The Jim Joyce/Perfect Game Thread

[RayKingsForemanGrill]

Keith Olbermann doing some good blogging on the subject - apparently there is precedent in the commissioners office declaring/erasing perfect games: http://keitholbermann.mlb...missioners_office_m.html

[Tbadder]

This is a case where I feel Selig could step in and make the change. The next player went out and so the adjustment would be minimum. More importantly, the class that everyone showed after this unfortunate experience was really admirable. In a cynical age, some old fashion sportsmanship made me proud to be a baseball fan. This was gutwrenching for everyone. Hats off to all the parties.

[JohnBriggs12]

Where's Bruce Froemming now?

 

Can we finally end this nonsense that umpires at the major league level are highly skilled and trained? It doesn't take special skill to be an umpire. Many people with some training could do that job. All it takes is the ability to handle being away from home, and the ability to handle public criticism. I don't feel bad for Joyce. His fellow umpires will rally around him. They always do.

 

As for Gallaraga, it might end up being a plus. Everyone remembers what Harvey Haddix did. But he didn't go down in the record books as having pitched a perfect game either.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I feel terrible for Galarraga and Joyce. But major kudos to both--Galarraga for not blowing up and just smiling it off; Joyce for owning up and admitting.

 

And major kudos to Galarraga after the game saying that everyone makes mistakes and basically shrugging it off. I wish I could use this as an example of sportsmanship, etc. in my classroom, but elementary students, for the most part, would be "who cares?" and/or not get the point.

Totally agree pitchleague, but give your kids a chance...they might surprise you! This really is a great "teachable moment".

 

Galarraga said after the game even if it wasn't in the record books, he would be proud to show his son a DVD of the game when he's older. Well Armando, I would like to show my kids a DVD of your post-game interview where you handled the adversity with class and grace. You just turned me into a Tigers fan this year. Hats off to Joyce as well for standing up to his bad call. I'm certainly no fan of umpires, but he's human and he made a mistake. In a year where some of Joyce's brethren have embarrassed themselves with their adversarial approach to players and shown egos that seem to be larger than the game, he took ownership and responsibility. We could all learn a lot from these guys.

[lcbj68c]

Can we finally end this nonsense that umpires at the major league level are highly skilled and trained? It doesn't take special skill to be an umpire. Many people with some training could do that job. All it takes is the ability to handle being away from home, and the ability to handle public criticism. I don't feel bad for Joyce. His fellow umpires will rally around him. They always do.

 

Wow, as an umpire who's currently doing college level ball, this couldn't be further from the truth.

[DSFastball55]

but as soon as Leyland came out, he could have asked for help from the other umps and they could have talked some sanity into the situation.

As I understand it, since this was a judgement call (just like a ball/strike call) it cannot be appealed to another ump unless Joyce does not have a good view of the play and declines to make a call. He could have asked another ump if they thought the ball was not secured, but can't appeal whether the runner beat out the throw or not. And he did say later that he just thought the runner beat the throw, there was no question about possession of the ball.

[lcbj68c]

As I understand it, since this was a judgement call (just like a ball/strike call) it cannot be appealed to another ump unless Joyce does not have a good view of the play and declines to make a call. He could have asked another ump if they thought the ball was not secured, but can't appeal whether the runner beat out the throw or not.

 

You are absolutely correct. There's no need for a huddle. There wasn't a question as to whether he was blocked from seeing a pulled foot or something along those lines. He was in great position, his eyes just didn't relay the correct message to the brain. There's nothing that a huddle is going to overturn here, as there shouldn't be.

[pretendastronaut]

Major League Baseball was still deciding Thursday morning whether to review the umpire's blown call that cost Detroit Tigers pitcher Armando Galarraga a perfect game.

 

Commissioner Bud Selig has the power to reverse umpire Jim Joyce's missed call that came with two outs in the ninth inning Wednesday night in Detroit. Joyce ruled Cleveland's Jason Donald safe, then admitted he got it wrong.

 

Selig would likely consult with his top advisers before making such a ruling. St. Louis Cardinals manager Tony La Russa says the call should be overturned.

 

Could you make more of a non-statement? Still deciding whether or not to review? What's to review? I suppose this is a pretty ugly decision for Selig.

[Funketown]

Can we finally end this nonsense that umpires at the major league level are highly skilled and trained? It doesn't take special skill to be an umpire. Many people with some training could do that job. All it takes is the ability to handle being away from home, and the ability to handle public criticism. I don't feel bad for Joyce. His fellow umpires will rally around him. They always do.

 

Wow, as an umpire who's currently doing college level ball, this couldn't be further from the truth.

Agreed. Umpires make a lot of bad calls, but it is not that easy to be a good umpire. If it were, you'd see better umpiring at the world's highest level of baseball. I don't know how much training it takes (I'd assume just an absurd amount of time in the minors and college), but having the ability to tell whether a ball was in or out of an imaginary box 95% of the time, or accurately determining whether a runner was safe or out on a bang-bang play 90% of the time, is not something I, or many others, could do, even with immense training.

[Principessa21]

Watching this last night, it might be the only time when baseball made me sick to my stomach.

 

I want him to have the perfect game, but I really want him to be the catalyst to bring replay into the game. And if the play is reversed, it will set an interesting precedent. For example, what do you do about the Twins game last night where a blown call directly impacted the game? I guess you can make the exception since the outcome doesn't change.

[whizkid]

If Tony LaRussa says it should be reversed, then so it should be.

 

Seriously, the only reasons in my mind it can be reversed is because it would have and should have been the last out and it didn't affect who won. Given those limitations I don't think it starts a slippery slope.

[chuckiehacks]

Major League Baseball was still deciding Thursday morning whether to review the umpire's blown call that cost Detroit Tigers pitcher Armando Galarraga a perfect game.

 

Commissioner Bud Selig has the power to reverse umpire Jim Joyce's missed call that came with two outs in the ninth inning Wednesday night in Detroit. Joyce ruled Cleveland's Jason Donald safe, then admitted he got it wrong.

 

Selig would likely consult with his top advisers before making such a ruling. St. Louis Cardinals manager Tony La Russa says the call should be overturned.

 

The Great and Powerful Oz has spoken.

[TooLiveBrew]

A large part of the skill of being a good umpire is knowing the rulebook inside & out, and how/when to apply it. The call that Joyce blew is a call that most of us on this forum could have gotten right, but to paint things with such a broad brush & conclude that the whole job is therefore easy is just misguided at best.

[lcbj68c]

Agreed. Umpires make a lot of bad calls, but it is not that easy to be a good umpire. If it were, you'd see better umpiring at the world's highest level of baseball. I don't know how much training it takes (I'd assume just an absurd amount of time in the minors and college), but having the ability to tell whether a ball was in or out of an imaginary box 95% of the time, or accurately determining whether a runner was safe or out on a bang-bang play 90% of the time, is not something I, or many others, could do, even with immense training.

 

I don't mean to pile on. But, I know a lot of guys who go pour through the rules regularly, go to a couple of camps a year, have been doing some form of umpiring for tens of years and still can't manage to work a slowpitch softball game fluidly. I go to little league games in the area and watch a dad who has to fill-in on the bases for one reason or another. Dad comes in, "oh, I know baseball, this shouldn't be hard". And, by the end of the night, his tune is "I never want to do that again."

 

To answer your question funkeltown, I am actually starting the process in January. After 15 years of umpiring, I am going to try this season. I constantly get good reviews at the college level, so I am giving it a try. (Just FYI though, some guys have zero experience before attending the PBUC and if they love the game, they do very well) You have to attend a PBUC for 5 weeks (there are only two of them, pick one). Approx 60 guys attend each of these for a total of around 120 "applicants". After the 5 weeks, you are evaluated and recommended to either be hired or not. Approx 35-40 get recommend, depending upon openings. So 33% roughly. You continue to be evaluated during spring games (split squad b's usually). From there, you are almost certainly assigned to A. Guys typically spend 1 year at A, 2 years at AA, and then AAA until an MLB position becomes available. Non-MLB umpires always have to supplement their income in the offseason.

[whizkid]

I go to little league games in the area and watch a dad who has to fill-in on the bases for one reason or another. Dad comes in, "oh, I know baseball, this shouldn't be hard". And, by the end of the night, his tune is "I never want to do that again."

 

Raises hand. Did it 3 times and it actually wasn't bad, didn't miss any calls. Did have one where I called the runner out at first on a groundball until I saw the ball trickle out of the 1B glove and immediately signaled safe. Couldn't see it right away from behind and the 1B coach who could gave me quite the glare. I knew enough to listen for the catch and watch the bag. Cabrerra's throw wasn't particularly hard and I wonder if Joyce couldn't hear the ball hit the glove. He needed to be looking at the bag and not for any bobble which didn't happen anyway.

 

JB is quite offbase with that opinion.

[jeffy]

Keith Olbermann doing some good blogging on the subject - apparently there is precedent in the commissioners office declaring/erasing perfect games: http://keitholbermann.mlb...missioners_office_m.html

"48 more no-hit games were also erased by the re-definition of the rules."

Wow, that's a lot of no hitters that got changed, what were the "rules" before this commission?

Oh, this helps: http://skallas.wordpress.com/2008/07/01/fix-the-no-hitter-rule-now/

[lcbj68c]

Raises hand. Did it 3 times and it actually wasn't bad, didn't miss any calls. Did have one where I called the runner out at first on a groundball until I saw the ball trickle out of the 1B glove and immediately signaled safe. Couldn't see it right away from behind and the 1B coach who could gave me quite the glare.

 

That's awesome. I applaud volunteers and I didn't mean to insinuate that all volunteers have a negative experience. There is just so much to be learned. From positioning to rules. And so much that can't be taught, from hustle to common sense. Saying many could do it with some training would be quite offbase, as you stated.

[pitchleague]

I think we're all missing something in the "big picture" of all this:

 

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n116/pitchleague/2536.jpg

 

Look at this mustache! How you can not like a guy that goes around on a baseball field with this! And he owns up to his mistakes! BRAVO!!!!!

 

(to be honest, I think this photo is old, as his 'stache last night was more rocking than this.)

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Galarraga shouldn't want this overturned. As it stands right now, he threw the best perfect game ever. 28 up, 28 down.

[Diskono]

For the sake of hilarity, I hope this call gets reversed, and then it ends up costing Jason Donald the batting title.

 

Oh, and Galarraga should have hustled more to cover first.

[NievesNoNO]

I give Joyce and Tigers credit for how they have handled the situation. I actually feel bad for Joyce. Did he miss a call? Yes. However, he doesn't have the luxury of 8 different replay angles with slow motion, forward, reverse, etc when he's on the field. He gets one angle and one split second to decide in real time. So those who think that was an easy call, I have to disagree.

 

The fans need to leave his family alone. The only people that should care are Joyce and Gallaraga. Joyce has admitted he was wrong and Gallaraga has brushed it off and has moved on. Everyone else should do the same.

[RayKingsForemanGrill]

Pretty fantastic video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKAz0fI27Fk

[packfan79]

Classy move by both sides, I wonder what Joyce's feelings are on the call potentially being overturned.

[Funketown]

To answer your question funkeltown, I am actually starting the process in January. After 15 years of umpiring, I am going to try this season. I constantly get good reviews at the college level, so I am giving it a try. (Just FYI though, some guys have zero experience before attending the PBUC and if they love the game, they do very well) You have to attend a PBUC for 5 weeks (there are only two of them, pick one). Approx 60 guys attend each of these for a total of around 120 "applicants". After the 5 weeks, you are evaluated and recommended to either be hired or not. Approx 35-40 get recommend, depending upon openings. So 33% roughly. You continue to be evaluated during spring games (split squad b's usually). From there, you are almost certainly assigned to A. Guys typically spend 1 year at A, 2 years at AA, and then AAA until an MLB position becomes available. Non-MLB umpires always have to supplement their income in the offseason.

Thanks. That sounds a bit like hockey, basically where the refs/umps go through the minors/college/etc. before being called up to the big leagues. Sounds like a long road, so good luck.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

lcbj68c paints a great picture of how qualified these umps are and how difficult the job is. Even with all that training, they still get it wrong far too often. It's just a darn tough job where you only get a split second to make the right call. If we ignore the whole ego issue of some of them, let's just admit even the good ones are human and humans make mistakes. That's why if there is a better solution to cut down on errors by umpires it should be used. It is my belief that MLB needs to replace the home plate umpire with an electronic strike zone and have an ump in the booth with full replay capability. If the technology is there to get it right, let's save the Joyces of the world (not to mention the guy in Seattle that blew the call last night too) from their own human frailty and get the call right. Players making mistakes is part of the game, blown calls don't have to be. With that I will get off my umpire soapbox...