The trade value of Prince Fielder (part 1)

[1e Corbeau]

Edit: on second thought, this is a thread about "The trade value of Prince Fielder," not Gomez's defense, so I'll kill my comment.

[Never Outhustled]

After last nights dreadful defensive performance, I think Gomez put the nail in his coffin. I'm guessing Cain gets the start tonight, and its Gomez that gets sent down when they activate Yo.

X, I'm guessing you see this as a pattern, rather than a single instance that sticks in the mind.

 

Gomez did hold a runner on third, due to respect for his cannon on a FB that would have scored against Edmonds or even Cam, IMO. So, his bobble might have given up a run in a vacuum, but that respect for his arm saved a run in a vacuum. [The run did score from third eventually, though through a single, something not directly effected by Gomez, just as the runner on second who scored on his bobble wasn't placed there by Gomez.]

 

That's a push, to me, which might not be "average," though.

 

Lets not forget that he missed a cutoffman by 20 feet on a play they should have had an excellent chance of getting the runner at the plate. Cannon arms don't help if the fielder has a baseball IQ of a little leaguer.

 

As for the flyball where the runner held at 3rd, it was a shallow flyball, the runners holds for any CF not named Pierre.

[paulmolitor4]

X ellence,

 

This is total B.S! Is every thread on this board going to turn into you railing against Gomez? We get it. You don't like him. I would like to be able to read some of these threads without having to sift through your diatribes about Gomez's "terrible" defense. Now drop it! Please!

[Never Outhustled]

X ellence,

 

This is total B.S! Is every thread on this board going to turn into you railing against Gomez? We get it. You don't like him. I would like to be able to read some of these threads without having to sift through your diatribes about Gomez's "terrible" defense. Now drop it! Please!

 

If you have something to say about Fielder, we're waiting, no one is stopping you. And you can drop the B.S. about me saying his defense is "terrible" or provide a quote to that, because I've never said that.

 

There hasn't been any Fielder news, and I think that's a big mistake on Tampa's part. He's perfect for them in every way. He would boost their offense, he wouldn't hurt their defense as a DH, and he would help their pathetic attendance. I guess they're content watching the playoffs and losing money.

[brains and braun]

X ellence, it's not like pm doesn't have a legitimate point about you hijacking this thread. He's not the only one who doesn't want to read about Carlos Gomez' defense in every thread.

I do agree with you that Fielder would be great as a DH down there, and would help the team in the ways that you've mentioned. On the other hand, he would be costly in terms of prospects and money, and TB is reportedly interested in cutting payroll. So, I don't think we can call them foolish for not pursuing Fielder. In fact, I wish the Brewers would take a cue from how they've built a team.

[PrinceEatMeat]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/98678964.html

 

Article from TH about the possibility of Fielder being dealt. Thought this was an interesting tidbit.

 

"And, despite all the rumors flying around, I have it on good authority that Melvin has not received one legitimate offer thus far for either Fielder or Hart. Let's see if that changes over the next two weeks."

[dadofandrew]

From what we've seen, it's easy to say Doug asks for what he wants, and no one has bit yet.

[igor67]

I think we all know that "a legitimate offer" in Melvin speak = the offer he will accept and finish the trade. We've seen that dodge far too often right before a trade is finally consummated to believe that it has substantial meaning.

 

Based on their current roster, and the desire for experience I think a package of Fielder and Bush makes a lot of sense. You get a veteran in that 5th starter spot this late in the season (GMs invariably seem to like that) and a massive upgrade in DH offense. They get better for next year as well, and these players definitely help them make a push for the World series this year.

 

Detroit looks like they could use a similar package, though upgrading at DH from Damon isn't quite as dramatic. I'd guess we'd probably take Damon back to even out the salaries for this year.

 

The Angels could also use a real 1st/DH as well, though they seem to have been curiously quite in all these discussions despite being competitive and in need of more offense.

[dadofandrew]

ANA has very few prospects to deal. Everyone asks for uber-prospect Mike Trout, and he's probably untouchable.

[Rhett16]

I wonder if the Brewers could pull off something like Fielder/Edmonds/Bush for Wade Davis and BJ Upton. It may be safe to say Upton has worn out his welcome in Tampa Bay.

[brains and braun]

What would TB want with Bush? He's more expensive and worse than what they already have.

[nate82]

I wonder if the Brewers could pull off something like Fielder/Edmonds/Bush for Wade Davis and BJ Upton. It may be safe to say Upton has worn out his welcome in Tampa Bay.

Bush and Edmonds make no sense for the Rays. Why would the Rays replace Upton with Edmonds? Gomez would make more sense and Davis is not enough for Fielder. If the Rays are not interested in trading Hellickson then I would take Davis but Colome/Moore would also have to be in the deal. A trade of Fielder and Gomez for Davis, Colome, and Upton would be fine. Upton and Gomez would be just a swap with Fielder returning Davis and Colome. That would give the Brewers a future #1 or ace in Colome and a #2 or a solid #3 type pitcher in Davis. The Brewers would probably have to pay all of Fielder's salary this year and a portion of it next year the more the Brewers pay of Fielder's salary for next year the bigger the return the Brewers could get from the Rays.

 

As for the Angels I think McGehee matches up better for them than Prince does. McGehee is more along the style of play that the Angels play and I don't see the Angels really giving up any of their top talent to acquire anyone that would require some top talent and Trout is untouchable the Angels have said that he is not available though that just may well be GM talk.

[Never Outhustled]

Bush and Edmonds make no sense for the Rays. Why would the Rays replace Upton with Edmonds? Gomez would make more sense and Davis is not enough for Fielder.

Gomez doesn't fit the Rays because:

1. He's struggling, why would a contender want to add a replacement level player?

2. They want to deal Upton to open a spot for top CF prospect Desmond Jennings.

 

Edmonds would fit them well, to give them a veteran backup CF who could shield Jennings from tough RH pitchers, and could give them depth in the corner OF.

 

I agree that Bush doesn't fit Tampa, but I think Riske would help them. The return for Fielder, Riske, and Edmonds should be substantial, but Tampa has the minor league pitching depth to do it.

[uwisfan]

As for the Angels I think McGehee matches up better for them than Prince does. McGehee is more along the style of play that the Angels play and I don't see the Angels really giving up any of their top talent to acquire anyone that would require some top talent and Trout is untouchable the Angels have said that he is not available though that just may well be GM talk.

Who is talking McGehee? Why would the Brewers trade someone cheap and proven with several years of control left? I think he's among the Brewers least tradable players right now.

 

Gallardo

Braun

Lucroy

Escobar

Axford

McGehee

Braddock

Loe (cant recall his contract)

..I'd be shocked if the Brewers moved on any of the above players in the next 2 years.

[Rhett16]

In my suggestion above, I was thinking along the lines of Davis not being enough for Fielder, but Davis and Upton being too much for him. So if we sent along 2 players who could help the Rays out this year, maybe that would even things out a bit. (Bush stepping in to their rotation if they don't bring Hellickson up for whatever reason or if another pitcher gets hurt, and Edmonds filling in in center as well as being a decent lefty batter off the bunch) Bush's stats aren't as awful as a lot of people assume they are. This all assumes the Rays really decide to go for it this year as well.

[igor67]

I think you have to seriosuly look at trading Casey as a retooling strategy precisely because he is young and cheap. A lot of teams place extra value on that, but we have a couple of options to get potentially similar production in a resurgent Green and Gamel. At the same time I will point out he's giving solid offensive production, but has very limited range and that's an area for improvement. Maybe there's not the value out there, but I bet there is since he slots easily into any budget and you have control.

[Never Outhustled]

Who is talking McGehee? Why would the Brewers trade someone cheap and proven with several years of control left? I think he's among the Brewers least tradable players right now.

He's tradable because he is a poor defender and we have a possible replacement in Mat Gamel. McGehee is fairly pedestrian, but like you said, has value because he's cheap and will have 4 years of control after this year. A team might also be interested in him as a 2B.

[brewmann04]

I think the offers will start by this weekend and Melvin will have to try and fet the best offer

[nate82]

Who is talking McGehee? Why would the Brewers trade someone cheap and proven with several years of control left? I think he's among the Brewers least tradable players right now.

I didn't say to trade McGehee re read what I wrote. McGehee would be more of a fit for the Angels than Fielder would be. That doesn't mean McGehee would be traded or is being suggested to be traded.

[TheCrew]

I'd much rather stick with McGehee at this point - what happens if Gamel flames out? He's 25 in a week and he is not exactly hitting lights out in the minors and I'm not sure where his defense ranks, but I'm guessing he isn't a plus defender. Throw that in with the fact that he had a higher k% than anyone else in the majors last season with an equal number of at bats and I'm really starting to sour on Gamel.......

[TooLiveBrew]

http://brewersfandemonium...Gamel-.html#reply-638804

 

Gamel's line adjusted for park and luck, with requisite caveats about the reliability of MiLB batted-ball classification: .321/.403/.455. He's got a 25% line-drive rate. I think he's fine.

Figured I'd post this so kow doesn't have to again

[Never Outhustled]

http://brewersfandemonium...Gamel-.html#reply-638804

 

Gamel's line adjusted for park and luck, with requisite caveats about the reliability of MiLB batted-ball classification: .321/.403/.455. He's got a 25% line-drive rate. I think he's fine.

Figured I'd post this so kow doesn't have to again

 

Since Kow posted that Gamel has gone 3-6 with a 2B, a HR, and 2 walks. Hopefully he gets hot and erases any doubt around him.

[MNBrew]

Who is talking McGehee? Why would the Brewers trade someone cheap and proven with several years of control left? I think he's among the Brewers least tradable players right now.

He's tradable because he is a poor defender and we have a possible replacement in Mat Gamel. McGehee is fairly pedestrian, but like you said, has value because he's cheap and will have 4 years of control after this year. A team might also be interested in him as a 2B.

Um, Mat Gamel may well be a worse-fielding 3B than Ryan Braun was. McGehee may not remind anyone of Brooks Robinson EXCEPT in comparison to Mat Gamel.

 

(p.s. I like Gamel a lot overall, though, and hope he'll get himself on track so we have a viable 1B option if/when Prince gets traded.)

[trwi7]

Gamel has much better range than McGehee, but doesn't make the best throws. I'll take the range and live with the throwing errors.

[MNBrew]

That's the exact sort of analysis we always used to describe Jose Valentin: gets to so many balls, but throws it all over creation.

 

....And Valentin's error count was always high enough that Jose Hernandez or Royce Clayton or Counsell or whoever followed him was a welcome relief because, even if he didn't get to as many balls, he tended to make the plays on the ones he did get to. Sorry, but I'll take that any day. McGehee may not be Jeff Cirillo, but he's not a lumbering idiot over at 3B, either (or the 3B version of what everyone accused Ray Durham of being at 2B at the end of '08).

 

AND, since Gamel has yet to have any sustained success at the plate in the bigs, saying he has much better range as the defining point in an assertion that he's overall a better defender (really, is he? sorry, the metrics for fielding have improved from 15-20 years ago, but metrics don't fully do fielding justice because there's still such an "ought to" factor, which is inherently subjective, no matter how much they've tried to remove subjectivity from fielding metrics . . . but that's a whole 'nother discussion) when the other faults are so obvious just doesn't hold water for me.