anyone else seeing big changes ahead? Latest: Mark A says Melvin is going to be here a long time, Macha will not be fired Monday

[Beast Light]

jeffyscott wrote:

Ah, but what if you had been told in 2004 that over the next 6 years the Brewers would win more post season games than the Cubs?

Here is a little tidbit that I like:

 

The Brewers have won more post season games over the past 3 seasons than the rest of their division COMBINED. Its funny and its true.

 

That being said, I am still baffled when I think about how bright our future looked 6 years ago. One wildcard appearance and one win is all we ended up with in the playoffs...

[Ennder]

6 years ago I thought the team would be lucky to reach .500 more than twice in the next 5 years. Rebuilding takes way longer than people seem to think.

[PeaveyFury]

I'm more a fan of consistency, especially with younger players.

 

But Macha is consistently poor with his handling of our younger players in his time here so far, and that's another reason for firing him.

[Gobias Industries]

6 years ago I thought the team would be lucky to reach .500 more than one time in the next 5 years. Rebuilding takes way longer than people seem to think.

Six years ago, did you think we'd have 2 of the top 10 best hitters in the league on the team?

 

I didn't, and it's kind of scary to imagine we only will see one postseason appearance (where we got mopped) from having such a unique duo.

[Beast Light]

Six years ago, did you think we'd have 2 of the top 10 best hitters in the league on the team?

 

I didn't, and it's kind of scary to imagine we only will see one postseason appearance (where we got mopped) from having such a unique duo.

Not only do we have 2 of the top 10 hitters in the league but they aren't making a lot of money at the moment either. There was a lot of salary that could have been spent in other places to build around these guys. Places other than Hoffman, Hall, Suppan, Hawkins, Riske, Gagne ....

[Invader3K]

I don't know why Gagne always gets brought up in these discussions. He had a one year deal two years ago, and it's not like it kept us from making the post-season. People talk like we're still paying him.

 

I do think Melvin should be held somewhat accountable for the amount of dead money currently on the roster. Can't really blame him for Riske (no one envisioned him being injured over almost his entire contract, and he didn't have a big injury history), but it does seem at this point he overpaid for Hawkins and Hoffman, and of course we know the situations with Suppan and Hall. The decision to keep Corey Hart at his current salary seems really questionable too. It just seems like he's been very inefficient with how he's spent his money, especially this season.

[logan82]

Hawkins' contract is still pretty small and he started out pretty good. There is still hope he can be pretty good for us.

[brewmann04]

go out an hire the man from Bristol Ct now

[Invader3K]

go out an hire the man from Bristol Ct now

I assume you're referring to Bobby Valentine. I'm not sure if he'd even be interested in managing the Brewers at this point. I remember hearing that the two sides talked before Macha was hired last year, but I don't know if there was any real mutual interest.

 

 

[3Putt]

The Crew's major issue has been their inability to draft & develop young pitching. I can't hang that on Macha. Melvin has done an OK job with position players but our pitching continues to regress since Sheet's started his annual injury ritual. We propped it up with Sabathia but overall we haven't grown our staff since Gallardo. Ultimately Melvin and those under him are responsible for the situation we're in.

[Warning Track Power]

The Crew's major issue has been their inability to draft & develop young pitching. I can't hang that on Macha. Melvin has done an OK job with position players but our pitching continues to regress since Sheet's started his annual injury ritual. We propped it up with Sabathia but overall we haven't grown our staff since Gallardo. Ultimately Melvin and those under him are responsible for the situation we're in.

As long as you are referring to Melvin's ability to draft pitchers, I have no issue with this statement.

 

If you are referring to Melvin's signing of FA pitchers, I have issue. Like I stated last week on this thread, Melvin has signed pitchers who, while may not have been world beaters, have been average big leaguers before coming to Milwaukee...see Suppan, Looper, Wolf, Riske, Hawkins, Davis. Each one of these guys have significantly regressed as ballplayers in their time in Milwaukee. In my opinion, this is about coaching and pitching philosophy and reflects significantly on Macha, Yost, Castro and Peterson.

 

[bklynbrewcrew]

I dont blame coaching for the likes of Suppan, Davis, and Looper being bad. These guys are all soft tossers that werent very good to begin with. Throw in Dave Bush who cant even break 85 with his fastball and its easy to see why this rotation has been terrible the last few years. Building your staff around veteran SP who are all soft tossers is not a plan to use if you want to be a contending team.

[TooLiveBrew]

Bush wasn't stuck in the mid-80s on his FB until getting drilled with the line drive last season. He wasn't a flamethrower, but upper 80s is a nice edge over mid-80s. Also, I know you just made the statement to try & add emphasis, but he broke 85 on his FB as recently as last night (at least according to the stadium reading)

[bklynbrewcrew]

Bush wasn't stuck in the mid-80s on his FB until getting drilled with the line drive last season. He wasn't a flamethrower, but upper 80s is a nice edge over mid-80s. Also, I know you just made the statement to try & add emphasis, but he broke 85 on his FB as recently as last night (at least according to the stadium reading)

If he did break 85 I didnt see it but that doesnt change the fact that Bush has always been a soft tosser.

 

[PeaveyFury]

These guys are all soft tossers that werent very good to begin with.

 

Davis has been a high 3 to low 4 ERA pitcher 5 of the last 6 seasons, including the last three straight. That's pretty good. If he was performing as expected, he would have been a part of the solution this year, not part of the problem.

[TooLiveBrew]

Given that his average fastball velocity on the season is 85.9, yes, he's doing it regularly. Not that he's blowing anyone away, but it's just kind of annoying to throw that phrase around when it's really not true.

[trwi7]

Given that his average fastball velocity on the season is 85.9, yes, he's doing it regularly. Not that he's blowing anyone away, but it's just kind of annoying to throw that phrase around when it's really not true.

 

85, 86 is it really something to make a big deal about? His point was that he doesn't throw hard so he has to be perfect and when the whole staff minus Gallardo is built around those types of pitchers, it's most likely going to be ugly.

[Warning Track Power]

I dont blame coaching for the likes of Suppan, Davis, and Looper being bad. These guys are all soft tossers that werent very good to begin with. Throw in Dave Bush who cant even break 85 with his fastball and its easy to see why this rotation has been terrible the last few years. Building your staff around veteran SP who are all soft tossers is not a plan to use if you want to be a contending team.

I agree that building your staff around the same type of pitcher is not a good choice. Period.

 

However, I disagree with your assessment of Suppan, Davis and Looper being bad or weren't very good to begin with. With all three of those guys just performing as they had before becoming a Brewer would not only be the makings of a pretty darn good staff, but when combined with the Brewers offense, would make them almost assured of a playoff spot:

 

-Suppan prior three years before becoming a Brewer had ERAs of 4.16, 3.57, 4.12

-Looper prior three years befor becoming a Brewer had ERAs of 3.56, 4.94, 4.16

-Davis prior three years before becoming a Brewer again had ERAs of 4.25, 4.32, 4.12

 

Keeping in mind I don't have the in depth analysis some of you guys do regarding BABIP and the luck factor etc... I do know that through this basic research that their years prior to coming to Milwaukee were significantly better than what they have done in Milwaukee. What is the common thread?

 

To use a political quote minus the insult: It's the Coaching!

[logan82]

Gallardo isn't exactly a hard thrower either. He works in the low 90's most of the time.

[BrewCrewForever]

Gallardo isn't exactly a hard thrower either. He works in the low 90's most of the time.

True, but often times when he wants to he can reach back and throw 94.

 

 

[Invader3K]

If he did break 85 I didnt see it but that doesnt change the fact that Bush has always been a soft tosser.

Can we please drop this "soft tosser" meme? There are plenty of effective pitchers in baseball that pitch in the mid to upper 80's and are effective. How many teams have a staff full of guys hitting 90+ all the time?

[endaround]

K rate matters much more than overall velocity. If you want to worry about Bush's plummeting K-rate and rising walk rate and tie that to a decline in velocity that's one thing, but the idea Bush ahs always sicked because he doesn't hit 92 is wrong.

[bklynbrewcrew]

My point is and has been that the entire rotation other than Gallardo are all finesse pitchers that rely on location to be successful. These guys are all nibblers which cause high pitch counts and lack of innings pitched. It goes way beyond how hard they throw. Doug Davis for example has always walked tons of guys because he is afraid to be aggressive knowing that he doesnt have the pure stuff to challenge hitters on a regular basis. When most of the staff has average to below average stuff they also have to rely heavily on defense which has been flat out pitiful as well.

 

When you add up finesse staff plus below average defense at almost every position on the diamond you tend to have bad results. Is it really surprising to anyone that older finesse pitchers playing in front of a bad defensive club is a situation that was doomed to fail from the start.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

The Phillies won the series 2 years ago with one decent power arm. Bush was arguably our most consistent starter the last few years prior to his injury. I'd love to have a big power arm at the top of the rotation too, but they are hard to come by, often blow their arm out or can fail to execute just like anyone (see Parra, Manny).

 

I would agree that pitch to contact guys and a crummy defense are a bad match (see Brewers, Milwaukee circa 2010). I thought our defense would be better than it has been.

[logan82]

My point is and has been that the entire rotation other than Gallardo

are all finesse pitchers that rely on location to be successful.

Gallardo relies on location as much as the other guys. He doesn't have enough velocity to get away with bad location either.