The Jim Joyce/Perfect Game Thread

[TooLiveBrew]

Thanks for that video link, RK'sFG. Here's another one, not anywhere near as serious http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixKidAhVtW4

[topper09er]

1) This is now one of the most famous games in baseball history. It is probably now the most famous perfect game in history above Don Larsen just because that happened in 1956 and most people are too young to care about it. Anytime from now on whenever anyone mentions perfect games everyone will add "Dont forget about that Andres Galarraga guy who got screwed by a bad call" Everyone seems to have an opinion about this game yet I would bet that most people (not on this site) could not name Dallas Braden as the first perfecto this season.

What people dont understand is that this did not take anything away from Galarraga, everyone on the planet has seen the replay and knows he threw the perfect game and now this is one of the most famous games of all time. If the call was correct then everyone forgets this guys name in a month.

2) I still dont want replay, this is a game, it isnt national defense. We dont have to implement technology just because it is available. When these things happen they are special memorable moments like this and have a special place in baseball history and make the game interesting. Also, just like in football which burtaly wastes sometimes 30 minutes per game on reviews, the calls rarely affect the outcome of the game, just like in this game. There are just too many problems with replay in baseball and at the end of the day it would all be pointless because the calls dont cause the wrong team to win, maybe 1-2 times per season (not per team, per season).

[Principessa21]

Thanks for that video link, RK'sFG. Here's another one, not anywhere near as serious http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixKidAhVtW4

Fantastic.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

"Dont forget about that Andres Galarraga guy who got screwed by a bad call"

 

Looks like someone has already forgotten...it's Armando.

 

Luckily we have replay on the site http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[topper09er]

Thanks for that video link, RK'sFG. Here's another one, not anywhere near as serious http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixKidAhVtW4

"The only call more stupid would be to attack Russia and England at the same time"

 

Pretty good

[topper09er]

"Dont forget about that Andres Galarraga guy who got screwed by a bad call"

 

Looks like someone has already forgotten...it's Armando.

 

Luckily we have replay on the site http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

I know i did that on purpose.

 

[pitchleague]

That's alright. Brian Anderson did it during the telecast last night. I did a double take and said, "You mean 'Armando', Brian! If 'Andres' were doing it, that would be a sight I've GOT to see."

[brains and braun]

Leave it to baseball to not fix a call that is perfectly fixable and EVERYONE knows is incorrect. What a joke! For all the "purists" out there, I want to know how it's right to keep a guy out of the record books that obviously belongs. Stats and records are such a big part of baseball, but we are going to deny this kid his proper place in history because Bud is clinging to the old ways. Baseball needs to get with the times.

[hawing]

No doubt in tribute to Brian Anderson saying "Andres" the first few times he mentioned the perfect game during Wednesday's broadcast.

[pretendastronaut]

Baseball commissioner Bud Selig said he would look at the game's umpiring system and the expanded use of instant replay, but would not reverse the blown call that cost Armando Galarraga of the Detroit Tigers a perfect game on Wednesday night.

 

"While the human element has always been an integral part of baseball, it is vital that mistakes on the field be addressed," Selig said in a statement. "Given last night's call and other recent events, I will examine our umpiring system, the expanded use of instant replay and all other related features."

 

Selig said he would consult with baseball's labor unions and the game's special committee for on-field matters before announcing any decisions.

 

And without trying to be political, this is just absurdly hilarious;

 

Michigan lawmakers got into the act on Thursday, lobbying Selig to reverse the call and recognizing Galarraga as having thrown a perfect game. Gov. Jennifer Granholm issued a proclamation declaring that Galarraga had indeed pitched a perfect game, while U.S. Rep. John D. Dingell said he'd introduce a congressional resolution asking Major League Baseball to overturn the blown call.

 

Link

[berniebrewer4life]

From a state as screwed up as Michigan, i would expect nothing less.

[topper09er]

What a joke! For all the "purists" out there, I want to know how it's right to keep a guy out of the record books that obviously belongs.

Please do not act like he is not in the records books, alought that is technically true, this is now one of the most famous game in MLB history and will be talked about by many, many more people for much, much longer than if the call was correct. Anytime anyone ever mentions perfect games this will be the first one brought even by less intense fans.

 

obviously belongs

 

First of all he only had 3 strikeouts, not that dominant. He got 14 groundballs, the MLB average is only turning about 70-75% of ground balls into outs, so a little luck there. He also allowed 4 linedrives hit right at people, line drives on average are only converted into outs about 20-25% of the time...a little luck there. If Jim Edmonds is playing CF, Mark Gridezxlkjchasdf (sp?) hits a double to lead off the 9th. I wasnt watching the game, but there was also a play in the fifth according to game day that went 1-5-3, so I assume it bounced off the pitcher and luckily went right to the 3rd baseman?

 

He had some good luck during the game and then bad luck from the ump, it evens out, o well, its just game, the Tigers still won and now this guy will be remembered exponentially more than Dallas Braden, or Len Barker, or Mike Witt. How many people on this board even know that Addie Joss, a Wisconsin native and UW-Madison alum, threw a perfect game in 1908?

 

 

[brains and braun]

topper09er wrote:

Please do not act like he is not in the records books, alought that is technically true

His perfect game will not be recorded. What is to debate there?

First of all he only had 3 strikeouts, not that dominant. He got 14 groundballs, the MLB average is only turning about 70-75% of ground balls into outs, so a little luck there. He also allowed 4 linedrives hit right at people, line drives on average are only converted into outs about 20-25% of the time...a little luck there. If Jim Edmonds is playing CF, Mark Gridezxlkjchasdf (sp?) hits a double to lead off the 9th. I wasnt watching the game, but there was also a play in the fifth according to game day that went 1-5-3, so I assume it bounced off the pitcher and luckily went right to the 3rd baseman?

 

How many perfect games have there been where luck isn't a factor? Galarraga is no less deserving than anyone else who has recorded a perfect game. Sure everyone is talking about this now, but eventually it will be forgotten. As someone too young to remember the Milt Pappas or '86 Series examples, I am completely unaware of the situations unless someone tells me. On the other hand, I can go to the record books and see that Don Larsen or David Cone threw perfect games. All Selig has to do is say, "We blew it, but we are going to make it right," and use this as impetus to institute some form of replay. But he wont, because for as many good things he's brought (interleague, wild card) Bud has just as many flubs. (Milwaukee All-Star Game, Steroids, etc)

[AJAY]

I don't think MLB should overturn the blown call by the umpire. I think it sets a terrible precedent.

 

Should the Cardinals ask MLB to overturn the 1985 blown call in the 9th inning of Game 6 in the World Series? That bad call cost St. Louis a championship.

 

In last year's tie-breaking game between Minnesota and Detroit, the umpire missed a call in which a pitch hit the batter's jersey with the bases loaded in extra innings. You could argue that the missed call cost Detroit the division title and eliminated their playoff hopes.

 

If more significant blown calls were not overturned, I don't see how this one can be. Especially considering it didn't affect the outcome of the game in terms of who won and lost. But I do feel terrible for both the pitcher and the umpire. This will hurt them both forever.

[derflotr]

What's the point of overturning it and calling it a perfect game now? So Galarraga gets a phone call and finds out he threw a perfect game?

This type of thing is about the moment. Calling it a "perfect game" now is just anticlimactic. No matter what Bud Selig does this will be remembered as the perfect game the umpire ruined. It helps that Jim Joyce has taken complete responsibility for it - the anti-McClellan.

[cwolf2012]

"He got 14 groundballs, the MLB average is only turning about 70-75% of ground balls into outs, so a little luck there."

 

That's pretty darn good to get 14/24 balls in play to be on the ground. If you try and tell me that Roy Halladay didn't get lucky to get his perfect game, then you and I will never agree on anything ever.

[brains and braun]

I don't think MLB should overturn the blown call by the umpire. I think it sets a terrible precedent.

Yeah...MLB might actually set the precedent of getting calls right. This isn't about 20 years ago or even last year. This is about a completely fixable situation that just happened that needs to bring about change in baseball. I think that the "human error is part of the game" talk is a joke. Why do players wear batting helmets? People resisted that too, but it was still a good idea. Just because something has always been done a certain way doesn't mean that's the best way to do it.

[topper09er]

As someone too young to remember the Milt Pappas or '86 Series examples, I am completely unaware of the situations unless someone tells me.

 

But as a baseball fan you watch games and learn about these things that only true fans know about, anyone can look up some names in the record books. Earlier this year Bruce Froemming was in the booth during the brewer game and talked about that Pappas game he was umping, Im sure that was news to many brewer fans watching the game that he came that close to a perfecto.

 

On the other hand, I can go to the record books and see that Don Larsen or David Cone threw perfect games.

 

If you think about it, what is the point of the record books? To honor and remember great accomplishments. Which is exactly what has happened with this game. This is now the most well known "perfect" game in history, and one day you may have to remind some young fan about it just like you would have to hear from someone else about the '85 WS call. No one, however, will really care to remember Charlie Robertson's perfect game in 1922 except to just see his name there and then instantly forget it.

 

There are been perfect games lost because of bad defense, like Jonathan Sanchez last season. Should MLB give him credit for it? I dont see how it is any different than this. The pitcher was robbed of a perfect game on a simple groundout that his teammate booted, just like an umpire robbed this one. What if some player has a long hitting streak and in their last at bat they hit an absolute rocket blast off a base and it is recorded as an out, should the commisioner just say we want to get this right and credit him with a hit?

 

 

I personally think it is cool that now probably most of us can say we were watching the brewers game and watched this perfect game missed call right when it happened and we had a first hand account of one the most famous games in MLB history. There have been 20 official perfect games, a handful of other times when a pitcher has recorded 27 straight outs and not credited with a perfect game, and only 1 where an umps call "cost" a guy a perfect game.

 

[bacon06]

I don't think MLB should overturn the blown call by the umpire. I think it sets a terrible precedent.

Agreed, doing so would be potentially hazardous. What would be the strength of an umpire's decision if later the league could just change it?

[Godspeed]

How many people on this board even know that Addie Joss, a Wisconsin native and UW-Madison alum, threw a perfect game in 1908?

 

More than would know if he pitched a one-hitter instead...

[whizkid]

The situation in this game eliminates 99.9% of the other calls people fear someone will want overturned, past or future. Last out of the game and subsequent action had nothing to do with the outcome. Not much of a precedent.

[AJAY]

Yeah...MLB might actually set the precedent of getting calls right. This isn't about 20 years ago or even last year. This is about a completely fixable situation that just happened that needs to bring about change in baseball. I think that the "human error is part of the game" talk is a joke. Why do players wear batting helmets? People resisted that too, but it was still a good idea. Just because something has always been done a certain way doesn't mean that's the best way to do it.

 

Just to clarify my position in case there was any misunderstanding . . . I also hate the "human error" nonsense that some people seem fascinated with. I also strongly support expanding instant replay. I expressed my views on instant replay in the other thread, and I didn't want to go off-topic by bringing that up here too. So I apologize if I came across as being anti-change when clearly I am not.

 

But I do not agree with the commissioner overturning this particular call considering that more important calls were never overturned. I think MLB will open up a big can of worms if they try to overturn this one. If Seligs sets a new precedent, every team will start to complain to the commissioner whenever they are victimized by blown calls. If future blown calls are then not overturned by the commissioner's office, teams will complain that Detroit got special treatment but their team didn't. In fact, teams might get even more angry if the commissioner doesn't overturn blown calls that might have cost a team a victory (which in my opinion is even a bigger issue in regards to the integrity of the division races compared to a personal milestone in which the blown call did not affect who won and lost).

 

Most blown calls also aren't on the last play of the game either, so how would a commissioner go back and try to determine what course of events would have occurred throughout the rest of the game had the call been made correctly. It's just too messy and impossible to do after the game is over. This is why I think Selig made the right call and left things open for future changes. What they need to do is implement changes for the future so that such mistakes won't happen again. I fully support that.

[RockCoCougars]

First of all, Selig was right in not overruling the call. Second of all, no instant replay in baseball. Games are long enough now, I don't feel like having every bang bang play result in a 5 minute delay as 80% of turnovers, and sideline catches in football result in now. People, especially todays HDTV, Tivo, X-Box generation, need to remember that there has always been the human element in the officiating in sports. Players and teams have been getting screwed for decades, hopefully things even out in the long run. Today's instant media just magnifies everything. If you strive for perfection (pun intended) in officiating, where do you stop? What if the ump had called a 3-2 pitch on the black as ball 4 instead of blowing the call at first? Do you start reviewing every ball and strike? Finally, as many have said, this will insure that Galarraga's name is in the history books forever. Had he simply thrown a perfect game, he would have just been a name on a list in sports almanacs.

[WestSideWillie]

It is amazing that Donald, outside of running his butt off to first, as if it was game 7 of the World Series, was technically out for running inside fair territory and not in the runners box towards first. Home plate umpire could have called him out for running outside of the baseline and running in fair territory. And the point of this is: That's baseball.

[topper09er]

It is amazing that Donald, outside of running his butt off to first, as if it was game 7 of the World Series, was technically out for running inside fair territory and not in the runners box towards first. Home plate umpire could have called him out for running outside of the baseline and running in fair territory. And the point of this is: That's baseball.

He was not out for that, you are only out for not running in the box if you hit by a throw from behind you.