How much longer for Jeff Suppan? -- Latest: Suppan signs with STL, starts 6/15

[Invader3K]

All right, since everyone is talking about this anyway, we may as well have a thread about it. Let's try to keep conversation productive and not rehash stuff over and over again.

 

I think this article from Tom Oates summarizes the situation pretty well:

By now, it is a given that the four-year, $42 million contract

the Brewers gave him in 2007 was a colossal failure. However, it

wasn't until midway through last season, Suppan's third with the

Brewers, that he stopped getting hitters out. He was 2-8 after June

12 and pitched his way out of the rotation after only two starts

this season.

 

The reason Suppan is still around is painfully obvious to all:

The Brewers are unwilling to eat his $12.5 million salary for this

season.

 

That could be because they can't afford it or because owner Mark

Attanasio has some sort of attachment to Suppan, his first major

acquisition. Whatever the reason, Suppan is producing little on the

field - Macha will have to think twice about using him in any

meaningful situation again - and he's taking up critical roster

space on a team that has a depleted bullpen and a short bench.

 

Given the way they booed Suppan Sunday, Brewers fans have

clearly seen enough of him. One suspects that Macha has too, though

he can't say it publicly.

 

"There's going to be situations pop up when you have that last

guy in the bullpen and he's going to have to do it," Macha

said.

 

The manager said he had no problem bringing Suppan into a 2-2

game because he had a track record of success against most of the

Mets he faced.

 

"I had confidence bringing him in," Macha said. "He just didn't

make his pitches. ... All the matchups were in his favor. After

(Saturday) night, I'm hoping I get two innings out of Jeff. He

should feel confident coming in because he's got a history of

getting those guys out."

 

In a way, that makes it worse. If Suppan can no longer get guys

out that he once owned, he has probably reached the end of his

usefulness to the Brewers. Hey, it's not the first time a pitcher's

effectiveness ran out before his contract did.

[craigharmann]

That makes all the points...including the junk I expected Macha to say.....but, as Oates points out, if he can't get the guys out that he previously was able to consistently get out, that raises the question of why is he here?

[jwill535]

My answer to the response of "well they dont want to eat the 12.5 mil and would like to get something in return" is that they arent getting anything from him now, and in fact is hurting the team due to his performance. That money is spent and gone, just let him go and put another player on the bench.

[logan82]

It is actually cheaper to keep him right now. Changing out Suppan for a different pitcher isn't likely to improve us enough to make much difference in the loss column so it isn't like we will be losing out on much revenue because fans quit coming to the park.

Let's try to keep conversation productive and not rehash stuff over and

over again.

As much as this topic has already been discussed, I am not sure that is possible.

[JonnyLungs]

If we dump Suppan, we lose very valuable depth that this team has worked hard to acquire in the pitching department.

[JonnyLungs]

It is actually cheaper to keep him right now. Changing out Suppan for a different pitcher isn't likely to improve us enough to make much difference in the loss column so it isn't like we will be losing out on much revenue because fans quit coming to the park.

But we are losing out on the opportunity to find a guy that might be able to help us in the future. When a guy clearly has no future with the team and is this bad, what is the point? A guy like Kameron Loe might not be any better than Suppan but why not find out?

[Beast Light]

The reason Suppan is still around is painfully obvious to all: The Brewers are unwilling to eat his $12.5 million salary for this season.

I've never understood this argument. The Brewers are already "eating" his salary.

 

If the team is willing to spend money on guys to upgrade certain aspects of the team, spending an attional $500k (not exactly sure what the minimum is) to replace Suppan should be a no brainer.

 

[Beast Light]

It is actually cheaper to keep him right now. Changing out Suppan for a different pitcher isn't likely to improve us enough to make much difference in the loss column so it isn't like we will be losing out on much revenue because fans quit coming to the park.

But we are losing out on the opportunity to find a guy that might be able to help us in the future. When a guy clearly has no future with the team and is this bad, what is the point? A guy like Kameron Loe might not be any better than Suppan but why not find out?

I would also like to point out that fans often times care about more than a win/loss record. If my team is losing but makings smart moves and trying to get better, I can tolerate that. If my team is losing and continues to trot guys like Suppan out to the mound and expects me to believe that they are making an honest effort to win, it makes me angry.

 

[1992casey]

By now, it is a given that the four-year, $42 million contract

the Brewers gave him in 2007 was a colossal failure. However, it

wasn't until midway through last season, Suppan's third with the

Brewers, that he stopped getting hitters out. He was 2-8 after June

12 and pitched his way out of the rotation after only two starts

this season.

 

"Colossal" probably isn't the right word. If this were a "colossal" failure, Jeff would have stopped getting hitters out during his first season in Milwaukee. I'd leave it at "bad contract." Otherwise, what would you call the Hammonds contract? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

Getting to the question at hand, I think Jeff will be out as soon as another move crowds him off the roster. The Brewers are running out of guys to cut and/or stash on the 60-day disabled list. Jeff's turn will be coming. Maybe it'll happen as soon as when Gamel is activated.

[Bernie Crewer]

I do not post much, but read often. To me yesterday's game was extremely disappointing. Suppan's stat's are absolutely horrific. The thing is the Brewers rely upon their fans filling the ballpark to be able to pay players what Suppan is making. Much of Brewer Nation was shocked and disappointed with Hoffman's failures earlier, but the ship was steadied with Axford and Braddock coming up and blowing smoke by guys...then we get a rejuvenated Corey Hart and things are starting to look good again...and then comes the abyss that is Suppan. He's as classy as they come, but I would argue his performance yesterday will keep fans from coming to MP...unless something is done swiftly. It seems the Kameron Loe deadline would be the appropriate time. Otherwise he needs to accept an assignment to AAA a la Dave Bush, etc. Not sure if that's going to happen, but this Suppan story has come to a head and the Crew needs to address it.

[hawing]

I would also like to point out that fans often times care about more than a win/loss record. If my team is losing but makings smart moves and trying to get better, I can tolerate that. If my team is losing and continues to trot guys like Suppan out to the mound and expects me to believe that they are making an honest effort to win, it makes me angry.

This ties in, I think, with the game comments my 70-year-old mother emailed to me this morning:

 

When they put Suppan in, I thought of two things - they didn't care about this game.....or else they wanted rock solid proof that he

could no longer help the team. And I guess he proved that.

As I stated in Sunday's IGT, I've reached the point where I would rather see the Brewers get nothing out of Jeff than the negative value they are currently getting by his continuing to appear in games. I can accept Sunday's results (despite sitting through them in person in the heat) if that game proves to be Suppan's last stand.

[PeaveyFury]

I said a few weeks ago that Suppan would have to fail in his new role as a reliever before they'd move on from him. I think we're clearly at that point now, so I really don't see Suppan here much longer. If they don't want to outright DFA him, I could see him going on the 'disabled list' for the remainder of the year, with Suppan staying with the team as more of a mentor/motivator. I think his character is about all he offers to us at this point, sadly.

[BrewCrewForever]

When Gamel, Riske, or Hawkins have to be activated I hope they finally DFA him or like Peavey said, put him on the DL with some kind of "injury". So I would say within a month or so Suppan should be gone. At least I hope.

 

I was listening to the game on the radio yesterday coming home from playing golf and my God, those were some of the loudest boo's I ever heard over the air on the radio. It was so loud. Clearly Brewers fans are done seeing him pitch and give up multiple hits and runs.

[joepepsi]

Getting to the question at hand, I think Jeff will be out as soon as another move crowds him off the roster. The Brewers are running out of guys to cut and/or stash on the 60-day disabled list. Jeff's turn will be coming. Maybe it'll happen as soon as when Gamel is activated.

I agree this is what will happen. Stern will go when Edmonds or Gerut comes back. When either the other one or Davis is ready, something will have to give. If Braddock goes down before Suppan then you know the team doesn't care much about winning this year, nor the future.

 

I don't see how Suppan makes it through June.

[Buckylovesbeer]

Adding to what BrewCrew said, as I watched the game on TV yesterday, I saw something I had never seen in a major league game. When Suppan started to falter, the pitching coach visted the mound. The boos stopped, and in fact, there was a loud cheer as the pitching coach walked out.

 

Never, ever seen a mound visit cheered.

 

When Soup started pitching again, the boos started. It is pretty sad.

[NeedMoreFans]

Adding to what BrewCrew said, as I watched the game on TV yesterday, I saw something I had never seen in a major league game. When Suppan started to falter, the pitching coach visted the mound. The boos stopped, and in fact, there was a loud cheer as the pitching coach walked out.

I heard the same thing when I was listening to the radio, and thought a pitching change was going to be made when people started cheering so loudly.

 

What I want to know is how is keeping him on the roster helping the team? As has been well discussed so far, we are probably only keeping him because of his salary. That money is gone anyways. If cutting him and eating his salary means the team does better, then do it.

[Ennder]

When we still have guys like Estrada on the roster getting rid of Suppan isn't going to do much. The team needs to find a number of better options to make this worth worrying about.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

Peavey and BrewCrew are spot on. To date, Soup really hasn't bothered me. He's been pitching in a mop up role and has sopped up some useless innings saving an overworked bullpen. Unfortunately there have been too many games for the Brewers where they've needed that this year. At some point you run out of arms and need to throw him into a higher leverage situation like yesterday. I think everyone knew what was coming. Now that he has failed and several players are about to come back, the pressure to take that spot will likely mean the end of the road.

 

The booing was sad, but understandable. It's one thing to fail, it's another to get paid a boatload to do it. Fans get emotional about these things. I don't really blame Soup. He hasn't been dogging it, he's just hit the end of the road before his contract did.

 

I'm not as convinced that salary was the only reason he's been kept around, but I'm sure it bought him some rope. I think they really thought he might turn it around, and I will give them credit for the quick hook on his starting spot. It's not like the options are that great for replacing him. Estrada hasn't exactly looked like a world beater either after the Reds game and I'm skeptical on Loe. With Vargas gone and Soup close, anyone expecting those last spots to be big upgrades may be disappointed. We still have Hoffman to turn around too...very curious that he didn't come in earlier yesterday as well.

[tigerbrew]

The umpire was generous with Suppan in yesterday's game. He had given Suppan several outside pitches off the plate that strikeout a couple of batters or things would have been a lot worse for Suppan. Suppan's pitches were mostly in the low 80s yesterday.

 

I don't get what's wrong with guys like Estrada on the roster? He has decent stuff similar to Carlos V's and is not the worst pitcher in the staff. He has only pitched 10.1 innings so far with 12 Ks and 11 hits, too soon to judge why not give him more time and see how he does.

[Invader3K]

When we still have guys like Estrada on the roster getting rid of Suppan isn't going to do much. The team needs to find a number of better options to make this worth worrying about.

I really don't agree with this. At this point, Suppan is clearly hurting the team much more than he is helping (if he has really helped any at all this year). Estrada is a better option than Suppan. I would wager that Tim Dillard, Kameron Loe, or possibly even a couple other AAA/AA guys are better options than Soup at this point. Further, after yesterday, his psyche is probably pretty well shot to pieces. There really is no positive from leaving Suppan on the team at this point. There is no name value, he is not a draw. He may be a "nice guy" in the the community and in the clubhouse, but Bill Hall probably was too and the team is paying him to play for the Red Sox this year. I'm guessing the other relievers are wondering why he keeps getting chances to fail, and the offense probably shudders when he comes in.

 

The Suppan signing was a big move for the franchise at the time, and for the first two seasons of his contract it worked out all right. But by now there is no point to keeping him around. It's not like they're going to exercise his option for next season. We tried him as a reliever (which I was in favor of), and it hasn't worked out. Just cut your losses and move on.

[Funketown]

When we still have guys like Estrada on the roster getting rid of Suppan isn't going to do much. The team needs to find a number of better options to make this worth worrying about.

Ennder, I'm just curious about why you're so bearish on Estrada. I'm pretty confident he can be a 4.75 - 5.00 FIP guy as a spot starter, based on his past success in the minors and decent peripherals in the majors. I just don't see how Suppan is a better option at this point.

[Ennder]

So far in the majors Estrada is a flyball pitcher with poor control, that just isn't the skillset I'm excited about and in general I'm worried about a guy who is still in AAA at age 26. I'm not saying Estrada is worse or better than Suppan, I'm saying that we need to find real players to replace Suppan. If Estrada is the best we can do to replace him I just don't think we are going to upgrade that roster spot much.

[trwi7]

Even if Estrada is worse than Suppan I'd rather keep him and see what we have. Can he be a #4 or #5 starter in the future? Can he be a cheap bullpen arm in the future? Let's find out now, while we're not good. No use keeping Suppan since he's terrible and won't be here past this year.

[Funketown]

So far in the majors Estrada is a flyball pitcher with poor control, that just isn't the skillset I'm excited about and in general I'm worried about a guy who is still in AAA at age 26. I'm not saying Estrada is worse or better than Suppan, I'm saying that we need to find real players to replace Suppan. If Estrada is the best we can do to replace him I just don't think we are going to upgrade that roster spot much.

I hadn't realized his batted ball splits were so bad in the minors (.83 GB/FB). However, as a spot starter or long man, I think Estrada will prove to be a bit more tolerable than Soup.

 

I might be biased because I'm so sick of this whole Suppan debacle, but I'm hoping the Brewers make the decision to cut ties and see what some of these younger guys can do. I'm not worried about service time, as I really don't think either of Estrada or Loe will prove to be very valuable.

[sheethead]

With Brewers:

 

29-36 (.446); 5.04 ERA; 108 games; 97 starts; 1 complete game; 1.59 WHIP; 4.7 K/9; 1.37 K/BB

 

For $42M, I have no problem with Oates calling this contract a colossal failure.