guaranteed.

[yount19.u]

If AI said he would play for free for the Bucks, I would rather have to pay Royal Ivey. AI is a cancer and would offer no positives for this team. Just because he was good at driving the lane does not make him a good teacher. A good teacher has to be unselfish first. Just show Jennings video of AI driving the lane in his prime and he'll figure it out.

[strawbossisevil]

We´ll see Gobias. The numbers don´t lie though, they are objective where as our opinions based on watching a player play can lack that objectivity. If we want to objectively measure Gooden´s defensive talent, all the objective numbers suggest that he is league average, and far from "dreadful". Unless you somehow consider league average "dreadful".

 

This is the reason I can´t stand Real GM´s boards as well. The reaction to players and deals usually is way overboard and heavy on the drama.

 

Gooden to this point in his career has been an average defender and a slightly above average rebounder and offensive player. No one is claiming this guy is a superstar, but he should be an effective and welcome addition to the team, and a solid improvement at PF and backup C for the Bucks. And having a player like that at 6 M per season isn´t too bad.

 

LRMAM may be better defensively (although, strangely enough, to this point in his career he and Gooden have the same defensive rating, giving up on average 104 points per 100 touches). But LRMAM does not have the offensive or rebounding ability of a Gooden. He could develop it, I suppose, but he better start doing it soon otherwise he´s going to have earned a spot at the end of the bench.

 

Ilyasova actually rated better defensively, but his problem is also not providing enough rebounding from the PF position. He´s not a bad guy to have coming off your bench though. He just doesn´t have the talent, IMO, to be an average starting PF.

 

Now, we could definitely argue that Gooden is going to be much worse by the end of his contract, and that might be fair. But calling him defensively "dreadful" is not being objective.

[gobrew23]

LRMAM may be better defensively (although, strangely enough, to this point in his career he and Gooden have the same defensive rating, giving up on average 104 points per 100 touches). But LRMAM does not have the offensive or rebounding ability of a Gooden. He could develop it, I suppose, but he better start doing it soon otherwise he´s going to have earned a spot at the end of the bench.

strawbossisevil, I definitely agree with you that Gooden is not a "dreadful" defender. I think he is, and will be, just fine. The only thing I don't like about points per touches for a "defensive stopper" is that they are usually matched up against the opposing teams top scorer, so they are by nature going to give up more by going against them rather than a role player on that team. LRMAM is definitely a better defensive player than Gooden.