How much longer for Jeff Suppan? -- Latest: Suppan signs with STL, starts 6/15

[cadillacjosh]

Well Chris Smith coming up certainly doesnt excite me in any way, but happy to see some moves being made. Even if it doesnt help the team all that much this year it settled my fear that he might be resigned for some reason.

[brettac1]

He did more damage than Jeffrey Hammonds could have ever even imagined.

[AJAY]

I am so thrilled that Suppan is finally gone. The nightmare is over. But it still seems way too late. He never should have made the roster this season.

[bullox]

Melvin brought up an interesting point regarding the free agent class of pitchers the year that Suppan signed his deal.

 

Taken from McCalvy's blog page:

 

"It's a fair question. Have any of you done your homework to determine who the free agent players were that year?" he asked reporters before answering himself. "We could have signed Jason Schmidt. He signed for three years and $47 million. Barry Zito was seven years and $126 [million]. Gil Meche was five years and $55 [million]. Miguel Batista, three years and $25 [million]. Jason Marquis, three and $25 [million]. Vicente Padilla, two and $20 [million]. Ted Lilly, at four years and $40 [million], was probably the pitcher who performed the best out of that group. "

[topper09er]

From 2007-2010, the 5 pitchers who started at least 90 games and allowed more earned runs than strikeouts:

 

Player, SO, GS, ER

Aaron Cook 266 95 277

Zach Duke 279 94 303

Livan Hernandez 289 106 362

Braden Looper 295 97 301

Jeff Suppan 302 97 326

[jeffy]

I would be more excited about this move if his replacement wasn't Chris Smith.

This is entirely correct. What an incredible "who cares" moment. I support his release, but are the Brewers any better than they were when I woke up this morning? No. For those that were insistent that management's desire to keep Suppan on the roster, was keeping other players off, or making the team worse, I give you Chris Smith. They finally released Suppan, but he has not been replaced by a player that was being blocked, or was going to make the team better. Why? Because that player didn't exist. Suppan's presence on the roster yesterday had about as much impact on the team, as his absence does today.

Agree, but wouldn't you assume Chris Smith is just here for a couple days until Riske replaces him? Probably the timing is just to to avoid any chance of Suppan in the mound at MP, given the fans reaction last time that happened.

[logan82]

From 2007-2010, the 5 pitchers who started at least 90 games and allowed more earned runs than strikeouts:

 

Player, SO, GS, ER

Aaron Cook 266 95 277

Zach Duke 279 94 303

Livan Hernandez 289 106 362

Braden Looper 295 97 301

Jeff Suppan 302 97 326

I would like to see the ERA, WHIP, and FIP for those pitchers over that time. Those stats really don't show me much.

[battlekow]

Melvin brought up an interesting point regarding the free agent class of pitchers the year that Suppan signed his deal.

 

Taken from McCalvy's blog page:

 

"It's a fair question. Have any of you done your homework to determine who the free agent players were that year?" he asked reporters before answering himself. "We could have signed Jason Schmidt. He signed for three years and $47 million. Barry Zito was seven years and $126 [million]. Gil Meche was five years and $55 [million]. Miguel Batista, three years and $25 [million]. Jason Marquis, three and $25 [million]. Vicente Padilla, two and $20 [million]. Ted Lilly, at four years and $40 [million], was probably the pitcher who performed the best out of that group. "

The flaw is the assumption that he had to sign at least one of those players, though perhaps Attanasio forced him to.

[MJLiverock]

Just like Attanasio forced him to sign Wolf, Looper, Gagne, Hawkins, Riske, Davis...

[trwi7]

When you enter into free-agent contracts, it's one of the riskiest things we do," said Melvin. "We all get excited about free agents but not a lot of free-agent contracts with pitchers that you do get the full length of performance over the contract.

You'd think he would've learned from that.

[brewmann04]

The flaw is the team inabilty to have home grown pitchers forced us into this mess.

[TheCrew07]

Melvin brought up an interesting point regarding the free agent class of pitchers the year that Suppan signed his deal.

 

Taken from McCalvy's blog page:

 

"It's a fair question. Have any of you done your homework to determine who the free agent players were that year?" he asked reporters before answering himself. "We could have signed Jason Schmidt. He signed for three years and $47 million. Barry Zito was seven years and $126 [million]. Gil Meche was five years and $55 [million]. Miguel Batista, three years and $25 [million]. Jason Marquis, three and $25 [million]. Vicente Padilla, two and $20 [million]. Ted Lilly, at four years and $40 [million], was probably the pitcher who performed the best out of that group. "

Quotes like this are the reason I've lost faith in Melvin... like FA was his only choice? Instead of signing the best value the Brewers can afford maybe he should just admit to himself that the FA pitching market stinks for a team like Milwaukee. Why spend money just to spend it badly? That's one thing I've never understood, why max out the payroll simply because we can?

[brettac1]

Melvin brought up an interesting point regarding the free agent class of pitchers the year that Suppan signed his deal.

 

Taken from McCalvy's blog page:

 

"It's a fair question. Have any of you done your homework to determine who the free agent players were that year?" he asked reporters before answering himself. "We could have signed Jason Schmidt. He signed for three years and $47 million. Barry Zito was seven years and $126 [million]. Gil Meche was five years and $55 [million]. Miguel Batista, three years and $25 [million]. Jason Marquis, three and $25 [million]. Vicente Padilla, two and $20 [million]. Ted Lilly, at four years and $40 [million], was probably the pitcher who performed the best out of that group. "

Quotes like this are the reason I've lost faith in Melvin... like FA was his only choice? Instead of signing the best value the Brewers can afford maybe he should just admit to himself that the FA pitching market stinks for a team like Milwaukee. Why spend money just to spend it badly? That's one thing I've never understood, why max out the payroll simply because we can?

This was exactly the reason why a lot of people were against it here back when it happened. It just didn't make sense.

[bullox]

The flaw is the assumption that he had to sign at least one of those players, though perhaps Attanasio forced him to.

Well I suppose the Brewers could have kept trotting out the Obermuellers of the world, but I'm pretty sure a free agent pitcher was high on just about everyone's wish list that winter. Melvin took a stab, and like the vast majority of the other clubs who signed pitchers that year, it didn't work out as planned.

[monty57]

Well, Smith can't possibly be worse than Suppan. Plus, it gives us more flexibility to option players to/from AAA as injured players heal up or the bullpen gets taxed. Not to mention, the fans need something to rejoice about with the dismal way the team's playing. Sad that it has to come at the expense of a seemingly "good guy," but it's the fans' money that keeps the team going, and Suppan was the focus of a lot of fan anger.

[topper09er]

Those stats really don't show me much.

 

So you think allowing more ER than strikeouts may be a result of bad luck? How do those stats not show you that those pitchers suck. You can maybe forgive Cook a little bit for a Coors inflated ERA but the others have no excuses.

 

I would like to see the ERA, WHIP, and FIP for those pitchers over that time.

 

Fangraphs wont let me easily get the FIP for a portion of a players career, so FIP listed are the "average" based on my judgement.

 

Player, SO, GS, ER, ERA, ERA+, WHIP, FIP

Aaron Cook 266 95 277 4.17 112 1.32 4.3

Zach Duke 279 94 303 4.74 88 1.497 4.4

Livan Hernandez 289 106 362 5.08 86 1.559 5.0

Braden Looper 295 97 301 4.76 89 1.38 4.5

Jeff Suppan 302 97 326 5.08 83 1.596 4.9

[RockCoCougars]

bullox]Melvin brought up an interesting point regarding the free agent class of pitchers the year that Suppan signed his deal.

 

Taken from McCalvy's blog page:

 

"It's a fair question. Have any of you done your homework to determine who the free agent players were that year?" he asked reporters before answering himself. "We could have signed Jason Schmidt. He signed for three years and $47 million. Barry Zito was seven years and $126 [million]. Gil Meche was five years and $55 [million]. Miguel Batista, three years and $25 [million]. Jason Marquis, three and $25 [million]. Vicente Padilla, two and $20 [million]. Ted Lilly, at four years and $40 [million], was probably the pitcher who performed the best out of that group. "

I know that it's hyperbole, but that is kind of like arguing that Stalin wasn't quite as 'bad' as Hitler. Melvin is just lucky that Dave Roberts decided that he wanted to play on the West Coast that offseason (and that the Giants were stupid enough to pay him well to do so). The history of Brewers' 'big free agent signings' is horrible- the only one that I can think of that worked out OK was Dave Parker. They have had much more luck being scavengers, picking up fringe type guys.

[brettac1]

It's pretty bad when you're paying a pitcher that's worse than Braden Looper $12 million.

[TheCrew07]

The flaw is the assumption that he had to sign at least one of those players, though perhaps Attanasio forced him to.

Well I suppose the Brewers could have kept trotting out the Obermuellers of the world, but I'm pretty sure a free agent pitcher was high on just about everyone's wish list that winter. Melvin took a stab, and like the vast majority of the other clubs who signed pitchers that year, it didn't work out as planned.

Or instead of trading 2 impact hitters for a closer and garbage he should have targeted some real pitching... we've been through this before, FA hasn't been Melvin's only option to upgrade the rotation, that's just the option he chose. He chose to continually trade out the crap at the bottom of the rotation instead of addressing the top of the rotation.

 

Milwaukee's pitching situation isn't an accident.

[sheethead]

TheCrew07]

Melvin brought up an interesting point regarding the free agent class of pitchers the year that Suppan signed his deal.

 

Taken from McCalvy's blog page:

 

"It's a fair question. Have any of you done your homework to determine who the free agent players were that year?" he asked reporters before answering himself. "We could have signed Jason Schmidt. He signed for three years and $47 million. Barry Zito was seven years and $126 [million]. Gil Meche was five years and $55 [million]. Miguel Batista, three years and $25 [million]. Jason Marquis, three and $25 [million]. Vicente Padilla, two and $20 [million]. Ted Lilly, at four years and $40 [million], was probably the pitcher who performed the best out of that group. "

Quotes like this are the reason I've lost faith in Melvin... like FA was his only choice? Instead of signing the best value the Brewers can afford maybe he should just admit to himself that the FA pitching market stinks for a team like Milwaukee. Why spend money just to spend it badly? That's one thing I've never understood, why max out the payroll simply because we can?

This one hurt as well...

 

Melvin: "I am confident that he can return to a starting rotation with another

organization."

 

Well, I am confident Melvin will never get the Brewers back to the playoffs. I am more confident in my confidence that in Doug's.

[logan82]

Well, Smith can't possibly be worse than Suppan

 

I wouldn't be so sure. You have to be careful saying things like this. You might as well say a slow running catcher will never hit for the cycle with the Brewers.

[craigharmann]

Cue the Hallelujah Chorus!!! It's taken long enough, but this is a step in the right direction........now can Macha be fired? I'm not asking for too much, really!!

[sheethead]

I support his release, but are the Brewers any better than they were when I woke up this morning? No.

 

Well, Smith is Suppan's replacement, so yes the Brewers are better than they were yesterday.

[brewmann04]

Here a Noval idea maybe strat drafting Better and get some more Home Grown Starting Pitching and don't have to worry about overpaying for mediocre Fa pitching.

[RockCoCougars]

I think Smith will be a huge upgrade by default if anything else. Riske, I'm not so sure.... don't get me started.