Why not move Gamel and Lawrie defensively?

[bamberger]

Both are blocked at the major league level and aren't rip-snortin' quality defenders at their current positions. Getting them ready as corner OFs or 1B would seem to be a prudent backup to making some needed trades.

[Tedaldtada]

Leave them where they are. Might as well at least find out if they can handle a premium position. Both guys are more then capable of sticking where they are. Lawrie has 12 errors, which is actually not all that bad for a 2B. He also has a range factor north of 5.0 which is outstanding (SSS). He had a 4.25 RF last year.

 

Gamel can make all the plays, he just needs to harness his arm. His arm is fantastic btw.

[Never Outhustled]

Agreed, the talk that Lawrie can't play 2B because some idiot scouts said he can't is funny. Remember, these are the same scouts that said Weeks couldn't play 2B, and that Escobar was an awestriking defender. Weeks now plays 2B better than Escobar plays SS. Lawrie has a ways to go with his descision making as a 2B, but has softer hands than Weeks. Lawrie's bat looks to be MLB ready early next season, his defense should be tollerable by then.

[YoungGeezy]

Not a fan at all. All the move does is say that they have given up 100% on trying to sign Fielder or the 100% do not want Hart... that is a great message to send to a guy you would like to try to lock up long term and the other who is is leading the NL in Homers and has been huge for us. Cross those bridges when you cross those bridges.

 

Gamel surprisingly can make almost every play at third base and actually wow you, the only thing is he needs to just fine tune mechanics on routine plays. That is where he screws up the most. He will make tough play and throw time after time but if you hit a ball right at him and give him time that is when he will launch the ball into the stands or the dugout. Lawrie is still only 20 and learning...he may not be great at second base but if you look at our current 2nd baseman you may notice they aren't to worried about defense and are willing to work on it.

 

Really what I am saying is who knows what the future holds. Why have Gamel and Lawrie play musical chairs? The Brewers may sign Prince long-term or want to keep Hart and then Lawrie and Gamel would have to move again. No need to rush a move, wait and see what happens.

[Never Outhustled]

Also, if Fielder is dealt, McGehee will be the one to move to 1B, as he is a very poor defender at 3B, with almost no range. He really needs to drop 15 pounds.

 

In truth, the guys the Brewers should be shopping for pitching help is McGehee and Weeks.

[logan82]

Unless or until Weeks signs a long term contract I would keep Lawrie where he is. If Weeks signs a 4+ year extension then I would move Lawrie because he wouldn't have a spot on the MLB club.

[YoungGeezy]

Plus I think Lawrie would have to transition to LF if anywhere. 1st baseman for him is a pure waste of athletic ability. It reminds me of Nomar playing 1st for the dodgers but at least he was old and at the end of his career not 20 and still a stellar athlete (any doubters could just look at his 9 triples) Lawrie is just not a 1st baseman. I know you didn't directly say that was an option for him but some have and it is a terrible idea. I think he would be fine in the outfield and he sure has the athletic ability to play OF but not sure if he has the arm for RF. I know he has a pretty good arm strength but not sure how it translate because never seen it outside of him playing 2nd base.

 

The other problem is what happens with Cain? Gomez is actually only about 4 months older than Cain and has not shown any reason for the Brewers to part ways with him. So has of right now he fits in as the 4th OF or RF if Hart is traded. If Gamel or Lawrie are moved, what do they do with Cain?

[logan82]

The problem with Lawrie in LF is that we have Braun there for the foreseeable future. Braun would also be wasting his athletic ability at 1B and he pretty much sucks there so I wouldn't want him in RF.

[True CryM]

Agreed, the talk that Lawrie can't play 2B because some idiot scouts said he can't is funny. Remember, these are the same scouts that said Weeks couldn't play 2B, and that Escobar was an awestriking defender. Weeks now plays 2B better than Escobar plays SS. Lawrie has a ways to go with his descision making as a 2B, but has softer hands than Weeks. Lawrie's bat looks to be MLB ready early next season, his defense should be tollerable by then.

Weeks is one of the worst fielding 2b in the majors. The scouts that said he wouldn't be able to play there have been right so far. If Escobar is allotted the same amount of slack as Rickie, then he'll eclipse what ever Weeks has done in a matter of months. Those two aren't even close defensively.

 

 

[YoungGeezy]

The problem with Lawrie in LF is that we have Braun there for the foreseeable future. Braun would also be wasting his athletic ability at 1B and he pretty much sucks there so I wouldn't want him in RF.

See after watching the All-Star Game last year I think that Braun would have the potential to move move over and play RF. His arm is not bad and probably better than Lawrie's. RF is the harder position to play out of the two and I'd feel much better having Braun there than Lawrie

[DHonks]

I'm a bit puzzled X. I know statistically that McGehee isn't good at 3rd. Yet when I watch games on tv he's our only infielder making both the routine and the difficult plays. He throws to 2nd better than just about any 3rd baseman I remember, and he makes good throws to 1st most the time. It's not his fault that Fielder turns several outs into throwing errors each year. Perhaps his range isn't off the charts...but I'm comfortable with the ball being hit his way, which is something I can't say about Weeks and Fielder

[logan82]

McGehee is fine if the ball is hit his way. He can't move to get balls though. His range is limited.

 

See after watching the All-Star Game last year I think that Braun would

have the potential to move move over and play RF. His arm is not bad

and probably better than Lawrie's. RF is the harder position to play

out of the two and I'd feel much better having Braun there than Lawrie

Maybe Braun would be a better defender than Lawrie but if that is the case the Lawrie has no business in the outfield because Braun is terrible.

[jerichoholicninja]

Perhaps the Brewers should start drafting players who can play the position they're listed at. Braun, LaPorta, Lawrie, Gamel, Hart, Weeks. All guys drafted for their bat who have either been moved or talked about being moved. Lawrie is the most frustrating because from what I've read his offense should be great at catcher and pretty good at second but average anywhere else. And this guy was our #1 pick. I know not all players are going to play the position they were drafted at or become what they are expected to but at some point Melvin and company need to start drafting players that can field their position because not everyone can play left field or first.

[DHonks]

"Perhaps the Brewers should start drafting players who can play the position they're listed at. "

 

There is something to be said for defense, as evident in the BoSox, A's, and other sabermetric-based organizations feeling it is hugely important to winning in recent years

[bork]

Perhaps the Brewers should start drafting players who can play the position they're listed at. Braun, LaPorta, Lawrie, Gamel, Hart, Weeks.

In fairness to Hart, he probably would have been a pretty good 1B, where he was drafted at. He was only moved because of Fielder.

[filthyfrog]

If the time comes to move Gamel to 1B, he can learn that on the fly at the Major League level if necessary. Every decent 3B in baseball can handle 1B just fine without needing months of practice.

 

And Weeks is injury prone and nearing the end of his contract, so I don't think we should move Lawrie off 2B unless he is truly as terrible as some scouts have reported.

[DHonks]

to piggyback with Filthyfrog, we shouldn't think of moving Lawrie unless Weeks is willing to take a reasonable long-term deal OR the organization is convinced one of the others would work at 2b (like Farris)

[Dnye23]

I don't want to see Lawrie moved, I think he can handle 2B. Rickie would have to accept an outfield job, which he doesn't want. When Lawrie is ready to come up, one of them has to be traded. I like the idea of moving Gamel to 1B. If or when Prince is gone, they shouldn't scramble to fill that hole. If this does happen, I hope they start seasoning Gamel this year and next instead of throwing him in at spring training in 2012.

[Funketown]

I'm a bit puzzled X. I know statistically that McGehee isn't good at 3rd. Yet when I watch games on tv he's our only infielder making both the routine and the difficult plays. He throws to 2nd better than just about any 3rd baseman I remember, and he makes good throws to 1st most the time. It's not his fault that Fielder turns several outs into throwing errors each year. Perhaps his range isn't off the charts...but I'm comfortable with the ball being hit his way, which is something I can't say about Weeks and Fielder

Watching McGehee, I feel like he moves reasonably well forward and backward but relatively poorly left and right. I agree that he is probably a better 3B than many metrics would indicate, and I do wonder how many more plays he would make with Pujols or Lee at 1st.

 

Back on topic, I don't think Lawrie is blocked by Weeks, as long as the plan is not to have him split between Huntsville and Nashville this year. I know I've expressed my concerns about Lawrie in the past, but he has started to put together a very nice season for a 20 year old playing in AA (this is why I'm not a GM!). His K-rate still worries me a bit (24.2%), but it's not too bad. I just don't see the point of moving him, as he seems to be a good enough athlete to man 2nd, and he most likely is still improving.

 

My worries about Gamel are also really not about his defense. Although a lot has been made of his struggles at 3rd, I didn't think he looked bad with the Brewers last year, so hopefully he can continue to develop.

[LouisEly]

"Perhaps the Brewers should start drafting players who can play the position they're listed at. "

 

There is something to be said for defense, as evident in the BoSox, A's, and other sabermetric-based organizations feeling it is hugely important to winning in recent years.

The Brewers have also been to the post-season two years more recently than the A's, and have advanced past the first round of the playoffs the exact same number of times the A's have since expanding to the Wild Card format - zero.

 

The Red Sox also have the second highest payroll in the majors with 11 players making over $7M/year and seven players making 8-figures.

 

I will grant you though, that had Weeks caught a particular throw in the 2008 playoffs they might very well have beaten the Phillies to advance to the 2nd round of the playoffs.

[HiAndTight]

Perhaps the Brewers should start drafting players who can play the position they're listed at. Braun, LaPorta, Lawrie, Gamel, Hart, Weeks. All guys drafted for their bat who have either been moved or talked about being moved. Lawrie is the most frustrating because from what I've read his offense should be great at catcher and pretty good at second but average anywhere else. And this guy was our #1 pick. I know not all players are going to play the position they were drafted at or become what they are expected to but at some point Melvin and company need to start drafting players that can field their position because not everyone can play left field or first.

Every single team drafts guys and moves them. If you can get a premium bat will find a way on the field.

I think the only player in there you can make a strong argument against us drafting where we drafted them is LaPorta, and he certainly yielded a nice return for us.

The best athletes play premium positions at the lower levels obviously and very often move as they reach Pro-Ball. This isn't something unique to the Brewers.

 

As for Lawrie, I think some of the most pessimistic outcomes for him have him as merely an "average" bat for any other position outside of 2B/C. We're talking about a 20 year old kid hitting ~.290/.350/.470 with an OPS of .816.

I think we're looking at a guy who's going to be an impact bat anywhere he plays, and a middle of the order stick.

 

Both he and Gamel aren't even in the big leagues yet, so talks of their moving are just that, and they're not talks behind had by organization at this point, rather by scouts who see a game or two at a time usually and then seem to often times simply reiterate whatever happens to be the "book" on a guy.

I don't have any issues with the Brewers drafting of position players in the last decade. We've had atrocious luck with our pitching, or...drafted poorly, I don't care to split hairs there, we haven't made any great franchise changing trades, signed any franchise changing Free Agents(well, we have, but not for the better), and yet we've enjoyed a resurgence, however short lived it may have been, we've done that on the backs of our offense.

[JohnBriggs12]

I believe there is a very high probability that Weeks is dealt this winter. I don't see any way he's signed to an extension. They'll go into next year with a stopgap type 2B, maybe even Counsell or Inglett, with Lawrie on track to come up around Memorial Day. They'll take him out for defense late in games if need be. Farris could be his defensive shadow eventually. They see Lawrie as a Jeff Kent/Dan Uggla type.

[HiAndTight]

I believe there is a very high probability that Weeks is dealt this winter. I don't see any way he's signed to an extension. They'll go into next year with a stopgap type 2B, maybe even Counsell or Inglett, with Lawrie on track to come up around Memorial Day. They'll take him out for defense late in games if need be. Farris could be his defensive shadow eventually. They see Lawrie as a Jeff Kent/Dan Uggla type.

That's a fairly bold statement. I obviously think Weeks has more of a future here....and I think the Brewers are a little higher on Weeks than you may be. I certainly don't think keep Weeks precludes Brett Lawrie from finding his way onto the field. In fact, I'm pretty excited about a 1-5 of Weeks(2B), T. Green(3B), Braun(LF), Gamel(1B), Lawrie(RF), or some variation thereof. That lineup, rounded out with Lucroy, Escobar and Cain looks incredibly promising to me, not to mention very, very cheap for the near future. This also has the makings of a very well rounded offense as well, as you go R/L/R/L/R for your top 5, and have guys who take a lot of walks throughout your lineup.

 

That said, I'm as excited about the recent tear that Lawrie is currently on as well, but I think he would benefit from a little more time in the minors than just over 2 years. He is currently red hot, but with a team that most likely won't have Prince on it next year, I'd just assume keep him in AAA for the year and make sure he's ready before we bring him up. He's still just 20 years old, so I see no need to rush him.