Edwin Jackson Walks 8, Throws 149 Pitches (and no-hits the Rays)

[Funketown]

Not too often you hear about a guy getting out of a bases loaded jam in a no hitter.

 

Congratulations to Jackson.

[burniebrewer]

As I just typed in the in-game thread, I started watching this game in the 7th inning. It's also not too often you hear announcers speculating that the manager has a tough decision sending the pitcher back out for the 8th and 9th based on his pitch count.

 

Sutton was not worried about being a jinx...as they went to break after each inning he mentioned the no-hitter.

[Ennder]

My respect for the no hitter just keeps going down and down, at this point I don't find them impressive in the least.

[adamb100]

Are the pitchers taking steroids this season or something? We've had like 2 perfect games, 3 no hitters so far and the season isnt even half over.

[ELCABALLO45]

I don't know how you can say "I don't find them impressive in the least".

 

Anyways, Good for Edwin Jackson.

[Ennder]

I don't know how you can say "I don't find them impressive in the least".

 

Anyways, Good for Edwin Jackson.

Because I don't? This was not one of the 30 best starts in baseball this year most likely, it certainly wasn't better than say Gallardo's last game. He had a bunch of balls hit right at guys, just doesn't impress me.

[PeaveyFury]

We've had like 2 perfect games

 

Cough.... 3.... cough.

[InsomniacInkRoss]

This game reminded me so much of this line posted in the "rarest thing" thread

 

Bobby Witt 5IP 0H 2R 2ER 8BB 10K

[BrewCrewForever]

149 pitches, wow. That is a lot of pitches. But that will happen I guess when you walk 8 hitters.

[burniebrewer]

My respect for the no hitter just keeps going down and down, at this point I don't find them impressive in the least.

While they are becoming a lot more common, I am still impressed by anyone that can shut down MLB hitters for an entire game. Sure, he walked a ton, but no hits still amaze me.

[TooLiveBrew]

I guess what it says to me is that a no-hitter can be more about luck & less about good pitching. Sometimes there are awesome performances that are no-nos, and sometimes Edwin Jackson walks 8 guys & gets completely lucky that one bloop hit or funky bounce didn't occur. I was thinking as he was going back out for the 9th, 'Can you imagine if he gets an out or two & gives up a hit?'

[burniebrewer]

I guess "effectively wild" worked out for Jackson tonight.

 

However, this could be a case of being wild (jacked up to face an ex-team) early and calming down after a first run through the order. I think 70 of his pitches came in the first 3 innings as he walked 7 of his 8 in that time frame.

[hawing]

Now the next time Dave Bush/Narvdog/Doug Davis/Randy Wolf/whoever is up to like 70 pitches in the 3rd inning, there'll be reason to leave him in...because you can still turn a start like that around and record a no-hitter!

[LouisEly]

I guess what it says to me is that a no-hitter can be more about luck & less about good pitching. Sometimes there are awesome performances that are no-nos, and sometimes Edwin Jackson walks 8 guys & gets completely lucky that one bloop hit or funky bounce didn't occur. I was thinking as he was going back out for the 9th, 'Can you imagine if he gets an out or two & gives up a hit?'

Odell Jones says hello.

[crewcrazy]

It's probably worth mentioning that Jackson also hit a batter and threw a wild pitch.

 

He ended up with a game score of 85, which would have him tied for the 23rd best pitching performance this year. Here's a sorted list of this year's best performances, with Halladay's perfecto topping the list at 98.

[logan82]

That is ridiculous. He should have not thrown that many pitches. I really don't care about a no hitter especially when he wasn't pitching well.

[Flood Pants]

I guess what it says to me is that a no-hitter can be more about luck & less about good pitching. Sometimes there are awesome performances that are no-nos, and sometimes Edwin Jackson walks 8 guys & gets completely lucky that one bloop hit or funky bounce didn't occur. I was thinking as he was going back out for the 9th, 'Can you imagine if he gets an out or two & gives up a hit?'

I think this is absolutely right that Jackson got lucky. The fact that his control was so off and he didn't manage to give up any

homeruns or extra base hits is an impressive gift from lady luck. But it's always fun to celebrate when players beat the odds. If this had been Randy Wolf's pitching line, we'd probably all be geeking out about it.

 

 

[Corn Trader]

That umpire last night had a pretty small strike zone. Even in the last few innings, he wasnt getting anything borderline

[TheCrew07]

Edwin Jackson consistently throws harder as a starting pitcher than any pitcher in the Brewers system, only Jeffress and Manzanillo have enough gas to work 97, 98 MPH and they do it in relief.

 

Jackson has always been effectively wild with his FB, but in less you watched the entire game, spare us the "he got lucky" mantra. He was completely dominant after the 3rd inning, scroll down this link for the PBP.

 

Where are the ton of hard hit balls right at people? Yes he walked a ton of batters in the first 3 innings, but he gave up 2 lineouts all game long. I admit that I like Jackson, I always have, and I admit that he's never full harnessed his control, but the truth is the Rays didn't get many good swings on him all day. He was probably a bit too amped up early in the game given he was going up against his old team, but he still pitched a no hitter. He also isn't the first pitcher to walk a ton of batters and pitch a no hitter either.

 

Edwin Jackson can pitch on my team anytime he wants. I'd rather get "lucky" with a player of his ability than be "unlucky" with the likes of Davis, Bush, Suppan, etc...

[Ennder]

 

Jackson has always been effectively wild with his FB, but in less you watched the entire game, spare us the "he got lucky" mantra

You don't throw a no hitter without getting lucky unless you strike out like 15 hitters during it. It doesn't matter how great you pitched or didn't pitch. No hitters are mostly just flukey games. The fact he gave up 8 BB during his no hitter just makes it even less impressive. Looking at this game specifically he gave up 8 flyballs, 11 ground balls and 2 LD and threw almost as many balls as strikes and none happened to fall in for hits, pretty much nothing but a fluke. His 5/17 game against Arizona was much more impressive as an example even though he gave up 4 hits.

[TooLiveBrew]

spare us the "he got lucky" mantra... Where are the ton of hard hit balls right at people?

 

I can only speak for myself but I specifically mentioned he got lucky no crap hits dropped in or no funky bounce worked against him. Nothing about he got lucky because he was giving up line drives.

 

 

He was completely dominant after the 3rd inning

 

Yeah, but that's kind of the point. He wasn't very good at all for 1/3 of the game, and needed to almost literally throw his arm off. Impressive physical exhibition? Yes. Impressive no-hitter? No.

[Corn Trader]

An unimpressive no-hitter? Is that like Jumbo shrimp?

 

The guy managed to do something only one pitcher in our franchise's history has ever pulled off. His stuff was so electric and had so much late movement that the Rays couldnt make solid contact the entire game. I don't see the point in discounting his achievement

[Funketown]

I don't think I can consider a pitcher who only strikes out four batters in a span of seven innings completely dominant. The point about luck is not that he was giving up loads of line drives, it's just that to only strike out six batters in a game and get 21 outs (20, as there was a CS) in the field without one bloop dropping for a hit or one ball finding a hole, is extremely improbable.

[TheCrew07]

I'm not going to argue semantics based on statistical analysis. The majority of his outs were weak ground balls, pop ups, or soft fly balls. Yes he walked too many batters but I'm not going to sit here and say he lucked his way into it when Jackson made pitches when he had to.

 

It's very comforting to know that players no longer possess various levels of skill, just varying degrees of luck. It's too bad we've had so many unlucky players in this organization over the years.

 

Maybe instead of looking for impact players in the draft we should come up with a way to measure their luck factor so we can win more games.

 

The guy has more natural ability than 99% of the pitchers in baseball, he can get away with mistakes other pitchers aren't able to because of his god given talents. Give the guy his due, we aren't talking about Dave Bush, we're talking about a pitcher who can miss his spot by 2 feet and still blow his FB past a batter. That's not luck, that's a special arm.

[Ennder]

It's very comforting to know that players no longer possess various levels of skill, just varying degrees of luck. It's too bad we've had so many unlucky players in this organization over the years.

 

Player skill is developed over a large sample, not a single game. We just view baseball completely differently, you are hung up on results and I'm not. I don't think we'll ever see eye to eye on these things. When 21 balls are put into play against a pitcher and not a single one finds some sort of hole it is luck, I don't care if they were all weak ground balls(which they weren't).

 

ER and H are just not stats I put much weight into over small samples, they are extremely high variance(luck if you will) and they just don't really tell you what happened. You can pitch a good game and give up a bunch of runs, you can pitch poorly and give up no runs, you can pitch a good but not great game and give up no hits, you can pitch a great game and give up 4 hits. This game wasn't Jackson's best of the season imo and it wasn't one of the 20 best in the majors this year. We'll just agree to disagree.

 

This game was 'historically significant' it just wasn't impressive.

 

As for Edwin Jackson's actual talent, I think you are giving him way too much credit in the first place. His career xFIP and ERA are right around the same as Dave Bush's and while he throws in the mid 90s he has a below average fastball beacuse it is very hittable. He has had a negative value on his fastball every year in the majors. The pitch that is keeping him in the majors is his slider.