Lucroy's effect on the pitching staff?

[bork]

Just wondering if Lucroy becoming the main catcher has anything to do with the improvement of the pitching staff? I know it's not a great stat, but he has a catcher's ERA of 4.08, compared to 5.07 for Kottaras and 5.67 for Zaun. The turnover in the pitching staff is part of the reason for the improvement, but it seems they have really settled down since he became the main catcher.

 

Any thoughts on this or is it just a coincidence?

[AJAY]

I am sure guys like Randy Wolf were probably due to play better anyway. But it does seem that everyone has improved since LuCroy has taken over. I like that he can throw out runners trying to steal. That really makes a big difference.

[And That]

LuCroy

The "c" in his name is not capitalized. Lucroy.

[Baldkin]

He's had no effect.

None.

 

We have 5 different pitchers than on opening day, and the worst ones are not getting the majority of innings anymore. Catcher ERA is a horrible stat, unless you're talking 200 innings with the same pitcher.

[Polish Falcons]

If nothing else, he has done a good job throwing runners out. He has thrown out 5 of 10 runners for a very good start on the caught stealing %, and as I recall several of those putouts came during clutch situations that could be considered a big help to Brewers pitchers.

[RobDeer 45]

I think it's too early to see his effect on pitchers and it's an unfair comparison. Totally different staff.

 

Also, didn't him and Wolf not see eye to eye the first time or two out? You will have to forgive me because I don't get to see many of the games (just listen) but I thought there was talk about that.

 

I think his arm has helped and I'm excited about the guy but I'm not ready to go say he's made our staff that much better. We'll see though.

[greeg35]

Just my opinion; but it seemed like Wolf was being unnecessarily/disproportionately difficult to work with for Lucroy. No way to measure if Lucroy has had an effect, not sure there ever will be a good way to measure effect that if it exists.

[Ennder]

ERA/xFIP by month for our starters has been...

 

April - 5.09/4.30

May - 4.63/4.94

June - 4.21/4.55

 

In April we gave up way too many HR, in May we gave up way too many BB, this month things have stabilized some and we've had good luck with BABIP and LOB% to offset some of the bad luck we had earlier in the season.

[FVBrewerFan]

Goes back to the old "calling the game" debate. What effect does a catcher have on a pitcher's performance? (and I'm talking about strictly calling the game, not throwing out runners, blocking balls in the dirt, etc.) In modern baseball, pitchers and the bench seem to call most of the pitches anyhow. I would guess that's even more the case with Lucroy back there. On a scale of 1 to 100, I would say "calling the game" is somewhere around a 3 in relevance. All teams/catchers do their homework and have meetings to decide how to pitch everyone before a series. It's not like Lucroy or any catcher is coming up with some deep, heady strategy before each pitch.

[SenatorShriv]

I think that most of our pitchers were due for slight improvements anyway. I don't think that he has looked GREAT behind the plate, but he has shown me that he has the potential to be very good defensively with a little more experience.

[diener34]

LuCroy

The "c" in his name is not capitalized. Lucroy.

If one were to spell it based on how Brian Anderson says it, thats how you would think it is spelled.

[joepepsi]

They started the season with the wrong rotation and the wrong pitching staff. It took until mid-late May for them to admit their mistakes and choose talent over Veteran Gamer Grittiness. Probably cost them the season, but they are at least playing better.

[jjfanec]

It has been said but Lucroy's biggest help to the staff has been his ability to throw out base-stealers. On a team that plays really poor defense it is nice to pick up extra outs when then can. Lucroy's defense was debated in the minors but it has looked good in a small sample size

[pretendastronaut]

They started the season with the wrong rotation and the wrong pitching staff. It took until mid-late May for them to admit their mistakes and choose talent over Veteran Gamer Grittiness. Probably cost them the season, but they are at least playing better.

 

 

 

I don't think that's really how it played out. Suppan was only given two starts, and I'm sure Davis would still be in the rotation if he hadn't developed that infection. I'd be surprised if Davis goes into the pen when he finally comes back.

[Thurston Fluff]

In April we gave up way too many HR, in May we gave up way too many BB, this month things have stabilized some and we've had good luck with BABIP and LOB% to offset some of the bad luck we had earlier in the season.

 

Sure they are giving up less home runs and BB's now but the question is does some of that drop off have to do with the catcher calling the right pitch/location or not. To some extent I would thing calling a get me over fastball in a fastball situation is going to produce more home runs because the hitter is looking for it. Same with BB's. Calling a pitch that the pitcher is having trouble getting over the plate too often means more walks. How much difference is the real question. When it come sto BB's and HR's I suspect very little is really related to the catcher but it is possible he has a knack for it.

BAPIP I think may have more to do with the catcher than some beleive. Defenders position themselves according to how they plan on pitching to the particular batter. Thus it makes some amount of sense that a catcher who calls a game according to the gameplan should help produce a more favorable BAPIP.

[wallus]

I would be more worried about his lack of BB and slugging to be honest.

[Ennder]

The 5+ bb/9 as a rotation in May was not just pitching calling, it was pitchers not being able to throw strikes. The HR blip in April most likely is just luck since it didn't come with a FB% blip. From a pure peripheral standpoint April was the best month for the starters and that was before Lucroy, they have improved from a results standpoint but results rarely mean much over such a small sample.

[Thurston Fluff]

The 5+ bb/9 as a rotation in May was not just pitching calling, it was pitchers not being able to throw strikes. The HR blip in April most likely is just luck since it didn't come with a FB% blip.

 

I don't think anyone was arguing it was all about Lacroy's game calling. I think the debate is whether it has anything to do with HR or BB. I suspect it doesn't but I cannot look at the stats and find that out. I do think how the catchers calls the game does have some impact on BAPIP but have no idea how it much. Just looking at how pitch selection effects where the ball is put into play makes the relationship between defenders position and pitch selection obvious. Thus if the catcher is calling the game the way it's supposed to be called the defenders should be in a better place to produce an out on a ball in play than if he doesn't follow the game plan.

[mletto157]

Didn't notice this topic was here and started a new one... but this is what I wrote... thoughts?

 

Has anyone else noticed that the Brewers pitching has suddenly gotten better with the promotion of Lucroy to the starting catcher? All of a sudden the Brewers are having 0-2 walks a game instead of the 4-6 they were getting before? I'm actually not sure if this is a coincidence. Since he's been up I've noticed our pitchers consistently getting more balls counted as strikes. I've started to watch his framing of the pitches and it's pretty awesome. With many catchers you see them catch the ball and move their glove to the strike zone as they are trying to frame the pitch to make it look like a strike. With Jonathan, he almost starts moving his glove from off the strike zone and continues to move it for a split second after he catches it before it stops. When watching in full speed it literally looks like he moved it to the strike zone to catch the ball and hence gets that ball called a strike. Every game when they show the strike-zone tracker on called strike threes, many of the pitches are out of the zone and Lucroy makes them look like strikes. It's really not until the replay that you even notice they were balls. I was just curious if anyone else has noticed this as well. Also, if there are any statistics to support what I've been seeing? I can't check at work since sports sites are blocked (yet I still have access to Brewerfan forums, thank God!).

[stoutdude04]

I dont really think the strike tracker is really that accurate. I also dont put a whole lot of stock into framing pitches to record more strikes.

[sheethead]

What's even odder is how Wolf continues to struggle with Kottaras.

[FVBrewerFan]

The coaching staff has put an emphasis on throwing more fastballs- especially early in counts and early on in the game. The mix in the off-speed stuff later. (At least that's what i heard from Bill Schroeder.) If that's true, it probably has a lot bigger effect on the results we're seeing than anything Lucroy is doing.

 

With that said, umpires are human. Lucroy does seem to have a subtle way of framing a strike. And if late movement on a pitch "looks" like a strike on the corner, the umpire will be more likely to call it. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it has a very big impact, but even if it's worth 2 or 3 strikes a game, it's a factor.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

The coaching staff has put an emphasis on throwing more fastballs- especially early in counts and early on in the game. The mix in the off-speed stuff later. (At least that's what i heard from Bill Schroeder.) If that's true, it probably has a lot bigger effect on the results we're seeing than anything Lucroy is doing.

 

With that said, umpires are human. Lucroy does seem to have a subtle way of framing a strike. And if late movement on a pitch "looks" like a strike on the corner, the umpire will be more likely to call it. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it has a very big impact, but even if it's worth 2 or 3 strikes a game, it's a factor.

Agreed on both accounts. I really love Lucory's ability to frame pitches. That was one of the first things I saw out of him that I love. Maybe it's just that Kottaras can't frame a pitch naturally so that makes Lucroy's ability to frame look that much better, I don't know.

[MLS1965]

I'm going to say yes... Think back just over a month ago he was catching: John Axford, Zach Braddock, Kameron Loe here in Nashville. He knows them.. they know him.

[viaarete]

I can think of three (legitimate) ways a catcher can affect a pitcher's stats (plus a bonus possible affect that I personally find appealing):

 

1. Call a good game (select the right pitch, at the right location, at the right time)

To be honest, I wouldn't recognize a catcher who calls a great game from one who calls a "just" good one. I probably wouldn't be able to recognize the difference between a great game-caller and an average one. In my mind, any competent catcher should perform at about the same level as other competent catchers. To this extent, I obviously don't see how Lucroy would be a clear upgrade here.

 

2. Control wild pitches

Say a man is let on base by BB. Say he advances on a wild pitch. Say the batter hits a single, bringing in the run. Most likely, the baserunner would not have scored without the wild pitch. If a catcher can better control wild pitches, and prevent the ball from rolling/flying far from his reach, the pitcher should put fewer runners in scoring position, and thus allow fewer runs. Here again, however, I don't see any significant uptick with Lucroy.

 

3. Catch base-stealers

Similar to above, stopping a man from advancing is an advantage for the pitchers' stats. To boot, catching a runner stealing creates an out; another boon to the pitcher. I'm not sure which is more valuable between stopping an advancing runner or notching an out, but I guarantee that achieving both is significantly more valuable than one or the other. In this respect, Lucroy has an obvious advantage over the other Brewers' catchers this year. He is a significant improvement over Zaun and Kottaras in this department, and it should have some effect on the pitchers' stats. However, although Lucroy has been better at throwing out runners, he has not done so at such a rate as to explain the better stats we've seen from the pitchers.

 

(+)4. Don't "Tell" the Pitches

I said there was a bonus that laid outside the legitimate ways a catcher can have an effect on pitchers' stats. My [totally irrational and justifying] reason for why our pitchers had such poor stats early this season was that Zaun was giving away the pitch to the batter; either location or type, and in some way that was noticeable to the batter but not the average viewer. Unlike the preceding reasons, for which I could possibly dredge up some statistical evidence to make my case, this is totally unfounded. Nonetheless, it makes me feel better about our pitchers' actual abilities, so I'm gonna stick with it.

In sum:

If 1 or 2 or 3 or 4, then Lucroy has had a positive effect on pitchers' performance.

I prefer to scratch-out 1 and 2 by caveat.

I do give tentative credence to 3.

I give zero credence to 4, but maintain a desire to uphold it.

In all, I think Lucroy may have a small, positive effect on Brewers pitchers' stats, but not nearly enough to account for their recent performance.