The Jim Joyce/Perfect Game Thread

[Gobias Industries]

But then the perfect game would be gone.

[RockCoCougars]

The guy just choked. Everyone in the park including the umpires knew what was at stake. Don't know how you can overturn a call essentially giving a team four outs in an inning, but the funny thing is that this game will probably be much more remembered than the Halliday perfect game 50 years from now. Now we will have to hear every talking head clamor for instant replay in baseball for the next 3 weeks.

[GB12]

Alright, it was a perfect game, he had to know it was a perfect game, shouldn't any call that's close go in favor of the pitcher if you're unsure? Especially on the last freaking out.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Baseball can do whatever it wants. If they claim they can't overturn it, that's a cop-out. They'd be saying that because they don't want overturning calls post-game to become a slippery slope. This needs to be fixed. Frankly, it should have been fixed already. This has to be repaired tomorrow.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Alright, it was a perfect game, he had to know it was a perfect game, shouldn't any call that's close go in favor of the pitcher if you're unsure? Especially on the last freaking out.

He obviously wasn't unsure though. And I don't believe in using that to sway your opinion. If you think he's safe, call it that way. And I don't believe for a second they sit there thinking "This is a tie, I'm giving him the perfect game." It happens too fast.

[trwi7]

But then the perfect game would be gone.

But at least the no hitter would still be intact.

[Funketown]

It was a bad call, but none of the blame would fall on Joyce if MLB had done the right thing and implemented instant replay for calls like this. It would have taken 15 seconds to overturn and give the guy his perfect game. I don't see who the winners are in this whole situation. Jim Joyce, who may well be a solid umpire (I'll admit I have no idea how good he is) now looks like a clown. Gallaraga loses a piece of history.

 

Hopefully Mr. Selig watched the Stanley Cup Finals game tonight.

[RockCoCougars]

Since this is a thread about umpire ego and now perfect games, you may all want to Google "Bruce Froemming" "Milt Pappas". If you are unaware, one of "our own" may have intentionally cost a pitcher a perfect game many moons ago. I have heard firsthand from several people how Froemming is an egotistical jerk, so that is nothing new in baseball.

[Southwest Brewer]

This call will get played over and over for years - the Stanley Cup replay will be forgotten by Friday. Sometimes the bad calls make the history richer.....but I'm still not happy about it. Maybe the imperfections are part of what keeps the game worth watching?

[GB12]

Well that is true. Whether it gets overturned or not, this will be the most talked about and most remembered perfect game of the season.

[Schlitz001]

My first reaction was complete shock, but you have to think that with all this umpire controversy and all of these blown calls that MLB has to be seriously considering using more instant replay. I hope for baseballs sake that they do. So disappointing.

[nullbyte]

I don't believe this really belongs in this thread. It is a blown call not a case of an umpire with an overinflated ego. Joyce wasn't aggressive and didn't escalate the situation. He made what is obviously a mistake. It would be great to have replay for situations like this but it didn't cost the Tigers the game.

Agreed; I think this is a separate topic. Definitely fits in with umpire incompetence, but not ego.

[TooLiveBrew]

Baseball can do whatever it wants.

 

I really agree with this sentiment. Is there really anything that 100% prevents the Commissioner from taking on a special review of this game & call? The Indians didn't score a run or anything after the blown call, the umpire admitted he got it wrong (& I'm assuming feels just horrible).

 

The worst part of the whole thing, imo, is Joyce definitely started to pull his right elbow & arm back to punch out the "out" signal... then changed his mind at the last minute to "safe". Brutal. It was so bad, my dad was telling me he was trying to figure out if it made sense in any way for MLB to have wanted this to *not* be a perfect game, and put on the fix. I don't remember seeing such an easy call blown, regardless of the magnitude.

[crewcrazy]

I split the Jim Joyce discussion from the original umpiring thread, since this is a big enough topic that it warrants its own thread. Use this thread to talk about the incident and whether it calls for instant replay, and use the original "Umpires egos" thread for other umpiring matters that seem to fit there.

[Schlitz001]

Suddenly my post was in the wrong thread, anyway...

 

They can't overturn it unless it comes with a complete change of rules that allows for a teams in the future to have the right to request a review. Baseball can't make a one time exception to the rules, because Selig would be admitting that this call is more important than other blown calls and in reality there are much more important blown calls that have to do with records and pennant chases. Do those get overturned now too? The best solution is to implement structured replay system for the future.

[pitchleague]

I feel terrible for Galarraga and Joyce. But major kudos to both--Galarraga for not blowing up and just smiling it off; Joyce for owning up and admitting.

 

And major kudos to Galarraga after the game saying that everyone makes mistakes and basically shrugging it off. I wish I could use this as an example of sportsmanship, etc. in my classroom, but elementary students, for the most part, would be "who cares?" and/or not get the point.

[Richie]

Griffey's retirement and the perfect game controversy--baseball sure took center stage Wednesday night.

 

We should be hearing from Brett Favre's camp again any day now...

[RayKingsForemanGrill]

Jim Joyce is a stand up guy: http://wxyt.cbslocal.com/...rraga-of-a-perfect-game/

[Dragonbait]

Ok.. It WAS the wrong call....

 

However... I'm gonna come out in Jim Joyce's defence on this one...

 

At full speed from the 2nd base side.. once Gallaraga caught the ball... it appeared like (to me anyways) the ball moved in the glove a little bit before he 'snow-coned' it.

 

If that's what Jim saw, I can forgive him a bit.

 

edit - I see in last night's IGT someone said the bobble didn't factor in Jim's decision.

[davego]

but as soon as Leyland came out, he could have asked for help from the other umps and they could have talked some sanity into the situation.

[craigharmann]

Amazing. I finally saw it on the Today show this morning, and Joyce actually got together with Galarraga and apologized. He had a radio interview where he said that he takes his job seriously and no one feels worse than he does. I take him at his word. I think he really blew it, and he knows it. It's nice to see that he apologized!

[jeffy]

I feel terrible for Galarraga and Joyce. But major kudos to both--Galarraga for not blowing up and just smiling it off; Joyce for owning up and admitting.

 

And major kudos to Galarraga after the game saying that everyone makes mistakes and basically shrugging it off. I wish I could use this as an example of sportsmanship, etc. in my classroom, but elementary students, for the most part, would be "who cares?" and/or not get the point.

Joyce also showed a lot of restraint in not throwing anybody out. He took a lot of abuse, while thinking that he had made the right call. Assuming he does not have a history of blowing calls, more umpires should be like Jim Joyce.

Galarraga has got to be one of the most relaxed, even-tempered players ever, not only did he just smile after getting robbed, when the perfect game was kept intact by that over-the-shoulder catch in CF, he also just reacted with a little smile.

[Patrick425]

This is my thinking on it. I equate it to the Dad who is umping a little league game that his son is playing in and is trying to be so fair that he is overly fair. As the play was being made I think Jim Joyce thought to himself "I'm going to call this like I would call any other play and if I think he's safe, I'm calling it that way..no matter how close it is." I think he got caught up in his mind with trying to be "overly fair". I really believe that if this play had happened earlier in the game (before the 5th inning), he possibly would have made the right call.

 

Also...How about the play for the first out in the ninth? There was no way I thought that ball was going to be caught.

[lcbj68c]

The first time I seen it, I watched it full speed, and I honestly though the runner was safe. The way Gallaraga seemed to be stepping at the bag, took an extra stab or steps, I thought the runner was safe. It's unfortunate, but Jim Joyce did all the right things except his eyes didnt transmit the truth to his brain. I can't fault him for that. Blame MLB for not having a system in place to correct human error.

[TooLiveBrew]

the ball did kinda rattle around in Gallaraga's glove. That wasn't readily apparent unless you watch the close®-up angle from the 2Bman's p.o.v.

 

Given that rattling around, the play was much closer than it looked initially, but the runner was still out.