Isn't Escobar supposed to be good with the leather?

[JJHardy7]

I think the real problem is all those home runs. Jeepers.

 

Whatever stats they showed you were misleading, to say the least. Baseball fans will forever complain about an inconsistent offense but there's no such thing as an offense that scores 5 runs every game. They are a myth. It should be obvious what they problems are with this team. Their hitting is probably the only thing that's been good.

 

I apologize for not remembering the numbers exactly...but they weren't a myth. They actually happened...

 

I get hitting has been good at times. I get that. It just hasn't been consistent. This offense is not some world beater. How could it be? I get that we have some solid players and we have the potential to turn it on. We still have holes that won't make up for poor pitching. It goes both ways. There is a pretty large gap in runs scored in wins and runs score in losses. Again, I apologize for not having the exact number, but I think it was 4 or 5 runs a game in wins and losses...I don't get what that would have to do with pitching or defense. That is just an inconsistent offense IMO.

 

My main point as well (in my rant) is in regard to Escobar. If you just want to pull out that one piece, that is fine. That would just be a small sample size. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

You actually compared last night's game to the game tonight. Ideally we need more guys to get on base. We have too many holes on the offensive side IMO without having a better pitching staff and a better defense. So thus...you need more consistent hitting.

[logan82]

I don't get the wrath with Escobar in a way.

 

I think the anger is more the fact that we were misled to believe Escobar was a really good defender and he is, right now well below average.

 

I apologize for not remembering the numbers exactly...but they weren't a myth. They actually happened...

 

Sure they happened. All teams are inconsistent on offense.

 

There is a pretty large gap in runs scored in wins and runs score in losses.

 

Sounds pretty logical to me. Sounds like something that would again be true for most teams.

 

Again, I apologize for not having the exact number, but I think it was 4 or 5 runs a game in wins and losses...I don't get what that would have to do with pitching or defense. That is just an inconsistent offense IMO.

 

If I had to guess, I would say that most teams win quite a bit when they score 5 or more runs. If you have a good pitching staff, you can win while scoring fewer runs. It is all about run differential. Run distribution matters to some extent but run differential is more important since it is easier to control.

[mletto157]

There is a pretty large gap in runs scored in wins and runs score in losses.

 

Brilliant! When teams score more, they generally win... when teams score less, then generally lose. We should just tell the Brewers to score 10 runs every game... don't they know they would win more?

[mletto157]

Unable to edit my post... meant to have the sentence starting with "W should" in blue. :-)

[pebadger]

I think what the JJH was getting at (and I don't know what the current numbers are) is that the Brewers tend to win in blowouts and lose everything else, at least with a far greater freqency than most other teams do. That really isn't any way to run a railroad unless you plan on blowing people out all the time. Maybe they're just unlucky and there is little validity to the idea that winning close games over some acceptably-sufficient sample size is about competing at a higher level than your opponent.

[JJHardy7]

Brilliant! When teams score more, they generally win... when teams score less, then generally lose. We should just tell the Brewers to score 10 runs every game... don't they know they would win more?

 

Thanks.

 

I think what the JJH was getting at (and I don't know what the current numbers are) is that the Brewers tend to win in blowouts and lose everything else, at least with a far greater freqency than most other teams do. That really isn't any way to run a railroad unless you plan on blowing people out all the time. Maybe they're just unlucky and there is little validity to the idea that winning close games over some acceptably-sufficient sample size is about competing at a higher level than your opponent.

 

Yes. And I do know if you score more runs you win or if you score a lot. I just don't get the wrath on some of the defense when we're only scoring 1 run a game in the past 3. It just seems that when one thing is clicking we're not clicking in other places. Feel free to poke on that, but if this team is going to get on a run we need to try and have our hitting, pitching, and defense clicking. It just hasn't for most of the season IMO.

[RockCoCougars]

The wrath for Escobar isn't just for his defense, which has been borderline brutal. It's also for his pathetic performance at the plate. Since May 25, he has had ONE extra base hit (a double on June 19). Going further, when he does get on base, he has made numerous baserunning mistakes- the speed merchant we were promised is on pace for 12 or so steals (I guess you can't steal first). I'm willing to give this guy the chance to play through this, but he has a long way to go to even become adequate. He has shown a few 'flashes', but they have been few and far between.

 

Hardy was much better all-around his rookie season and he didn't have 40 games under his belt as Escobar had last year. Escobar has already made 4 more errors than Hardy made that entire season. Thus far, Escobar is a huge downgrade from Hardy, who got a raw deal here. Don't give me Hardy's stat line from this year either, his batting average is low, but he has nearly as many extra base hits as Escobar in a little over half the plate appearances- only one error too.

[bjkrautk]

Hardy was much better all-around his rookie season and he didn't have 40 games under his belt as Escobar had last year. Escobar has already made 4 more errors than Hardy made that entire season. Thus far, Escobar is a huge downgrade from Hardy, who got a raw deal here. Don't give me Hardy's stat line from this year either, his batting average is low, but he has nearly as many extra base hits as Escobar in a little over half the plate appearances- only one error too.

J.J. Hardy's 1st half in his rookie season (2005)

.187 BA, .293 OBP, .267 Slg., .560 OPS (187 ABs)

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=5908&type=batting&year=2005

 

How quickly we forget. (Granted his .860 OPS after the break that year is a contributing factor in that forgetfulness.)

 

 

Regardless of whether you like how Hardy was treated last year or in the off-season, if he hadn't been traded, Escobar still would have played 30-40 games for the Brewers this season (and would have out OPS'd Hardy in them). I like J.J., he was one of my favorite guys when he was here, but he was always a very streaky hitter.

[logan82]

I am down on Escobar this year because he has not even met my very low expectations. I only expected him to be an average defender and with a .320 OBP with a mid .600's OPS. He might get there by the end of the year but as of right now, he is disappointing.

[fondybrewfan]

I am getting to the point where it might be better for his development if they sent him back to AAA. He seems completely out of his element right now and needs to be away from the bright lights of MLB for a while. They guy can't go from the best SS in all of the minor leagues to a terrible MLB SS just because he isn't as talented as everyone though. The more likely explanation is that his head just isn't right, hes not concentrating, putting too much pressure on himeself, etc.

[Ennder]

Escobar has more or less been exactly the player I expected this year. I'd imagine next year he starts to become more like what people expected out of him. There is a reason I was against trading Hardy going into 2009 because there was no reason to think Escobar was ready at that point.

[logan82]

I blame winter ball. Not really but I hope Escobar skips winter ball from now on. I don't like our MLB guys doing anything other than training in the offseason. Full speed games would wear them out and increase risk for injury in my opinion. Your body needs some rest after 6 months of baseball.

[JJHardy7]

The wrath for Escobar isn't just for his defense, which has been borderline brutal. It's also for his pathetic performance at the plate. Since May 25, he has had ONE extra base hit (a double on June 19). Going further, when he does get on base, he has made numerous baserunning mistakes- the speed merchant we were promised is on pace for 12 or so steals (I guess you can't steal first). I'm willing to give this guy the chance to play through this, but he has a long way to go to even become adequate. He has shown a few 'flashes', but they have been few and far between.

 

Is he given the green light to steal though? I think Escobar does have good speed. I think it was expected he'd go through some hitting growing pains. That was the major concern when he was in the minors and was discussed quite a bit in the minor league forum. Escobar's OPS was .686 in April and .676 in May. That level of OPS isn't blazing, but if he can put together a few more months like that I'll take that.

 

logan...you might be on to something in regard to the winter ball. It does seem like he's not hitting as well (relatively speaking) now as he was the first few months. I would prefer that he stay in the bigs the rest of the year, but no matter where he is I hope he starts every day. Hopefully he'll learn and use this year as a learning experience and maybe put together a solid second half. We need Escobar to be the player he can be.