Team Defensive Metrics

[JohnBriggs12]

Mcgehee just cost Manny a run with that whiff.

 

Our defense has got to at least make the routine plays.

 

How they didn't call it an error is amazing.

 

I guess if you have to move your feet you can't be expected to make the play?

The play by Weeks in the next inning was worse and that was called a hit too.

 

Is it me or is Weeks out of shape? He's a putrid 6 for 11 in stolen bases since Macha became manager. He looks easily 25 pounds heavier than he did in 06 and 07 and much, much slower. He's now listed at 215 pounds. That's too heavy. I recall he used to be listed at 190.

 

[DHonks]

I don't blame McGehee for that one. He hugs the line. The reality is that if Escobar makes the throw, we're talking about McGehee's effort being good. Escobar should throw that runner out at the plate 9 times out of 10. McGehee probably only gets that ball 7 times out of ten. And an average second baseman should get that Weeks botched grounder 10 times out of ten. What baffled me is that Haudricourt said that he was moving towards the bag when the ball was put in play. Umm...the replay shows that Weeks was stationary next to 2nd, and didn't move to the bag until it was put in play.

[Oldcity]

The only plus defenders on the team are Gomez and Counsell. Terrible defense is the biggest reason the team is bad. It's painful to watch.

[burnzy24]

The only plus defenders on the team are Gomez and Counsell. Terrible defense is the biggest reason the team is bad. It's painful to watch.

Does this include Lucroy? How has he been defensively so far? (I don't get to watch many games on television)

 

[logan82]

Lucroy is good but catchers don't really field many balls so have little impact in defensive metrics.

[burnzy24]

Lucroy is good but catchers don't really field many balls so have little impact in defensive metrics.

I meant more around the lines of passed balls/ throwing runners out. I know Kottaras has had a problem with both and I was just wondering how Lucroy has looked so far.

 

[Oldcity]

Sorry. I like Lucroy from what I've seen but I wasn't really counting him because he just came up.

[igor67]

If I might make the following suggestion, target Fielder and McGehee for trades then bring in Gamel and his improved range at third and shift Hart to his original position at first. Hart's reach helps to mitigate 2 of the biggest weaknesses currently from Escobar and Gamel. Between Cain and Lawrie a little bit longer term we've got better defensive OF options, and I assume that Escobar will solidify after some time up.

[FVBrewerFan]

Now Macha is the reason why Braun and Hart are below average outfielders? I'm not a big fan of the guy but he seems to get's blamed for everything.

Well, that's twisting what I said. I think Braun and Hart both have the athletic ability to play better defense, and have at times. But they have mental lapses at times, which is a reflection of the Manager, in my opinion. Poor base running, missing the cut-off man, not being ready to make a quick first step towards a ball hit in the OF...these are all things that reflect on the Manager. Is it "his fault?" Not entirely, but managing people (including in sports) is about setting expectations, and pushing the right buttons to get the most of people. Managing is more than filling out a line-up card and deciding when to go to the bullpen.

 

 

[Baldkin]

This isn't high school. These guys are getting paid millions of dollars to do their job, and if they're bored and decide not to pay attention what exactly can the manager do?

Macha isn't going to bench Braun because he doesn't want to try to get better out in LF.

Because, despite being told 1,000 times, I'm sure, that he needs to get behind a fly ball and have his momentum coming inwards to make a solid throw to the plate... he'll camp under it and catch it flat footed, then start moving forward....as he did on Saturday night, when he hit the runner. Amazing how much better his next throw was on the single he had to come in for.

[sheethead]

This isn't high school. These guys are getting paid millions of dollars to do their job, and if they're bored and decide not to pay attention what exactly can the manager do?

I see this argument quite a bit, and while it has some merit, most times the players are paid for their athletic ability, not their mental makeup. If a manager is not creative enough to fuel the fire in the players' bellies, then I don't see what the manager is good for. Pay anyone a quarter of what Macha makes to run out the lineup card before the game and be mediocre at managing the pitching staff. If he doesn't bring anything other than that to the table, what value does HE add.

 

What do I see? A team that was making progress toward mediocre defense until Macha arrived. Now a year and a half later they are completely awful, again.

[endaround]

And I see a team that became awful after Cameron, Hardy, and Hall departed

[Fatter than Joey]

And I see a team that became awful after Cameron, Hardy, and Hall departed

 

Don't forget Branyan....

 

unless you mean defensively

[endaround]

I meant defensively. This team was ok last year defensively and horrendous this year.

[FVBrewerFan]

Exactly. Benching Braun isn't the point. A good manager will find a way to inspire, punish, challenge each player differently. Anyone over the age of 12 knows how to play the game properly, yet you see mistakes in various phases of the game at all levels of baseball. A good manager can and does minimize those mental mistakes.

 

Weeks, Fileder, and Braun were all making progress last year defensively, and they all semed to have regressed this year. I think we all understand this team doesn't have 8 gold glovers out there, but they should be better than they have been this year.

[rluzinski]

A good manager can and does minimize those mental mistakes.

 

How do you know he hasn't? Pure speculation.

[Funketown]

A good manager will find a way to inspire, punish, challenge each player differently. Anyone over the age of 12 knows how to play the game properly, yet you see mistakes in various phases of the game at all levels of baseball. A good manager can and does minimize those mental mistakes.

I agree that a good manager should inspire his players, I just question how much it can really help a player with poor defensive skills like Braun. It doesn't seem like he isn't trying; he seems to take his defense very seriously. Just as a manager cannot inspire David Eckstein to sock 20 homers, a manager cannot inspire a guy like Braun to be an average defender. He just doesn't have the skills, even if he gives a good effort.

[TooLiveBrew]

It doesn't seem like he isn't trying

 

I don't know... on certain plays this season, I've found myself questioning whether or not he really cared if he got to the ball or not.

 

 

Just as a manager cannot inspire David Eckstein to sock 20 homers, a manager cannot inspire a guy like Braun to be an average defender. He just doesn't have the skills, even if he gives a good effort.

 

Ultimately, I think this hits the nail on the head. It's not that he doesn't have the physical tools to be a good outfielder, but his instincts are so bad I just don't think he'll ever be more than a below-average defender.

[Flood Pants]

Let's quit blaming the manager. Hart and Braun are outfielders because there was no place else to put them, not because they belong there. They both bombed out at third base. They were drafted for their offense and not their gloves. Same for Fielder and Weeks. This team was drafted around good hitting with defense as an afterthought. We can't expect Macha, Randolph, Sveum, or anyone to fix that problem. But how bad of a problem is it, really? Would we rather have a great defensive team who can't score any runs? Would we have gotten to the playoffs without Braun and Fielder? No way. I'm not saying that defense isn't important, but I think all of these guys produce many more runs than they give up.

[Ennder]

This team was drafted to put fans in the seat to rebuild the fanbase as the first step of rebuilding the franchise, it is unfortunate that none of them improved all that much defensively but it is hardly Macha's fault either. If you really want to blame someone look at Melvin and the scouting guys not the manager.

[mletto157]

Agreed. The manager can't wish someone to be a good defender. I can't think of a single example of someone who was a poor defender (spanning multiple years) getting a different manager and becoming instantly better (and staying better, not just one lucky year). Nor can I think of the reverse; someone that has a track record of being a good defender and getting worse overnight because of a different manager (not because of getting old).

 

EDIT - And as Ennder pointed out, the focus of our organization when these players were drafted was getting players that would draw attention and get fans to the games. Offense does that. Fans love offense, and they especially love homeruns.