The trade value of Prince Fielder (part 1)

[PilprinBuddha]

I agree that power is the main component for 1b, but with our defensive woes, I would have to believe that a betetr defensive 1b would be a benefit.

[nate82]

I agree that power is the main component for 1b, but with our defensive woes, I would have to believe that a betetr defensive 1b would be a benefit.

It would help but not all that much.

 

Back to the value of Prince I definitely see the Brewers trading Prince in the off season though. It looks as though Dunn may not be coming back with the Nationals next year so the Nationals maybe a possible trading partner though I'm not sure the Nationals really have the pitching the Brewers would be looking for. If Jordan Zimmermann didn't have TJ surgery then I believe he would have been a target for the Brewers in a trade with the Nationals. Right now I am not sure though if the Nationals would be a good fit prospects wise.

 

It might be down to the Yankees, Red Sox, and the Giants in the off season as trading partners in a Fielder trade. I don't really see anyone that I like prospect wise from the Yankees and I am not sure the Red Sox will be willing to give up the prospects needed to make a Fielder trade with them work the same goes with the Giants.

[endaround]

Both Chicago teams will be looking for a 1B and so should the Dodgers. The Mariners might be looking to make a push as well and use Fielder as a DH for one year. I really doubt the Yankees can afford to have a full time DH with the mid 30s ARod and Jeter and the late 30s Posada all needing rest during the season.

[nate82]

Both Chicago teams will be looking for a 1B and so should the Dodgers. The Mariners might be looking to make a push as well and use Fielder as a DH for one year. I really doubt the Yankees can afford to have a full time DH with the mid 30s ARod and Jeter and the late 30s Posada all needing rest during the season.

The Dodgers may still be in limbo in terms of their financial situation but Manny does come off the books after this year so that could be conceivable but I don't see the Dodgers trading for Fielder and having Loney on the team so either Loney is coming to Milwaukee or is traded to another team before that happens. I don't think Melvin trades Fielder to the Cubs though I think Fielder to the White Sox does make some sense though. The Mariners are intriguing but they may need to add some more pitching along with the bats that they need to compete in the AL West though that division isn't really all that good.

[Bnowell4evr]

Could a trade of Prince Fielder and Dave Bush to the White Sox for Daniel Hudson, Dayan Viciedo + some other pieces work for both teams?

[Kelbysdaddy]

Could a trade of Prince Fielder and Dave Bush to the White Sox for Daniel Hudson, Dayan Viciedo + some other pieces work for both teams?

 

the white sox are looking to make a push and kenny williams has said he'd rather win now than rely on his prospects. he is also known to be interested in fielder. fielder/bush/villanueva for hudson/viciedo/flowers/brent morel/jordan danks. i LOVE that deal. viciedo at first. hudson and flowers are ready now and danks and morel could very well be ready next year. flowers or lucroy could be delt, i really like lucroy but flowers looks like the real deal. then deal hart and lucroy to tampa for davis or hellickson. i think everyone is really under valuing hart and with how many teams are interested in corey it could be done. jake mcgee would be a nice piece to work in from tampa as well.

[JohnBriggs12]

The White Sox may covet Fielder's ability, but not to the extent they'd give up just Hudson, much less Hudson and Viciedo for a year and a half of Prince. Prince isn't going to bring any team's top 2 prospects. Especially now that Peavy's out, Hudson is being counted on heavily and I seriously doubt they think a guy like Dave Bush would be better than Hudson even now. Williams is leery of the NL to AL move for Oswalt, so imagine him pondering Dave Bush in the AL?

 

That's even assuming the Sox actually do a complete 180 and Reinsdorf gives them the okay to go for a Boras client. Reinsdorf loathes Boras.

 

The best the Sox would offer is someone like Carlos Torres who's been good at AAA the last couple years but who turns 28 in October or Jeff Marquez, who's a little younger but less accomplished.

 

Maybe you could get Torres and Morel if you threw in Villanueva and say Taylor Green. But forget about Hudson as the Sox would view Fielder strictly as a rental. I'd assume that would prompt a move to 1B for McGehee, and Morel at 3B either alone or in a platoon with Gamel.

[brewmann04]

what strikes me is that it now seems we lucky to get anything good for Prince, boy how things have changed.

[NievesNoNO]

what strikes me is that it now seems we lucky to get anything good for Prince, boy how things have changed.

I think as we get closer to the deadline teams will become more desperate, assuming the Brewers will consider trading him this year. We may not get a large haul for him but there will be some quality options available. I still believe we'll get more for him this year rather than waiting until the off-season.

[Warning Track Power]

The Dodgers may still be in limbo in terms of their financial situation but Manny does come off the books after this year so that could be conceivable but I don't see the Dodgers trading for Fielder and having Loney on the team so either Loney is coming to Milwaukee or is traded to another team before that happens.

Loney is EXACTLY the type of hitter I would love to see the Brewers acquire in general. He doesn't have to hit 25 or 30 HRs in order to produce. Only 6 HRs yet 63 RBIs! The one problem I have with the offense is it still so HR-reliant. Bats like his are what the Brewers should be targeting to compliment whatever sluggers we have left once Prince and Hart are traded.

[PilprinBuddha]

I would tale Loney in a Heartbeat

[Invader3K]

Loney would be nice to have around, but I wouldn't want him as the centerpiece of a deal for Prince. I'd still want one high quality SP in return.

[brains and braun]

Skip Loney. Why would you want to water down the return on any of our guys for a player like that? We are going nowhere this season, and could easily find a new first baseman either from within or on the FA market next year. Pitching, pitching, and more pitching is what I would want for any of our guys.

[JohnBriggs12]

what strikes me is that it now seems we lucky to get anything good for Prince, boy how things have changed.

I think Fielder's value as a trading piece has always been over-hyped for two reasons. One is most contending teams have very productive hitters playing first base already. Second is, with Boras as his agent, 95 % of teams are in exactly the same boat Brewers are in. Boras wants him to get to FA and they would be renting him.

 

Throw in his season long struggles hitting with men on base, the return to form of David Ortiz, and the ever increasing value teams place on holding on to premier pitching prospects, and there's even less chance the Brewers get back anywhere near his value. If you want a Sexson type deal in the offseason where you take a bunch of mediocre and marginal guys, and think that's better than another year of Fielder followed by getting two high draft picks, be my guest. I'll take the extra year of Fielder and the picks myself.

[Oldcity]

I swear some people see home runs as a bad thing. Loney has a career .805 OPS. That's bad for a first baseman. He has those RBIs because he has guys like Ethier (.379 OBP), Furcal (.383 OBP), Manny (.412) and Carroll (.391 OBP) on base for him.

[brains and braun]

They will get more than what we got in the Richie Sexson deal. Part of the reason we got that return, imo, is that our team had countless holes to fill and need quantity as much as quality. I agree that the Brewers wouldn't want to take that kind of deal, JB, but I think you are still undervaluing what Fielder is worth. If Hart is possibly worth Davis, isn't Fielder worth a good deal more?

[endaround]

Loney is at best an average to slightly above average player. He'll have 4 years of service time at the end of the year and is about to get rather expensive for an averagish 1B with defense issues. You take him back in a trade for Fielder to fit Fielder in the contract space with the Dodgers not because he has any value otherwise.

[JohnBriggs12]

They will get more than what we got in the Richie Sexson deal. Part of the reason we got that return, imo, is that our team had countless holes to fill and need quantity as much as quality. I agree that the Brewers wouldn't want to take that kind of deal, JB, but I think you are still undervaluing what Fielder is worth. If Hart is possibly worth Davis, isn't Fielder worth a good deal more?

Answer: No. Hart is cheaper and plays OF which brings a lot more teams into play.

 

Look it's not impossible for a team like the Rockies with Helton struggling and now on the DL to think Fielder gets them over the top and for them to make a nice offer. But can they take on his salary even now and would they actually part with 22 year old Jhoulys Chacin whom I'm sure the Brewers would want? Perhaps, but only if the Brewers toss in another arm.

[RyDogg66]

Prediction: when Prince Fielder signs his Free Agent deal it will immediately become the worst contract in baseball.

[804Sox]

Just because more teams have expressed interest in acquiring Hart doesn't mean he is more valuable or has higher trade value. More teams are interested in Hart because he makes less money, will cost less in prospects, and plays a position that the interested teams need (as opposed to 1B, where most teams have serviceable players)

 

I think Hart's value/trade value is being tremendously oversold. He is still a flawed player, and the teams asking about him know this just as well as we do. His hot first half has not led well managed teams like the Rays to believe he's a superstar, and even poorly run teams like the Giants have sufficiently realistic perceptions of his value to not give up top-flight MLB-ready pitching for him. Adding fungible pieces like Coffey (a solid reliever) will not change that fact. Hart will not be traded for Bumgarner. Hart will not be traded for Hellickson. Hart will not be traded for Teheran and probably not even Minor. On the other hand, Prince's value has not diminished as much as some think. Unfortunately, the market for his services is relatively small, but the Brewers need not rush to move him. Fielder is an elite power hitter, and very good overall player that I would compare more to Ryan Howard than Texeira or others. When Prince is traded, the return will be substantial (but this doesn't mean Hellickson + Colome + Moore or whatever . . . pitching prospects have substantial value too).

[Never Outhustled]

Just because more teams have expressed interest in acquiring Hart doesn't mean he is more valuable or has higher trade value. More teams are interested in Hart because he makes less money, will cost less in prospects, and plays a position that the interested teams need (as opposed to 1B, where most teams have serviceable players)

I disagree. Who is available that is better than Hart? Hart is highly sought after because he is the best available RF.

[Never Outhustled]

Loney is at best an average to slightly above average player. He'll have 4 years of service time at the end of the year and is about to get rather expensive for an averagish 1B with defense issues. You take him back in a trade for Fielder to fit Fielder in the contract space with the Dodgers not because he has any value otherwise.

 

I agree mostly, but I don' even think he's average. He has been worth, on average, less than 2 WAR a year. I would rather throw cash into the deal than take back Loney.

[sargennm]

Just because more teams have expressed interest in acquiring Hart doesn't mean he is more valuable or has higher trade value. More teams are interested in Hart because he makes less money, will cost less in prospects, and plays a position that the interested teams need (as opposed to 1B, where most teams have serviceable players)

 

I think Hart's value/trade value is being tremendously oversold. He is still a flawed player, and the teams asking about him know this just as well as we do. His hot first half has not led well managed teams like the Rays to believe he's a superstar, and even poorly run teams like the Giants have sufficiently realistic perceptions of his value to not give up top-flight MLB-ready pitching for him. Adding fungible pieces like Coffey (a solid reliever) will not change that fact. Hart will not be traded for Bumgarner. Hart will not be traded for Hellickson. Hart will not be traded for Teheran and probably not even Minor. On the other hand, Prince's value has not diminished as much as some think. Unfortunately, the market for his services is relatively small, but the Brewers need not rush to move him. Fielder is an elite power hitter, and very good overall player that I would compare more to Ryan Howard than Texeira or others. When Prince is traded, the return will be substantial (but this doesn't mean Hellickson + Colome + Moore or whatever . . . pitching prospects have substantial value too).

Limited supply+More demand=higher value, which is why Hart will bring back better than his perceived overall value if he's traded now and why Prince would bring back lesser value. This is a concept that's true in virtually every business, including baseball. Some of the top prospect trades are a bit pie-in-the-sky, but they are no more ridiculous than the idea that the Brewers should settle for a project like Sanchez or unwanted prospects.

[Funketown]

Did anybody catch Boras' comment:

 

“If you look at Mark Teixeira’s contract, he made the Yankees money,” Boras said. “How many teams would take on Mark Teixeira’s contract? I would say 20. The reason is it’s good business to do that. Those players are invaluable.”

 

I know he's playing the agent role, but I'm curious about how many teams would actually pick up Teixera's current deal? Would any team pick that up right now?

[brains and braun]

Position and money aside, you cannot convince me that Corey Hart is more valuable than Prince. Sure his defense negates his value, he will cost a ton, and could decline early due to his body. But Prince is a special hitter, and not just for power. After his "bad" half season, he is still almost OPSing .900. And last season I believe he and Pujols were the only guys to OPS over 1 for the season. Even a bad year for Prince is probably .875 or higher OPS and 30 homers. Are you telling me we won't be able to find a suitor, particularly from an A.L. team between now and next season? So we don't get a Tex-type haul. Prince has got to be worth AT LEAST one top-tier pitching prospect with little service time and a few next tier prospects. Plus, even if we trade Prince and he walks after next year, that team gets Type A compensation. It's not like Corey isn't a defensive liability. To argue that Hart is more valuable than Prince is crazy. I'm not buying, and you shouldn't be selling, J.B.