Alumni Thread

[mls4]

Doug Davis is scheduled to make his Cubs debut tonight against San Fransisco.

[Mass Haas]

Chasers' Cain hits for the cycle -- Slumping Royals farmhand plates career-high seven runs

[tyguy20204]

Lawrie is going to be a monster on the offensive end. But he's also made seven errors so far, a .939 fielding percentage. That being said, he is entirely new to the 3B position and so he could definitely improve. Even if he has to move to the outfield, his bat will play there.

[jjfanec]

Lawrie is going to be a monster on the offensive end. But he's also made seven errors so far, a .939 fielding percentage. That being said, he is entirely new to the 3B position and so he could definitely improve. Even if he has to move to the outfield, his bat will play there.

Lawrie seems like Mat Gamel with a better bat. The team will try him a positions where his bat could be a huge plus but in the end he ends up as a corner OF'er or at 1B. Not a bad thing at all.

[Mass Haas]

Mariner RHP Tom Wilhelmsen optioned to AA Jackson to be stretched out as a starter (Rotoworld). He'll likely face the Stars in Huntsville in mid-June.

[battlekow]

Daily Dish: Brett Lawrie Crushing Triple-A For Jays

Jim Shonerd/Baseball America

It's understandable if a player struggles when he gets moved up to a level that may be advanced for his age, which makes it all the more impressive when a player in that situation excels.

And then there's Brett Lawrie.

With the Brewers' Double-A Huntsville affiliate last year, Lawrie was the Southern League's second-youngest regular while hitting .285/.346/.451. For an encore, the 21-year-old has torn up the Triple-A Pacific Coast League after coming over to the Blue Jays in the offseason trade that sent Shaun Marcum to Milwaukee. Lawrie, the PCL's youngest position player and second-youngest player overall to 20-year-old Astros righthander Jordan Lyles, has hit .337/.395/.615 through 169 at-bats for Las Vegas.

Lawrie's latest feat came Tuesday afternoon against Round Rock, going 3-for-3 with a walk and finishing a double short of the cycle. Lawrie hit an opposite field home run in the third inning, his ninth of the season, and added his third triple of the year in the eighth, helping spark a rally that saw the 51s overcome an 8-3 deficit for a 9-8 win. Lawrie walked and went on to score the winning run in the ninth.

While Cashman Field in Las Vegas is one of the minors' most noted launching pads—six of his nine homers have come at home—he's still been plenty productive on the road. Lawrie's hitting .377/.434/.638 away from Vegas, compared to .310/.367/.600 at home.

Lawrie's also making the adjustment to third base in Triple-A after having played second base during his time with the Brewers. He went through some initial struggles with six errors (four fielding, two throwing) in his first 12 games at third, but he's gotten more comfortable since. Lawrie's made only one error since April 20, a span of 27 games.

[battlekow]

Brett Lawrie's homered twice today (11 on the year). He's hitting .346/.397/.633.

[battlekow]

John Sickels has a scouting report on Brett Lawrie. Takeaway quote: "Based on his track record, and what I saw Sunday afternoon, I am convinced that Brett Lawrie has everything needed to be a superstar."

[TheCrew07]

Too bad I'm unable to hide this thread so I'm not tempted to read it, I find it completely distressing that we had to trade both Overbay and Lawrie to Toronto to get the 1 player we should have picked up from the start.

 

I find it hard to believe that any one of us on the minor league forum would choose Bush/Jackson if you put McGowan, Marcum, Bush, and Jackson's stats side by side even if you didn't know what they threw. When you take account what they threw, it makes even less sense as Bush, Jackson, and Marcum all had similarish velocity (yes I remember Jackson was a LHP), who had the best rate stats between those guys? Look at their Minor League stats through 2005... I can see shying away from McGowan who far and away had that best stuff, he always had some issues for being a top of the rotation talent. I just don't see how we willingly ended up with the 2 pitchers who didn't have an out pitch and didn't miss bats.

 

Putting everything together side by side for each pitcher I'm still shocked that Melvin took who he took, and that's why I have no faith in the organization turning the corner for a significant amount of time with him at the helm. Looking back I'm ashamed I was initially okay with the deal based purely on superficial analysis of where the players were drafted and not the actual talent that we acquired. It didn't take long to figure out none of the players was anything special and the Overbay trade was one of many eye opening occurrences over the years for me.

[DHonks]

TheCrew07, hindsight is 20/20. I remember being one of the few that didn't like Zach Jackson, and even then I still feel the deal was adequate. We didn't fleece the Jays, but we also got the better end of the deal.

[TheCrew07]

I think you missed the point my friend... it's only hindsight in that I'm applying what I know now to what I didn't know then.

 

If we were to take the same group of posters from this forum now, how would we react to the trade using only the stats through 2005 and their scouting reports? I really liked the way Dave Bush played the game, he played without fear, he was a bulldog on the mound during his time in Milwaukee, but there is literally no way I pick him out of the group of Toronto's MLB ready pitchers at that time, and I'm certain no else would either. We've become so much better educated over the years as a site (or maybe I just caught up?) that I would shred that trade if it happened now, the same way I attacked acquiring Marcum this winter. Ultimately we gave up impact talent for a finesse pitcher that should have been acquired for similar talent years earlier.

 

Like Peaveyfury said last year, and rightly so, I've crapped on just about every move Melvin has made the more educated I've become and the more research I've done. He's wasted a plethora of resources over the years for very little return... the Morgan deal is looking to be extremely economical and maybe his best trade in Milwaukee. It's hard to screw up when you trade for Sabathia, Marcum, and Greinke, the pitchers are going to pitch well enough to have an immediate impact and in Sabathia's case the playoff appearance meant more to people than what would come after it. The fallout is harder to see and anticipate, and many posters around here still refuse to acknowledge that acquiring Sabathia directly led to the poor starting pitching in 2009 and 2010. Milwaukee just doesn't have infinite resources, every move has had a domino effect and will continue to domino, including the Marcum and Greinke deals.

 

We won't win consistently by patching the organization's holes with temporary solutions, we'll only win consistently when our farm system can sustain the big league team, and there's no way that can happen cycling talent the way that Melvin does. Somehow we've gone from trying to replace the depth lost in the 1st wave of talent that graduated to MLB with a 2nd wave, to trading away almost the entire second wave, and now we're trying to rebuild the system and replenish the MLB roster with wave 3. Color me unexcited about the direction of the organization... I long for 2006 when I was filled with overwhelming optimism, instead of the pessimism and contempt I now have towards the front office in general.

[twobrewers]

Cole Gillespie is up to 12 triples?!?

 

He only has 7 doubles - is that just some bad MiLB scoring?

[dadofandrew]

I assume Gillespie plays in the PCL West...big parks to make up for thin air. Bad OF defense, and bad OF arms. All that adds up to triples for gap hitters.

[DHonks]

TheCrew, I'd argue that we didn't trade away the 2nd wave. The second wave pretty much flopped. Players like Tony Gwynn, jr, Cole Gillespie, Laporta, Gamel, Braddock, Will Inman, Alcides Escobar, Taylor Green, Michael Brantley, Joe Thatcher, Steve Garrison, Mark Rogers, Angel Salome, Evan Anundsen, Alex Periard, Grant Richardson, Tony Festa, etc etc were supposed to be the 2nd wave. In fact, the only contributors from the second wave at this time are Braddock and Lucroy. Of the Latin talent, we have failed miserably. Wily Peralta and Rolando Pascual are still around, but at best we might get one mid-starter/reliever out of that wave.

 

The third wave is making progress with plenty of fringe pitchers hoping for breakouts and a few hitters or role players developing. Let's face it, almost no team has an entire lineup of guys like Fielder, Braun, and Weeks. We'll need some solid role players. This is where the Brewers have failed mightily. Our boom-or-bust approaches has hit on some stars, but failed with far more guys that had high expectations.

 

With our third wave we've had guys like Lawrie and Odorizzi traded away. But we got guaranteed big leaguers. At this point, there are no guarantees that either will ever amount to much in the big leagues.

 

Patching holes--as you say--with temporary solutions does work, but ideally most are coming from within the organization and are cheap. They can't be your top players, or you're asking for trouble. Betancourt and Gomez are patches, and both will surely be replaced after this year. As for your critiques of Melvin's moves, I've liked plenty of them. I can't critique the Sabathia trade (don't you wish we could get them to take Salome and not Brantley? He was my favorite prospect at the time). The Marcum trade looks brilliant so far. Even the Linebrink trade is looking good so far, and I hated the deal when it happened!

 

The biggest issue I've had with Seid and Jack Z is that we've now done three EXTREMELY pitcher heavy drafts in a row. It has yet to produce any positive results with pitchers, however, it has really limited the amount of talented position players in our system. I'd like to take this draft and obviously add roughly 10-15 signable starting pitchers with potential (mostly HS), but the bulk of the other players need to be hitters, especially hitters showing raw power, defensive prowess, OBP skills, and especially some with the capability to play shortstop. If we develop 2 or 3, I'd love to move one or two in trades or to other positions. Also, some left-handedness would be nice, although the lineup should get more balanced with Morgan, Komatsu, and Shafer lining up to take over in CF in the near and long term.

[battlekow]

The second wave pretty much flopped. Players like Tony Gwynn, jr, Cole Gillespie, Laporta, Gamel, Braddock, Will Inman, Alcides Escobar, Taylor Green, Michael Brantley, Joe Thatcher, Steve Garrison, Mark Rogers, Angel Salome, Evan Anundsen, Alex Periard, Grant Richardson, Tony Festa, etc etc were supposed to be the 2nd wave. In fact, the only contributors from the second wave at this time are Braddock and Lucroy.

LaPorta and Brantley were used to acquire CC Sabathia, who almost singlehandedly brought the Brewers their first playoff appearance of my life. Escobar was part of the package for Zack Greinke, hopefully yet to write his own legend here. Even Inman, Thatcher, and Garrison were used to acquire Scott Linebrink, who begat Cutter Dykstra, who begat Nyjer Morgan, a useful fourth outfielder. Not to mention that it's too early to write off Gamel, likely our first baseman next year, and to a lesser extent Rogers and Green.

It's harder to mentally judge the value of traded prospects, but it's unfair to broadly state that all of the above "flopped".

 

[DHonks]

Sessile Fielder, I agree on Gamel and Green. I was saying "pretty much flopped" when looking at the group as a whole. We may still produce 2 or 3 keepers out of the group, but on the whole the best this group was known for was 4 or 5 that were traded away and the vast majority of the rest that flopped.

[Mass Haas]

RHP Chad Robinson, released sometime in the offseason, signed with the Pittsfield Colonials of the Canadian-American Association of Professional Baseball (my wife, born in Pittsfield, gives a small fist pump). Robinson, signed for $500,000, was part of the Brewers' last draft-and-follow class in 2006 that also included Lee Haydel and Rob Bryson; shoulder surgery caused him to miss all of 2008 and seems to have robbed him of his former plus stuff.

Robinson was just released from that Can-Am League squad but quickly signed with the Florence (KY) Freedom of the independent Frontier League.

[jjfanec]

Hasnt been an update on some of these guys in a while. I will just look at the big guys

 

Odorizzi has struggled recently. His k numbers are great but has started walk guys. In his last start he went 3 giving up 7 earned. In his last 6 starts he has had one great start - 6IP 3H 8K - another two good starts - and 3 starts where he didnt make it out of the 3rd or 4th inning. Not sure what his pitch count is

 

Lawrie is hurt and should be back in a couple weeks. Was about to be called up.

 

Escobar is a on a nice little tear right now. Raised his average 40 points in the last two weeks. Still has an OPS under .600 but reports on his glove are reminiscent of what we read about him in the minors. ESPN had a piece on who should win gold gloves and Escobar was their pick

 

Brantley/LaPorta - both scuffling a bit .745 OPS's. Not terrible but not great. Still are young

 

Cain has bounced back really well from a slow start. Batting around .300 with an OPS at .865 which is very good in CF

 

Jeffress is either hurt or in the dog house. He has pitched since the 18th of May

[battlekow]

Jeffress is either hurt or in the dog house. He has pitched since the 18th of May

Jeffress was sent to AAA and is pitching a lot like Jeremy Jeffress.

[jjfanec]

Jeffress is either hurt or in the dog house. He has pitched since the 18th of May

Jeffress was sent to AAA and is pitching a lot like Jeremy Jeffress.

Thanks! I guess I should have looked harder but his player page on espn and i think it was mlb did not say anything about him being sent down. His issues with command still seem to be there

[jjfanec]

Odorizzi bounces back from him worst start to go 5.2 giving up 4H 2BB and 2 unearned runs while striking out 11

[battlekow]

In a shocking development, the Mariners have signed RHP Alex Periard.

[DHonks]

Jeffress was sent down to be stretched out as a starter, not to focus on command as a reliever

[jjfanec]

Jeffress was sent down to be stretched out as a starter, not to focus on command as a reliever

Are you sure of this? In a span of like 10 games he pitched 5 times and no time was over 2 innings. He has appeared in at least 10 games in AAA and only went over 2 innings once and that was 2 2/3. If they are stretching him out as a starter they are really taking their time. I am not saying you are wrong but it is confusing to understand how they are exactly stretching him out. Usually when stretching a guy out that at least start the game with him but Jeffress has been used as a late inning guy the last 7 times out. Maybe it started as him being stretched out to start but it doesnt look that way anymore

[DHonks]

That's what Yost was quoted as saying at the time of the demotion. I haven't heard anything since then though