How much longer for Jeff Suppan? -- Latest: Suppan signs with STL, starts 6/15

[pretendastronaut]

Dang, I wish the Brewers had someone who could go 4 innings with just one earned run. Oh gee, we did.

 

 

 

The Brewers gave Suppan 97 starts, he had an ERA over 5. Maybe you meant we had a pitcher who could go 4 innings with just one earned run ... sometimes. Suppan pitched 4 innings tonight, that hardly makes him the world beater, who was never given a fair shake, you're making him out to be.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

Using even a smaller sample sample size of outings isn't making much of a point.

The irony of this comment is breathtaking.

haha. I also didn't know his father posted here. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[geddymd73]

Dang, I wish the Brewers had someone who could go 4 innings with just one earned run. Oh gee, we did.

 

 

 

The Brewers gave Suppan 97 starts, he had an ERA over 5. Maybe you meant we had a pitcher who could go 4 innings with just one earned run ... sometimes. Suppan pitched 4 innings tonight, that hardly makes him the world beater, who was never given a fair shake, you're making him out to be.

He was released for his play this year, not any other year. If he had numbers similar to his 1st two years, or even last year, he'd still be on the time. Bottom line is, he got a minimal number of starts and they panicked. The Cards saw our error and capitalized on it.

[RockCoCougars]

He was released for his play this year, not any other year. If he had numbers similar to his 1st two years, or even last year, he'd still be on the time. Bottom line is, he got a minimal number of starts and they panicked. The Cards saw our error and capitalized on it.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. I'll be the first to admit that he pitched better tonight than I expected. He did the same in his first start with the Brewers this season. How did that turn out? It's not like he was dominant either, allowing 6 baserunners in 4 innings. Personally, I will withhold judgment until I see him string together about 3-4 more solid outings.

[TooLiveBrew]

No, no one panicked. If anything, the club waited too long. His stuff isn't good enough to consistently get AA hitters out, let alone MLB hitters. I'm not sure if you have a personal tie to Jeff or not, geddy, but I'm glad the club made the decision it did. In the hierarchy of Brewers starting pitchers, Suppan was at best 6th or 7th. There was no reason to keep him on the roster because he was less bad two or three years ago, and have him block guys you need to see pitch (like Parra, Cappy, Bush, Davis)

[brewers19]

Since 2005, Suppan's ERA, WHIP, H/9, and K/9 has gotten worse each year. His first two starts this year showed no indication that anything about that trend was going to change, and he was mercifully removed from the rotation. A lot of words can describe Melvin's (mis)handling of the Suppan situation, but 'panic' is most assuredly not one of them.

[young guns]

Right now, most if not all theories recently posited in this thread are possible:

 

Pulled before impending implosion

Ran himself tired on basepath

Soup is fixed/Duncan is a genius saint/Everyone in the Brewers' organization sucks

Wait to see how he pitches against a team having a better season than the 2010 Mariners

I'm going with he was pulled because he wasn't stretched out enough since we were using him as a reliever. He pitched better than I expected, but then again the Mariners lineup is atrocious. I think even I could make it through once without much damage.

[TheCrew]

Soup had to be pulled so he could get to bed, bath and beyond before they closed - he forgot his good pillow in Milwaukee.

[derflotr]

Jose Lopez batting cleanup? Oh my...

[kramnoj]

His first two starts this year showed no indication that anything about that trend was going to change, and he was mercifully removed from the rotation.

 

Suppan's first 2 starts in 2009 were worse than this year. He still managed to get his ERA under 4.5 in July before he had some bad starts and went on the DL. Two starts just isn't enough information.

 

As far as I'm concerned, Suppan was kept around as insurance this year. Once the Brewers had 2 months to see that they had enough pitchers in the majors and in AAA that were better than Suppan and healthy, they let him go. It really wouldn't have made much sense to cut Suppan before Riske was healthy, before Capuano was ready, before having a somewhat decent sample of seeing Axford and Braddock and Loe and feeling comfortable with them on the major league roster.

[Invader3K]

I can buy that Suppan was kept around for "depth", or "insurance." But there was absolutely no justification whatsoever for keeping him in the rotation after spring training, other than his contract.

[sheethead]

He was released for his play this year, not any other year.

 

He was released because he sucks, and can no longer get MLB hitters out consistently. The Mariners don't have many MLB caliber hitters in their lineup.

[jeffy]

I can buy that Suppan was kept around for "depth", or "insurance." But there was absolutely no justification whatsoever for keeping him in the rotation after spring training, other than his contract.

I don't think it is very common (or sensible) to base decisions on veteran players on their performance in spring training.

[Invader3K]

Well, tying it into his performance last season then?

[JohnBriggs12]

So Suppan got through 4 innings and two times through what is essentially a AAA lineup? Virtually every AAA pitcher could do that. The Mariner offense is woeful. They were so afraid to let their pitcher hit, that he was bunting with a runner on 2nd and 1 out.

 

I have Extra Innings and watched it. The Cardinal announcers, as I predicted, blabbered about Duncan having had found a minor flaw in his delivery. He looked like the same Suppan to me. Pujols made a nice play on Ichiro in the first inning or he might have given up some runs there (they left the bases loaded). After that, he allowed a ringing double to the gap and Bradley's opposite field HR. The Mariners might have scored a couple more runs but 2 or 3 of their hitters swung at ball 4 including Ichiro his second time up.

 

If the Cardinals have to rely on Suppan (and it sounded like they were), the Brewers might not be out of it after all.

[Thurston Fluff]

They found the fault in mechanics. Peterson never could. Suppan was never given enough starts this year to establish much as a starter. Each is probably good for 4 runs in 6 innings most of the time. Coming in for spot relief appearances isn't the same. He's getting strikeouts now and more velocity than he ever had here.

 

Neither could Castro or Maddux so I guess it must be a Brewer thing. Either that or he isn't fixed and it wasn't mechanical. It just might be his stuff isn't very good and he can only manage to get through 4 innings to one of the worst offenses in the league. An offense that has not had to face him regularly like NL ones do. I suspect another turn through even that lineup and we would have seen his numbers look like they did with us.

 

This is exactly the kind of thing that needs to happen to make the incompetent Brewers brass wake up. They gave in to fan panic, and the coaches couldn't fix a problem with mechanics. No patience. They never let Suppan start enough games.

 

Not anymore of a wake up call than Narveson shold be to the Cards brass. It's clearly their fault for ever needing Suppan in the first place. They had Narveson but had no idea how good he could be because they never gave him enough starts to find out.

[dlk9s]

Obviously, I'm no pitching coach, but I highly doubt Suppan's problems were related to mechanics. When I watched him pitch this year, his stuff looked fine, for the most part (in relative Jeff Suppan terms). Some pitches even showed some decent movement. His problem, like many soft tossers, is that he has to nibble at the corners to get people out, and when he isn't able to get ahead of hitters that way, he has to serve meatballs right over the heart of the plate. Unfortunately for Suppan and the Brewers, his stuff at this point in his career is worse than most soft tossers and even when he doesn't groove one down the middle, hitters are often able to size up his pitches and line them somewhere.

[Fatter than Joey]

As far as I'm concerned, Suppan was kept around as insurance this year. Once the Brewers had 2 months to see that they had enough pitchers in the majors and in AAA that were better than Suppan and healthy, they let him go. It really wouldn't have made much sense to cut Suppan before Riske was healthy, before Capuano was ready, before having a somewhat decent sample of seeing Axford and Braddock and Loe and feeling comfortable with them on the major league roster.

 

This is my feeling as well -- Plus Parra, Narveson and Bush were big enough question marks as well going into the season.

 

But there was absolutely no justification whatsoever for keeping him in the rotation after spring training, other than his contract.

 

Well, he was going to get paid one way or the other, it was sensible to let him fail before cutting him loose.

 

Not anymore of a wake up call than Narveson shold be to the Cards brass. They had Narveson but had no idea how good he could be because they never gave him enough starts to find out.

 

I really don't see Narveson as a good starter either... I am concerned that he won't be able to get RH batters out consistently.

 

It's clearly their fault for ever needing Suppan in the first place.

 

Injuries to Lohse and Penny are probably the biggest reason that the Cards needed to sign Suppan. They tried some of their AAA guys, and they didn't seem to work out. Suppan has a good history in StL., so it makes some degree of sense to sign him as opposed to some other retread. I suspect that Suppan is a stopgap for the Cards until Penny gets healthy or the make some sort of trade.

[Thurston Fluff]

Injuries to Lohse and Penny are probably the biggest reason that the Cards needed to sign Suppan. They tried some of their AAA guys, and they didn't seem to work out. Suppan has a good history in StL., so it makes some degree of sense to sign him as opposed to some other retread. I suspect that Suppan is a stopgap for the Cards until Penny gets healthy or the make some sort of trade.

 

Of course it is. I used that as an example to show how he negated his own argument. They are the ones who are supposed to be the guru's that our team should be hiring because they did something with our castoff yet our guys did something with one of their castoffs. So the idea that this should be some sort of warning sign about our staff's ability is just false reasoning.

 

I really don't see Narveson as a good starter either... I am concerned that he won't be able to get RH batters out consistently.

 

Which is one hand less of a concern than Suppan was. I agree on Narveson. I'm glad we get to audition him in a season where only the most optimistic thought we could contend. It'll be good to see what an entire year's worth of information shows us before they have to decide on next year's staff.

[RockCoCougars]

Right now, most if not all theories recently posited in this thread are possible:

 

Pulled before impending implosion

Ran himself tired on basepath

Soup is fixed/Duncan is a genius saint/Everyone in the Brewers' organization sucks

Wait to see how he pitches against a team having a better season than the 2010 Mariners

I'll vote for the first option. It's like the term, "quit while you're ahead" at the casino. You may have some short term success and win some money, but in the end the house has the advantage and you will likely lose everything you won and more. In this case, house edge= mlb batter edge vs. Suppan. You can't throw 86 MPH straight as a string without getting knocked around. Like I said, I'll give him credit for getting through the lineup twice, but I'll wait and see how he fares a few starts against a stronger offense that's seen his 'stuff' recently before I admit that I'm wrong.

 

Ironically, it probably works in the Brewers' favor if Soup starts strong (no I haven't given up on the season 8 games out in mid-June). A strong start will likely cause the Cardnals to keep him around longer, where if he got knocked around badly they would cut and run. If nothing else Soup is durable (when 'injuries' are not manufactured). If other Cardnal pitchers have injury problems, he could get the ball every fifth day for the rest of the season- this is only good for the Brewers. Maybe Melvin keeping Suppan around was a stroke of genius. He waited for the Cardnals to get thin in the pitching ranks, and released him as a type of Trojan horse.

[brewers19]

Two starts just isn't enough information.

Normally, yes. But if a sample size of one start is apparently enough proof for some people that Melvin was a fool for cutting Suppan, then a sample size of two starts should be equally (if not doubly so) capable of getting an opposing point across. When in Rome...

[BREWCREW5]

I would expect Suppan to be better under Duncan. Suppan pitched his best under him and he is playing for a team that has nice defense and a nice offense. Suppan is a great person. I wish him no hard feelings. Do I wish that he would have been at least decent as a Brewer? Absolutely.

 

Duncan is a great coach. He knows Suppan. I am certain that he probably told the Cards GM that he could fix him/make him serviceable.

[geddymd73]

According to 1250 WSSP, apparently as soon as Suppan got to St Louis they immediately told him

he needs to stand up taller and move his hands closer to his chin. And

apparently Peterson is a big hands guy and was messing with the

pitchers hand placements in training camp. They said that Peterson moved

Suppans hands lower.

 

Simply doesn't look good for Peterson. Its rare to hear specifics on how we screwed up a pitcher after we released him.

[derflotr]

And he pitched marginally well against a putrid offense for 4 innings. Huge knock on Peterson, right.

[TooLiveBrew]

Clearly Peterson was affecting Soup from a distance prior to his arrival, as well.