Would the police actually lie?

[SheetsCyYoung04]

Now I know this somewhat sounds like I am making excuses but since there is a level of anonymity I guess I can explain my situation without it seeming too much like that.

 

I was going on 94 east in Pewaukee approaching TT (Meadowbrook Rd.). I was somewhat frustrated with what was happening in the Brewer game (and earlier today), so admittedly I was going fast. 75 mph according to my gauge. Im somewhat of a local, so I know that police like to hide on-ramp of the bridge, but I had to get off on Highway T and had to get over two lanes so I wanted to pass the truck on my right. Sure enough there is an officer on the on-ramp clocking traffic. I was watching over there so I saw him as soon as he saw me. I hit slowed down, but it wasnt enough.

 

So he approaches my vehicle, "Is there a reason you were going 80?" Now this caught me a little off guard. I was monitoring my speed closely. I was only going 75 on my gauge. So I questioned him alittle bit but I didnt want to try to kill any chance of a mark down I could get, so I wasnt confrontational about it. Now, my truck is getting up there in years. It is fairly rusted, from 1993, and logged alot of tough miles. It is possible that the gauge is a little off. It doesnt do any crazy bobbling around under 25 like some older gauges do but it is possible it could be off by 5 mph, I guess. I doesnt feel noticeably faster driving or than other cars but...

 

So he comes back, gives me a ticket for 80, so I asked him if it was 80 or around 80. Now, he tells me he clocked me at 80 or above twice well I was going under the bridge. However I saw him as soon as he saw me. I hit the brakes as soon as I saw him. I saw the moment he pulled his gun back in the car. It was well before the bridge.It didnt seem like enough time to get two readings on me, but maybe it takes them multiple times before my reaction time (It was an almost instantaneous slow down because I was looking for him on the ramp) I am not overly upset about because I am not in a position that I am going to lose my license or in financial trouble.

 

Is there any reason why he would say I was going 80 and not 75? Has anyone had any experience like this before? As a younger person is there anyway I can verify he was telling the truth?

[JimH5]

Every single time (and there have been a few over the years) that I have been ticketed for speeding, I swear that the police gun says I'm going faster than I think I was.

 

Because it's happened with different cops in different counties, in different states, I have to assume that the issue is with ME and not them. Maybe I see them and make an adjustment too late, and my eyes pick up the speedometer after I've already slowed down just a little. Who knows. . .

 

In any case, I doubt HIGHLY that a judge would cut you slack for going 75 mph vs. going 80. "Yes, your honor, I'm confident that my 15 year old analog speedometer is more accurate than the technology that the police was using". It just begs for a ruling unfavorable to you.

 

Just take your lumps, assume that it might actually be you who was in the wrong, and start driving the speed limit. And turn the game off whenever Cordero comes in. . .

[SheetsCyYoung04]

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In any case, I doubt HIGHLY that a judge would cut you slack for going 75 mph vs. going 80.

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Yeah, that is definitely part of the pickle, that it does me little good to spend money on a mechanic to tell me the gauge wasnt working for a defense, when I admit that I was going 10 over. If I go to court to see if a judge will mark it down at all, am I better off just leaving this whole stuff out as I will sound like some 21 year old Pinocchio, because I am sure they have heard all kinds of stories before?

[JimH5]

If I go to court to see if a judge will mark it down at all, am I better off just leaving this whole stuff out as I will sound like some 21 year old Pinocchio, because I am sure they have heard all kinds of stories before?

 

I haven't ever fought my tickets in court, so anything I offer from here is pure speculation. But I'll bet others will offer some solid advice. . .

 

And there is something about "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" that would lead me to think that leaving parts out is frowned upon.

[Point Beer Is Best]

My uncle once told me that you could challenge that your speedometer was off. Of course you'd have to spend the time and money to check it, so it might not even be worth it. Especially for only 5mph.

[DSFastball55]

I have two responses to this:

1. I have been told by someone who should know that the speed guns that cops use are just like the speed guns used in baseball. They are not always accurate, sometimes you will get a high or low reading and thus you can fight it if you do your research. However, if they actually time you between two points it is much harder to dispute.

2. I'm not a big fan of police in general to be honest, despite the fact that I've never been in any kind of trouble. I know several policemen, and most of them do it just for the power trip. However not all are like that I'm sure. I know a guy that got pulled over and arrested for drunk driving, was hauled to jail 25 miles away, and blew a 0.00 at the police station. This guy has not had a drink in 15 years. The cop was later successfully sued for harrassment.

[trwi7]

All you need to know is that Pewaukee police are asses so you quite possibly been going 75.

[DHonks]

All you need to know is that Pewaukee police are asses so you quite possibly been going 75.

 

Pewaukee police wouldn't be patrolling I94

 

I had one ticket, it was in that speed trap by Elkhorn. I was 16, so I guess that was 11 years ago. I was frustrated, because my fuzz-buster went off, and the unmarked car's mirror-lights started flashing right behind me. Frustrated, not cause of my ticket, but because when the radar detector went off, I was looking at the lane to my right where a red pickup truck was blowing past me. Yes, I was going 11 over. Heck, a few miles back I was going 20 over. But it just made me feel like I had been picked out as easy prey.

 

Also, after working around technology during summers in college, I wonder how often police officers/departments properly calibrate their technology. We had sophisticated scientific technology that had to be calibrated often...many instruments required weekly, daily, or hourly calibration.

[SheetsCyYoung04]

It was a county sheriff. He certainly wasnt the most cheery officer, but if I had to work on a Saturday night when the Brewers were playing (badly) I wouldnt be at my best either. Well I am sure there are some officers who feel it is there job to be on a constant power trip, the vast majority are just trying to do the job they are paid to do. Meh, just wasnt my day.

[trwi7]

Oh okay I just saw Pewaukee and skimmed the rest. If it wasn't Pewaukee police you were probably going 80.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Baldkin]

Ask to see the radar gun next time.

 

They do lie, especially in smaller towns (and if you have out of state plates)

[TheCrew07]

In my experience when I had lead foot issues in my late teens and early 20s they always say 5 MPH over. I figured this out fast so when they'd ask me I'd always go 10 MPH under, then he has to tell you the speed he locked you in at. Usually it's right around what I was traveling anyway, the only time I got off with a warning the patrolmen told me to get my speedometer checked...

 

Radar guns have a +/- of 7mph if I remember my physics lab on wave reflection properly, it's been a long time though. Laser guns are much more accurate, and the law considers them 100% accurate. This is the whole reason why all levels of police patrols are so picky about the front license plates... with the streamlining of automobiles the license plate is the best forward reflecting surface on the car... awful hard to write you a ticket if they don't get a reading...

[endaround]

At 80 you're 15 over-at 75 you're 10 over-big difference in fines/points. If you go to court, you'll have the points dropped but not the fine. It will be ruled 1-10 over vs 10-20 over. It also will have a smaller effect on your insurance.

 

And yeah, depending upon his "quota" he may have lied to get you up to 80 since 1-10 over citations don't do much.

[Brian the Automator]

I got pulled over and ticketed by Pewaukee police for "running a red light". I entered when it was yellow, and it just flicked red as I got about halfway through the intersection.

 

The cop said that I entered the intersection when it was red, but he was totally lying.

 

I'm sure there are some fine Pewaukee police officers out there, but so far my experience has been contrary to that.

[bullox]

One time when I was pulled over in Texas for speeding, I asked to see the speed gun. After getting berated for about 5 minutes for questioning authority and "getting smart" with an officer, I drove away with a warning.

[rluzinski]

Can't you request to see the reading on the radar gun?

[AJOHNSON104]

You can request to to see the reading, but they don't have to show you (although not a bad idea). When using laser, the officer may press the triggerr to try to get a higher speed and thus get a lower one. If he showed you the lower one, you wouldn't believe that there was a higher one, etc.

Most agencies use laser almost exclusively in high traffic areas like the freeway so they can pick off cars. The reading is instant and can be done at close to a mile, so often you won't see them until its too late.

The laser should get checked daily to make sure the distance function is accurate. If not done, it could be off a little and thus skew the speed reading. They also get checked annually to get certified.

If someone wants to press their speeding ticket, a request for the annual certification would be handy as well as asking the officer if he was certified and whether he did his daily calibration check. It could be costly to fight, but if someone was looking at a license/insurance problem, there are lawyers that are very good at making the officer and department look bad. It can cost well over $1000 to do this though.

[UeckerAddict]

Just reading the topic.

 

Yes.

[Paul77]

Before I comment I will say this...I support the police, I think highly of most police. I teach my kids to be respectful of the police and I understand that police officers have a tough job that produces a lot of stress. I know there are aspects of the job I can't relate to, but...

 

Pewaukee cops are an interesting bunch. Cops here are on the look out 24-7. On one hand, as a person that lives here, I'm appreciative of the police presence. But on the other hand, I've never before lived somewhere where I constantly "fear" being pulled over.

 

Three years ago I was coming home from work. I was at a stop sign waiting for cars to pass so I could turn. One of the cars that passed in the opposite direction was a police car. Sure enough as soon as I made my turn he flips the lights on and u-turns it.

 

He walked up to my car and asked me if I knew why I was being pulled. I really didn't know why so I said, "did I not come to a complete stop back there?" He ignored me and flashed his light around my car. He says, "sir have you been drinking. Looks like you have an open beverage". I turn around a can of DIET COKE so he could see the label and he says, "okay, I wasn't sure what that was.

 

He asks for my info (blah blah blah) and goes back to his car. And I wait & wait. About 10 minutes pass before he comes back and says "Sorry, I just didn't think you lived around here." and sent me on my way. I was like "are you kidding".

 

Then three weeks ago I was heading west, going to the post office. I'm about 5 blocks away when a cop drives by me going east. I watched him in the mirror looking for the famous "Pewaukee U turn". And sure enough he did.

 

There were about 3 cars behind me (and therefore between us) so his didn't turn his light on yet. So I kicked the cruise control in at 26mph and kept driving. I got to within a block of the post office before the cop caught up to me and hit his lights. I pull over, he sits in his car for a few minutes before ticketing me for expired plates. I never argue with cops, I find that gets you nowhere, but I did wonder how he saw my expired plates while going in the opposite direction. Or maybe he saw them through the 3 cars that were between us. Or maybe, just maybe, it's possible he decided to pull me over before he knew why.

 

I will say that the cop in my most recent experience was polite and what not. Had he not given me a ticket in the manner he did, I would have thought he was a very nice. It was just weird.

[pogokat]

If youve ever had tires put on your ar or ttruck that were a different size than the original manufacturer materials, then your speedo i offf...5mph is extreme, but definitely possible if you have a tire thats a couple inches bigger in diameter

[TracyThom]

Where to begin...

 

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However I saw him as soon as he saw me. I hit the brakes as soon as I saw him. I saw the moment he pulled his gun back in the car. It was well before the bridge.It didnt seem like enough time to get two readings on me, but maybe it takes them multiple times before my reaction time (It was an almost instantaneous slow down because I was looking for him on the ramp)

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It's about 99.9% probable that the deputy was using a laser. On the interstate, a radar would be no good due to all of the traffic. As mentioned earlier, a deputy can get a reading from almost a mile away. The deputy puts the dot on the car he wishes to get a reading from a presses the trigger. The reading comes back almost instantly. The only thing I can think of is that there might have been another vehicle nearby that looked the same as yours and the officer pulled you over instead of him.

 

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I have been told by someone who should know that the speed guns that cops use are just like the speed guns used in baseball.

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Radars in baseball games operate on a different band that police radars. In this case, the deputy was more than likely using laser aka lidar which is 100% different than baseball.

 

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Also, after working around technology during summers in college, I wonder how often police officers/departments properly calibrate their technology.

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Cops don't calibrate the speed equipment. They check the calibration before and after any citation is issued.

 

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Ask to see the radar gun next time. They do lie, especially in smaller towns (and if you have out of state plates)

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The officer/deputy/trooper has no obligation to show you the laser or radar reading. Yeah, if you have Illinois or Florida plates, never believe anything the officer says. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/eyes.gif

 

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Radar guns have a +/- of 7mph if I remember my physics lab on wave reflection properly, it's been a long time though. Laser guns are much more accurate, and the law considers them 100% accurate. This is the whole reason why all levels of police patrols are so picky about the front license plates... with the streamlining of automobiles the license plate is the best forward reflecting surface on the car... awful hard to write you a ticket if they don't get a reading...

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In order for the radar to be in properly working order, it must be within 1 MPH of a known speed. Cops carry calibrated tuning forks in their squads that is used to check the calibration. If the reading is more than 1 MPH off, the radar cannot be used.

 

It's easiest to get a reading off a front license plate, but an officer can still get a reading off the front grill, bumper, etc.

 

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At 80 you're 15 over-at 75 you're 10 over-big difference in fines/points. If you go to court, you'll have the points dropped but not the fine. It will be ruled 1-10 over vs 10-20 over. It also will have a smaller effect on your insurance.

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Who told you this steaming pile of misinformation? It's a 4 point violation at 11-15 over. It's a 3 point violation at 1-10 over. EDIT: The dollar amount between 10 over and 15 over is exactly the same. Not what I call a big difference.

 

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And yeah, depending upon his "quota" he may have lied to get you up to 80 since 1-10 over citations don't do much.

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Just think, if the officer would have lied and said you were doing 85, he would have won an MP3 Player from his police department because of his quota. Those 20+ MPH over speeding cites are worth so much more than those 15 MPH over ones. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/eyes.gif By the way, ticket quotas are illegal in Wisconsin.

 

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I never argue with cops, I find that gets you nowhere, but I did wonder how he saw my expired plates while going in the opposite direction.

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Do you have a front license plate? The officer saw it as he passed, ran it on his computer, and it came back expired.

 

 

If you want to contest the citation, go ahead. It's everyone's right. The truth is that police and the prosecution will do their best to avoid going to trial. If you really want to contest the citation, read the back of the citation. It will tell you how to contest it. Once you plead not guilty, you will hear from the city/county's attorney. Chances are you will set up a pre-trial conference. That's where the game begins. See if the prosecution will allow your citation to be amended to a lower speed or to an equipment violation like faulty spedometer. If you do go all the way and fight the citation with a trial and lose, expect no mercy from the judge.

[rluzinski]

The dollar amount varies from around $40 to about $90.

 

I haven't gotten a speeding ticket under $100 in about 10 years (all on freeways), so I'm not sure about those figures. Here's a FAQ from a Dane County website:

 

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Q: Why do I have to pay all these fees and surcharges?

 

A: The fees and surcharges that are added to your ticket are set by state statute. The legislature and the Governor have set the amount of these fees. These fees have increased drastically over the past ten years. The officer and the court must abide by state statutes. The officer and the court are not responsible for setting the amount of these fees and surcharges.

 

Q: Where do these fees go?

 

A: On a typical speeding ticket, the minimum ticket amount is broken down as follows:

 

* Forfeiture: $30-Goes to the county; if it's a state charge, it's split 50-50 with the state

* 23% Penalty Assessment:$7.20-Goes to the state for a law enforcement training fund

* Court Costs: $25-The state gets $15, the county gets $10

* Justice Information Fee: $9-Goes to the state for computer systems development (includes non-court systems)

* Jail Assessment Fee: $10-Goes to the Sheriff's Office for jail expansion and maintenance

* Drug Enforcement Assessment: $7-Goes to the state crime laboratory

* Court Support Fee: $68-Goes to the state; a portion is returned to counties in block grants for court-related expenditures

* TOTAL: $156.20-YOU PAY THIS AMOUNT

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LINK

 

Am I missing something here?

[dadofandrew]

I always love it when Tracy shows up on a police matter. I still recall the greatest line of his of all-time..."nice group of friends you hang out with"...when someone said they had many friends cited for drug use.

[TracyThom]

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Am I missing something here?

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You misread my reply. I meant that the difference in fine amounts between a citation for 10 over and 15 over is between $40 and $90. I did not mean the citation amount was between $40 and $90. However, I just did some checking and the fine amounts for those 2 offenses, and I'm mistaken. The fine amount for 10 over and 15 over is EXACTLY THE SAME. The only difference is 1-10 over is a 3 point violation and 11-15 over is a 4 point violation.

 

www.wicourts.gov/about/pu...ched07.pdf

 

Speeding is under 346.57. Speeding in a 65 MPH zone is under 346.57 (4)(gm) (PDF Page 24) County departments and Wisconsin State Patrol write for the full bond amount because their offenses go to county court. So, a citation for 15 over on the interstate is $186.00 when written by an agency whose court is held by a county court. Cities and villages with municipal court take the deposit amount (for instance $50 in this case) and then add municipal court costs. (See the last page of the bond book PDF file.) For instance, you are speeding 15 miles over the limit on I-94 near Lake Mills. If a State Trooper or Jefferson County Sheriff's Department Deputy writes you a citation for 15 over, the fine amount is $186.00. However, if a Lake Mills PD officer is sitting out on the interstate and he writes a citation for 15 over, the fine amount is anywhere between $96 and $109, depending on their court costs.

 

This whole conversation does not make any sense to start with. If an officer lies in a police report, on a citation, or in court, he gets fired. Bottom line. He is no longer a credible witness, and the district attorney's office has no use for them. Officers are allowed to use deception when conducting interviews and doing investigations. There is a big difference between intentionally putting the wrong speed on a citation and telling a robbery suspect during an interview that he left his fingerprints behind when no fingerprints existed.

[danzig6767]

By the way, ticket quotas are illegal in Wisconsin.

 

I'm curious TracyThom,even if quotas are illegal,are police expected to produce roughly a certain number of tickets even if there is no exact set quotas?

 

My daughters mother has 2 Milwaukee cops in her family and i used to ask them various cop questions that interested me,but that was some years ago and don't remember answers they gave fo the most part except for some crazy stuff they saw.