News helicopters collide in Phoenix/Pilot dies in Oshkosh

[gypcasino]

Have you seen the videos? Unreal.

 

Final moments live

 

Fox pilot witness

[burniebrewer]

I heard about that just after it happened this afternoon but hadn't seen the footage.

 

They're saying the guy who was leading police on the chase may likely face charges in the deaths of those on the choppers.

 

Very sad.

[brettac1]

They're saying the guy who was leading police on the chase may likely face charges in the deaths of those on the choppers.

 

That's silly. Because of a sensationalist media covering something as meaningless as a traffic chase, with helicopters no less, that guy gets slapped with the liability in this case? That's awful.

[BillScottCanRake]

That's silly. Because of a sensationalist media covering something as meaningless as a traffic chase, with helicopters no less, that guy gets slapped with the liability in this case? That's awful.

 

I agree with that.

 

I hope that the people in charge of news departments take a look at how they cover these types of events. I doubt this will change anything, but it's stupid to risk lives for something so trivial as a police change for ratings.

[sbrylski]

That's silly. Because of a sensationalist media covering something as meaningless as a traffic chase, with helicopters no less, that guy gets slapped with the liability in this case? That's awful.

 

While I find it hard to understand how two professional pilots can crash into each other like that, likely at a relatively low speed, I'm totally fine with piling as many charges as possible onto the guy leading the chase. Why would you have sympathy for that guy?

[splitterpfj]

A pilot died in Oshkosh today too, and another died trying to fly in from overseas.

 

www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/27/airshow.crash.ap/index.html

[burniebrewer]

PHOENIX -- Phoenix authorities said a man whose high-speed chase spurred the coverage that resulted in two news helicopters colliding and the deaths of all on board, may face charges in connection with the deaths.

 

The man fleeing from police was taken into custody by a SWAT team after barricading himself inside a house following the accident, police said. Police Chief Jack Harris suggested he could be charged in connection with the collision.

 

"I believe you will want to talk to investigators, but I think he will be held responsible for any of the deaths from this tragedy," Harris told reporters at the scene. He did not elaborate.

 

 

Full story

[homer]

Quote:

---

I'm totally fine with piling as many charges as possible onto the guy leading the chase. Why would you have sympathy for that guy?

---

 

So if you get pulled over for speeding and someone crashes trying to take your picture, would you be responsible for their death?

 

It has nothing to do with the guy in the police chase and everything to do with principle.

[TheCrew07]

It's not siding with the felon who's trying elude police, it's about liability gone out of control. True if he didn't get in a chase the helicopters wouldn't have been there, but sensationalism and reality based TV have much more to do with the pilots being there than the chase. If there weren't ratings involved, every local new copter wouldn't have been in the air. While not as low as a certain pitcher's father trying to sue everyone, the root cause of the crash is the media monster... the fault and the liability should start there.

 

What's next, papararrazie suing the stars for falling out of their trees?

[JoeHova]

Quote:

---

So if you get pulled over for speeding and someone crashes trying to take your picture, would you be responsible for their death?

 

It has nothing to do with the guy in the police chase and everything to do with principle.

---

 

 

I agree. I was watching this coverage live while I was at some restaurant downtown that for some reason had FoxNews on. The only thing I could think of was how this would all be blamed on the guy making the getaway and no one would mention the sheer idiocy of the media and the police in chasing people at high speeds through densely populated urban areas. I hate the whole idea of police chases, what good can come of it? Cops get to feel like they're John McClane and the media gets to hope that a car pinwheels into a gasoline tanker so they can show the footage for days on end. It's disgusting to me that there is so little care for the safety of bystanders.

 

Anyway, in my opinion the fault lies mostly with the people in the helicopters. If they hadn't crashed chasing a high speed chase, they probably would have crashed trying to get the best footage of some horrible accident on the freeway or some other ghoulish thing. Sure, it's a tragedy that the guys died. That doesn't change the fact that their deaths were imbecilic and meaningless.

 

The fact that the authorities appear ready to railroad the guy who was being chased is just ridiculous. How about charging the cops for making themselves the spectacle? It takes two to make a high-speed "chase", the chasee can't do it alone.

 

I know that there are laws that say that if you are committing a felony, any bad things that happen during the commission of that felony can be blamed on you. The law makes good sense in general, but like most things, it should be used in moderation. If that guy is charged with murder or manslaughter, it's a travesty of justice. Not that the guy is blameless, but to charge him would imply that he is the only one to blame, which is patently false.

[And That]

This is all just sick. I'd like to describe this in more apt words, but they are not appropriate for this forum.

 

Who really cares about a video that would have been destined to end up on "Extreme Police Chases"? I've never understood the reasoning behind news copters following this sort of stuff. I am disgusted that this had to happen before we realize what advertisers pay us to watch. Just horrible.

 

Let me pay sympathies to the families of all that died in this needless, vouyerstic debacle. Just... absolutely needless.

 

Edit: The vapid inhumanity of the American public is shocking. I threw up after watching all of that... most people are going to watch it and just be like, hey, that sucks. I can't make any more comments without bringing this political, but this is one of the many reasons that makes me want to move out of the western hemisphere.

[DuWayne Steurer]

It's easy to blame the media, but they're only giving us what people want. They won't stop showing us garbage like this til we stop watching.

 

And it's surely not the fault of the guy running. (Unless of course he called the news station to let them know he was going to go on a high speed chase with the cops).

[PeaveyFury]

As a reminder, please keep political agendas out of this discussion, thanks.

[igor67]

My gut reaction is that 1) I probably should have precious little problem watching the weasel who ran taking the fall for the entire thing. 2) It doesn't make a whole lot of logical sense that he should.

 

Further thinking makes the issue a lot cloudier in terms of cause and effect. If the driver had crashed into a news van clearly he should be culpable right? On the other hand let's say a person falls out a window a long the path of said chase it too seems fishy that that could be connected. Of course someone might argue that he was looking out the window at the noise and it caused him to fall.

The law itself makes sense because it hammers home the central point that if you are doing something stupid people can easily get hurt and throwing all the blame on that person ups the stakes to hopefully remind people of this.

[Fatter than Joey]

I hope that the people in charge of news departments take a look at how they cover these types of events. I doubt this will change anything, but it's stupid to risk lives for something so trivial as a police change for ratings.

 

Agreed -- Thank goodness none of those people in the park were hurt.

 

I'm totally fine with piling as many charges as possible onto the guy leading the chase. Why would you have sympathy for that guy?

 

I don't have sympathy for him -- I don't think he was responsible for the copter crash. There were 3 news copters (at least) jockeying for position.

 

The law itself makes sense because it hammers home the central point that if you are doing something stupid people can easily get hurt and throwing all the blame on that person ups the stakes to hopefully remind people of this.

 

This should be said to the news channels as well -- they are super fortunate some kids didn't get killed in that park.

 

JoHova makes a lot of good points.

[RyDogg66]

Well, the first thing I thought when I heard this was if the guy leading the chase could be charged with, what in Wisconsin is called "Felony Murder"

 

That is, anytime someone dies as a result of you committing a Felony, you can be charged with murder. The typical example is two guys rob a convenience store. the clerk blasts on of them away, the other escapes. The guy who escaped is charged with his friend's death (assuming the force the clerk used was reasonable).

 

This also happens in car chases on the ground, guy speeding off from a robbery, cops chasing him, someone on the road is hit. THat is probably Felony Murder too.

 

this now is just applied to the air. A police HC, three or 4 news HCs in the air, following the incident, they collide. 4 dead and it was caused (indirectly as it may be) by the chase that this bozo was leading them on.

 

What if this were two police HCs? Seems like we're splitting hairs. Anytime you lead the police on a high speed chase you are putting others at risk and sometimes there are consequences for those actions.

 

It's an interesting case.

[1992casey]

RyDogg, the police helicopter thing crossed my mind when I first read this thread a couple hours ago. If it's police helicopters legitimately involved, I can see attempting to press charges. However, I'd guess that anyone piloting police helicopters probably would have had the sense to avoid flying so dangerously in the first place.

 

The news copters should have been further back. The guy who caused the need for a chase didn't cause the pilots to fly the way they were flying.

[RyDogg66]

How do we know if they were flying dangerously? This could have just been a tragic accident - one that could have been prevented had the guy on the ground not started a high speed police chase.

 

Like I said, it is a very interesting fact pattern.

[RockCoCougars]

Quote:

---

What if this were two police HCs? Seems like we're splitting hairs. Anytime you lead the police on a high speed chase you are putting others at risk and sometimes there are consequences for those actions.

---

You don't happen to be a lawyer, do you?

[RyDogg66]

yeah, actually, what gave it away? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[brettac1]

Well, I suppose the police are the ones that called and alerted the media. Where's their liability?

[homer]

Quote:

---

alerted the media

---

 

I don't think police alert media when there is a car chase. The media have police scanners and follow whichever call sounds interesting.

[Athens Badger]

Ry, I can't imagine those rules would apply in a situation where the "innocent bystander" willingly make themselves involved (for lack of a better word) in the crime.

 

They weren't just flying about and crashed due to the events on the ground. They were chasing the events ont he ground, putting themselves at risk.

[RyDogg66]

I agree, that is a good point. I mean, this is about as good a Law School Crim Law question you could find for a final exam.

[ccbrew]

This also happens in car chases on the ground, guy speeding off from a robbery, cops chasing him, someone on the road is hit. THat is probably Felony Murder too.

 

While what you are saying is true, I don't think this is a fair comparison in this case. In that situation, a bystander is put in the line of danger by the direct actions of the criminal. Whether the civilian is hit with the criminal's car or by a police car accidentally, the responsibility will lie on the criminal for putting others in harm's way. If a civilian lost control of his car to avoid the chase and ended up hitting a tree, I think responsibility would fall on the criminal as well.

 

The more appropriate comparison in this case would be if two competing news crews were covering the chase in vehicles instead of helicopters. Say they lose control of their cars while jockeying for position to get footage and cause a two-car accident only involving themselves a block behind the chase..how could this be pinned on the criminal?

 

With all that said..why anybody would think to go on a high-speed chase is beyond me. Although I don't believe he should be charged with the helicopter crash, I hope he gets punished to the fullest extent of the law for whatever crime he originally committed and for all the laws broken during the chase.