Hart/Fielder thinking outside the box a bit.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Normally, I'm one to chide others for suggesting we play guys out of position, and I know I've used the line on this very forum "these guys aren't strat o matic cards, you can't just stick them wherever you'd like on the field"

 

But, something I've been thinking about this year, especially as Hart seems to be not only hitting the ball better, but he's been seeing it better as well, at least so far, as evidenced by his early season walk totals is this.........

 

If the Brewers get put in a position where trading Prince, even as early as this deadline, is the best move going forward, could/should the Crew throw Hart in at first base? He's played there before (albeit quite a while ago), and we have Braun, Gomez, Gerut, and Edmonds (if/when healthy) to split time in the outfield. Gerut's not getting enough playing time as it is when everyone else is healthy, and it'd make it easier than finding another 1B option via trade or promotion. With his height, he's ideal for the position, and it's really awful at times watching him play RF. I know he made a pair of nice catches last night, but overall, he's subpar in RF.

 

Thoughts.

[BrewCrewForever]

I think if they trade Prince, they should trade Hart as well. Especially the way he has been playing, his value might be increased a little with this hot streak he is on.

 

I think Lawrie, Gamel or Cain may be in RF as soon as 2011 anyway.

[trwi7]

Hart vs righties: .218/.299/.423/.722. I'd rather we try to trade him than play him every day, because with those numbers against righties, he's platoon player.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Hart vs righties: .218/.299/.423/.722. I'd rather we try to trade him than play him every day, because with those numbers against righties, he's platoon player.

I can see the merits of trading him, given that his value is likely to be higher than it's likely going to be at any point moving forward.

[Funketown]

I'd rather trade Hart this season. As trwi pointed out, he still hasn't been great against righties, and with how productive he would be over the course of an MLB season, I don't think he'd be very valuable at first.

 

If (when) Fielder leaves, under the condition that Gamel shows competence and health over the course of the season, I like the idea of moving McGehee over to first and letting Gamel stick at third. I will admit that I was skeptical about McGehee's performance this year, but at this point I think he may very well be a .300/.360/.490/.850 hitter, and I think I'm still being conservative with that mark, given how he has killed the ball over the course of the last two seasons.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I'd rather trade Hart this season. As trwi pointed out, he still hasn't been great against righties, and with how productive he would be over the course of an MLB season, I don't think he'd be very valuable at first.

 

If (when) Fielder leaves, under the condition that Gamel shows competence and health over the course of the season, I like the idea of moving McGehee over to first and letting Gamel stick at third. I will admit that I was skeptical about McGehee's performance this year, but at this point I think he may very well be a .300/.360/.490/.850 hitter, and I think I'm still being conservative with that mark, given how he has killed the ball over the course of the last two seasons.

My initial post was basically a "for the rest of this year" idea. I don't think Hart's a long term first baseman.

 

McGehee has excellent splits. I've been barking for a while that the lineup should be going Weeks - Braun - Fielder - McGehee. But I don't think I'm the *only* one saying that either.

[Funketown]

My initial post was basically a "for the rest of this year" idea. I don't think Hart's a long term first baseman.

 

McGehee has excellent splits. I've been barking for a while that the lineup should be going Weeks - Braun - Fielder - McGehee. But I don't think I'm the *only* one saying that either.

It would be interesting to see what that lineup would be able to do. If Hart continues to hit, putting him in the five hole behind those guys might not be a bad idea.

[DuWayne Steurer]

My initial post was basically a "for the rest of this year" idea. I don't think Hart's a long term first baseman.

 

McGehee has excellent splits. I've been barking for a while that the lineup should be going Weeks - Braun - Fielder - McGehee. But I don't think I'm the *only* one saying that either.

It would be interesting to see what that lineup would be able to do. If Hart continues to hit, putting him in the five hole behind those guys might not be a bad idea.

They're the 4 best OBP guys in the order (or should be, generally speaking). They should be getting the most at bats. I never can understand MLB managers obsession with putting a punch and judy slap hitter with no OBP skills in the 2 hole because they "make good contact" etc, etc, etc. It's just like putting .295 OBP guys in the leadoff spot "because they're fast". Ignorant at best, and plain stupid at worst.

[logan82]

.220 .303 .390 .693 against LHP.

.235 .316 .346 .662 against RHP

Maybe these guys should be platooned as well. All but the top guys in the league have really ugly splits. Most players would benefit from being platooned.

[DuWayne Steurer]

.220 .303 .390 .693 against LHP.

.235 .316 .346 .662 against RHP

Maybe these guys should be platooned as well. All but the top guys in the league have really ugly splits. Most players would benefit from being platooned.

Weeks........I'm not sure who the 2nd guy is. Honestly, a 430+ SLG from Hart vs. righties isn't all that bad. Be nice if the OBP was a shade closer to .350 than .250 though. (Actually, after today, it should go up a touch, as should the SLG.)

[adambr2]

1st guy is Prince.

[Buckylovesbeer]

Lawrie has not really killed pitching in the minors.....hitting around .253 as a 2nd baseman. I doubt he is an option in RF. Gamel is always an option, if somebody can motivate him and he can stay healthy. I doubt he is going to get a look anytime soon at 3b, thats for sure.

 

The next month is going to be key in the Prince situation. If they cannot win, it might be a major sell-off of several guys. Hart might be an option, however, he could also gain a large amount of trade value. Who knows what Melvin has up his sleeve at this point.

[endaround]

Lawrie is an option for RF he's just liekly 2 years away still. I just don't see teh value of trading Fielder until the offseason. There just aren't that many teams out there right now who need a 1B but come the offseason there will be. For example both Chicago teams are set at 1B right now but will have an opening come November.

[joepepsi]

Well, now Hart's .264/355/434 against lefties. I don't know if Cain or Lawrie are capable yet of putting up those numbers overall in the majors.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Lawrie has not really killed pitching in the minors.....hitting around .253 as a 2nd baseman. I doubt he is an option in RF.

He's also a 20 year old in AA. Give him some time.

[TooLiveBrew]

That's not his line v. LHP, joepepsi, it's his line "vs LH Starter". I have no idea why Baseball-Reference made that part of the splits page so akward, but here's the explanation of "vs LH/RH Starter":

vs Starter batting splits are for the entire game when the starter was LH or RH. These splits include any subsequent PA's against a reliever regardless of their throwing hand. These splits are a proxy for platoon splits for seasons we lack play-by-play data. from GL team pitching splits indicate how batters did against the team and use the batter's overall batting handedness for this split.

Hart's splits as of today are

 

v. RH: .220/.297/.451/.748

 

v. LH: .349/.420/.744/1.164

[FVBrewerFan]

I agree. I don't think either Lawrie or Cain are at the point where they should be penciled into the line-up for the 2011 season or any season. Moving Hart to 1B would create a production problem in the OF. Other than Braun and Gomez, who else would you want playing out there for a significant amount of time? Edmunds? He can't. Gerut? He shouldn't.

 

If Fielder is dealt during the season (which I don't think is very likely) the most likely scenerio would be Gamel at 1B, or Gamel at 3B and move McGehee to 1B.

[joepepsi]

MY bad, TLB. Thanks for catching that. The obp stinks vs. righties, but his slugging makes up for it a little. A .748 OPS is not terrible.It suggests more of a "soft" platoon than sitting him against every righty.

[strawbossisevil]

Lawrie is an option for RF he's just liekly 2 years away still. I just don't see teh value of trading Fielder until the offseason. There just aren't that many teams out there right now who need a 1B but come the offseason there will be. For example both Chicago teams are set at 1B right now but will have an opening come November.

If you open up the possibility of him being a DH, it opens up a bunch more options.

Teams that could currently use a DH, a 1B, or both this season and going into next season (this is without looking at the farmsystems, so perhaps that could rule some of these out):

NY Yankees

Tampa Bay

Toronto

Chi Whitesox

LA Angels

Seattle

Atlanta

Pittsburgh

LA Dodgers

San Francisco

 

[lcbj68c]

I like the list, minus Pittsburg. If the goal is rebuilding there is no reason to spend $21M or so in the next 18mos for Fielder. If it's a long term plan, then they might as just wait and get him when he becomes a free agent and therefore not lose any depth by trading for him.

[strawbossisevil]

Right, I hesitated in adding them to the list because it wouldn't happen for a variety of reasons (being in the same division being another big reason why it wouldn't happen).

 

My point was though, there are plenty of teams out there even now that would love to have Fielder on their team already this season, and most definitely going forward. Also, the majority of the teams on that list have the financial capacity of signing Fielder to a long term deal (with the exceptions being Tampa Bay and Pittsburgh).

 

We don't need to wait so that the Chicago Cubs come into the picture, it isn't in our team's best interest for Fielder to end up in the North Side to begin with.

[lcbj68c]

As I've discussed before. The Rays do not really have a financial burden when it comes to Fielder. I like the Rays in that list. In 2013, Niemann, Sonnastine, Garza will still be arbitration eligible. Not to mention, Hellickson and Barnese, Jennings, Beckham, etc who aren't even at the show yet. Pena, Crawford, Soriano, Burrell leaving saves $36M annually off of a payroll that is at $76M before then. Adding Fielder at $6M for half of this year and $15M for his final arbitration year probably wouldn't hurt too badly. The Rays attendance is at 1.7M irregardless of their successes (see 2007-2010), so it's not like their monies are attendance dependent when the lose Crawford and Pena. Jennings, Beckham, and Fielder could replaced the same excitement level for fans as does Pena and Crawford. The numbers that Shields, Price, Garza, will be at in 2012 are absolutely sick. Prince Fielder would not be a financial burden on the Rays.