anyone else seeing big changes ahead? Latest: Mark A says Melvin is going to be here a long time, Macha will not be fired Monday

[PKBadger]

Two seasons of over .500! One playoff appearance. Thats successful? Ok, I get it, small market teams will never compete. Small market teams will never compete.... I have to keep repeating that to myself, because Im one of the idiots that buys tickets and watch games thinking they can.

Considering the joke of a franchise that Melvin inherited, it certainly was a success. If you're hoping for a perennial playoff team you aren't going to be happy with the next GM, or the next...

What if they hired Terry Ryan? Can I be excited then?

 

* - not that I think Ryan is a legitimate candidate for the position, but the fact that a perennial playoff team exists 5 hours to the west of Milwaukee with the same limited resources sort of counters your argument. Certainly the Brewers have a farm system that could breed success at the major league level with the right direction.

[RockCoCougars]

I think that it's time for Macha to go. Say what you want about the dearth of pitching, I feel that the team has underachieved at least slightly under Macha, and it's looking more and more like he is a lame duck anyway. They have been pretty brutal since Weeks' injury last season. The fact is that Macha has done far less than Yost, and management had no qualms showing Yost the door in a pretty humiliating way. I say fire Macha, and do the inevitable and promote Randolph to interim manager for the remainder of the season (although I would prefer Sveum). One of two things will happen, the change will spark the team, or they will continue their descent down the toilet as happened under Royster a la 2002. If the team does collapse, they will then have no qualms letting Randolph and Melvin go like the purge of '02. Melvin has done many good things, but as someone mentioned, we are talking about two winning seasons and a Wild Card berth. Supposedly Melvin was the driving force behind the Macha hire as well, which he has to take accountability for. If all goes down, I would think that Attanasio would go for 'name' guys like Valentine, etc. when looking to fill the GM and manager roles.

[Baldkin]

What if they hired Terry Ryan? Can I be excited then?

No. Because the Brewers don't play in the worst division in baseball, and they've won as many WS as the Twins in the last 15 years.

Go back and look at the 2000-2002 drafts. Pre Melvin. Look at how many of those guys did ANYTHING to contribute to the MLB club. 3 of them? 3 of 120?

2000: Dave Krynzel is the only name I recognize from that list.

2001 - Hardy, Brad Nelson, Sarfate, Dillard, Chris Barnwell

2002 - Fielder, Eveland, Dillard (again)

He inherited a big steaming pile of refuse & Ben Sheets. He's turned it into a park.

They actually have guys in the minors who might contribute to the MLB squad!! It's amazing!

You know who the big hot new GM was 4 years ago? Dayton Moore. Ask any Royals fan how that turned out.

[ecjimg]

I almost choked on my dessert when I read that the "Melvin era was generally a failure." Do people remember what baseball was like here before DM? The guy has made some mistakes, but until I see us losing 100 games or throwing John Vander Wal out in the clean-up spot, I will consider quotes like the one above to be totally wrong-headed.

 

Sorry about your desert. Uhh, yes I remember what baseball was like. I had 20 or 40 game packages the whole time. And watched the games on TV. I consider those that accept sub .500 as successful to be "wrong headed".

[Tailgat0r76]

What if they hired Terry Ryan? Can I be excited then?

No. Because the Brewers don't play in the worst division in baseball, and they've won as many WS as the Twins in the last 15 years.

Go back and look at the 2000-2002 drafts. Pre Melvin. Look at how many of those guys did ANYTHING to contribute to the MLB club. 3 of them? 3 of 120?

2000: Dave Krynzel is the only name I recognize from that list.

2001 - Hardy, Brad Nelson, Sarfate, Dillard, Chris Barnwell

2002 - Fielder, Eveland, Dillard (again)

He inherited a big steaming pile of refuse & Ben Sheets. He's turned it into a park.

They actually have guys in the minors who might contribute to the MLB squad!! It's amazing!

You know who the big hot new GM was 4 years ago? Dayton Moore. Ask any Royals fan how that turned out.

Corey Hart was drafted in 2000. May have missed it since his real first name "Jon" was used on the list.

[logan82]

Manuel A. Parra in 2001 looks kind of familiar as well.

 

If all goes down, I would think that Attanasio would go for 'name' guys

like Valentine, etc. when looking to fill the GM and manager roles

.

 

I think that would be a huge mistake. I would prefer somebody with a more statistical approach who is also good with scouts.

[brains and braun]

Sorry about your desert. Uhh, yes I remember what baseball was like. I had 20 or 40 game packages the whole time. And watched the games on TV. I consider those that accept sub .500 as successful to be "wrong headed".

It's gonna be pretty hard to find GM that meets your criteria (sub .500 ball). Maybe the Red Sox agree with you, will fire Theo, and we can hire him. Who should be GM of this team? Until there's a better option, I think you stick with Melvin. And I'm not counting on the Terry Ryan pipedream, personally. For all of the "sky is falling talk" on this board, at least this team has talent and could turn things around. The Brewers had almost zero when Melvin got here. Weeks, Braun, Fielder, McGehee, Escobar, Gallardo....the pre-Melvin Brewers would have killed for any of these guys in the lineup. Not to mention the farm system. Call it mediocre now. It was a wasteland then. Maybe Melvin isn't the long-term solution, but he was far from a failure.

[sweepscc]

I think we have to remember to separate what Melvin was given through the draft from what he has actually accomplished through his own dealings.

He hasn't done a great job supplementing the talent he was given by Jack Zdurencik (Braun, Fielder, Gallardo, etc.)

[davego]

I've had enough of this team right now...but since you can't fire all the players...might be time for KEn to walk the plank.

[endaround]

sweepscc]I think we have to remember to separate what Melvin was given through the draft from what he has actually accomplished through his own dealings.

He hasn't done a great job supplementing the talent he was given by Jack Zdurencik (Braun, Fielder, Gallardo, etc.)

Melvin drafted Gallardo over Jack's objections. So yeah, not really as cut and dry as you think.

[Invader3K]

I think Melvin's recent failures just show what a tightrope walk being a small market GM actually is. I think the only real two mistakes he has made are the Suppan contract and the Hall extension. Take those two mistakes away and we'd have a lot more money to play with. Of course at the time I supported both of those moves, so I guess that just shows what I know. In order to make the playoffs regularly, a small market GM has to be nearly flawless in his signings and dealings. One or two mistakes make things very difficult, whereas a big market club can absorb those bad contracts or go out and sign a hot free agent to patch things up. Melvin doesn't have those luxuries.

 

Also, I again have to questions the comparison of the Brewers to the Twins. The Twins are in a much bigger metro market, just got a brand new stadium (which yes, we have one too, but it's already a decade old), and probably have bigger TV and radio deals than the Crew are stuck with. All things aren't equal, despite the geographic proximity of the two franchises.

[BrewCrewForever]

While things are rough right now, no way would I call the Melvin era a failure. Like it was said before, Bando was an utter failure and Taylor was not a whole lot better. Melvin built the Brewers into something and even a playoff birth so saying it was a failure might be a little harsh.

[Flood Pants]

The Melvin ere certainly hasn't been a failure, but the last offseason was and we're feeling that right now. I'm not sure if Melvin should be fired or not, but he deserves a lot of the blame.

 

I would agree with the sentiment that Macha isn't the problem. But I still think he should be fired, if for no other reason than PR. Firing him certainly isn't going to make this team much worse (how much further down can they go?). And it's not like they'll be extending him after the season anyway.

[Invader3K]

That's what I keep coming back to, Flood Pants. I don't think Macha has necessarily done a bad job this season. I have disagreed with some of his decisions, but it doesn't seem like he has much to work with at this point. What is he supposed to do when all his starters can't go more than 5 innings and whatever reliever he sticks in the game gives up multiple runs? But like you said, it's really doubtful there's any chance he's going to be the manager again in 2011, so it may just be time to cut the line and send a message to the team and fans.

[greeg35]

The last two years have been Melvins/small market version of playing for this year. He attempted to plug holes on the pitching staff and retool positional holes quickly and on a budget. Doing this has set us back financially and has kept a couple of prospects from getting valuable experience and in some cases has derailed prospect development. I don't just mean Gamel (who seems to have other issues) but guys like Adam Heether are types you want filtering up onto the roster every few years and maybe you get a Cirillo out of it at worst you get a solid versatile cheap backup. It made sense for Melvin to want to do this because I think not winning with Prince and Braun means his job and our time with Prince is getting short. Putting Melvin in this position has hurt the franchise.

 

This team should never ever ever play for this year....I still like the Sabathia trade though http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[RockCoCougars]

While things are rough right now, no way would I call the Melvin era a failure. Like it was said before, Bando was an utter failure and Taylor was not a whole lot better. Melvin built the Brewers into something and even a playoff birth so saying it was a failure might be a little harsh.

I hate to be a Bando apologist, but in my opinion, he was a much better GM than Dean Taylor, especially at the MLB level. In 7 plus seasons, the team was about 50 some games under during his tenure, under Taylor they were nearly 100 games under in four years. Say what you want about the drafting and minor leagues under Bando, he drafted Sheets and Jenkins. Now seven years later, not much has come from Taylor's drafting/development either outside of Fielder. Dean Taylor was the definition of an 'utter failure'. He gave away most of what little talent that Bando had assembled (Cirillo, Vina, Valentin, etc.) for garbage, and signed guys like Jose K and Hammonds, basically leaving the team in shambles.

[jeffy]

The last two years have been Melvins/small market version of playing for this year. Doing this has set us back financially and has kept a couple of prospects from getting valuable experience and in some cases has derailed prospect development. This team should never ever ever play for this year....I still like the Sabathia trade though http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

So the focus of the major league team should only and forever be developing prospects? At some point isn't the point of it all to try to win...such as by going for it with CC, when it looked like they had a shot?

[Invader3K]

I'll never forgive Bando for low balling Paul Molitor after the 1992 season and basically driving him out of Milwaukee to Toronto. I know Selig probably played a hand in it, but that was just disgraceful.

[RockCoCougars]

I'll never forgive Bando for low balling Paul Molitor after the 1992 season and basically driving him out of Milwaukee to Toronto. I know Selig probably played a hand in it, but that was just disgraceful.

Exactly why I have a tough time defending him. I still lay the blame more on Selig for either using Molitor as a sacrificial lamb for the small market plight and/or being asleep at the wheel due to his new job as 'Interim Commissioner'. Bando spewing the company 'just a DH' line, plus the way he drafted makes him hard to defend. That said, if you look the majority of his major league trades, and they weren't too bad. Taylor was horrible with player moves (outside of Sexson) and he didn't exactly build the Dodgers farm system of the 60's and 70's.

[Invader3K]

I think one of the biggest problems with Bando is that he would trade for OK-ish MLB guys to try and keep up the illusion that the team was still competing, when it was clear they should have been rebuilding. Especially after 1992 when not only Molitor left, but also other key guys like Bosio.

[Postseason2006]

I guess I do not understand why Dean Taylor gets all this heat. He got Sexson for little to nothing. He also drafted Sheets along with the unpopular choice by many in Fielder. He actually did more with less having Wendy running the team. Sure, he signed Hammonds but Melvin has alot more worthless FA's than him including Gags and Suppan.

 

Doing things such as trading for Felipe Lopez then not tendering him are things that he should be looked at. Trading Lee who was at a sell high point with Cruz is right up there with Vaughn and Sheffield as far as I'm concerned.

[Invader3K]

It's really hard to gauge Dean Taylor's stint since he was so handcuffed by Wendy's limited payroll and general incompetence. He did make some nice moves like you noted. I don't think you can really blame him for the Hammonds signing either, since the team was trying to make a "splash" with Miller Park opening up.

[greeg35]

So the focus of the major league team should only and forever be developing prospects? At some point isn't the point of it all to try to win...such as by going for it with CC, when it looked like they had a shot?

Not only; but always and forever. Prospects eventually turn in to regular players, players that are cheap for a good number of years, and that could be retained (Braun) if things fall right. I'm not saying we should dump them or ignore them once they are not prospects. Our main focus should be developing prospects to fill needs and allowing prospects to fill holes rather than spending good money on mediocre veterans to fill them. If you do this consistently, these guys will have experience and be more than prospects when you need them to fill the shoes of the big guys like Prince when they leave.

 

Higher level prospects like Gamel should be allowed to develop fully in the minors, then be brought up to fill a strategic/specific role that will help their development rather than hinder it. The last two years have been a hodge-podge scramble to fill immediate needs. Melvin's philosophy is that mediocre/expensive veterans gave him a better chance to win these past two years than "keeping the faith" in the minor league system that created our success originally.

[RockCoCougars]

I guess I do not understand why Dean Taylor gets any heat. He got Sexson for little to nothing. He also drafted Sheets along with the unpopular choice by many in Fielder. He actually did more with less than Melvin working having Wendy running the team. Sure he signed Hammonds but Melvin has alot more worthless FA's than him including Gags and Suppan.

Sheets was a Bando pick. Taylor was just a horrible GM. He hired Lopes and made stupid trade after stupid signing. Trades like Vina for Acevedo, Valentin/Eldred for Snyder/Navarro, Cirillo/Karl for Wright/Haynes/Blanco, Burnitz/D'Amico for Rusch/Ochoa, etc., etc. Yes, he traded for Sexson but the main piece in that deal,Wickman was a Bando acquisition. Outside of the Sheffield and Vaughn trades in which the team's hand was pretty much forced, most of Bando's deals worked out pretty well.

[bklynbrewcrew]

I think we can all agree that Melvin has been far better than Taylor or Bando but that doesnt mean he shouldnt be replaced.