anyone else seeing big changes ahead? Latest: Mark A says Melvin is going to be here a long time, Macha will not be fired Monday

[Invader3K]

I don't subscribe to Baseball Prospectus so I couldn't read the rest of the article, but it sounds more like idle speculation to me. I don't think there are any legitimate reports out there that Attanasio is trying to initiate a move, at least not that I've seen.

[RockCoCougars]

I still say Macha needs two wins in Minnesota to save his job. If the Twins sweep, I'd say it's 99% that he's gone Monday morning, regardless of what Melvin wants.

[bklynbrewcrew]

An interesting paragraph popped up on BP's "On the Beat"

 

He also has a couple of figurative headaches in his second season as the Brewers' manager. The Brewers are 16-25 and, though Macha has the support of general manager Doug Melvin, owner Mark Attanasio reportedly wants to change managers and give the job to bench coach and former Mets manager Willie Randolph.

 

http://www.baseballprospe...icle.php?articleid=10932

 

I think this is the first "report" we've seen of a desire for a managing change. I wonder if this is a true report or just speculation.

If this is true I really hope the team somehow goes on a winning streak and saves Macha's job. As much as I cant stand Macha he is far far better than randolph who makes Macha look like Earl Weaver.

[Invader3K]

I still say Macha needs two wins in Minnesota to save his job. If the Twins sweep, I'd say it's 99% that he's gone Monday morning, regardless of what Melvin wants.

I think that's probably a fair assessment at this point. Just avoiding the sweep and winning one game doesn't really accomplish much at this point in the season.

 

[greeg35]

I still say Macha needs two wins in Minnesota to save his job. If the Twins sweep, I'd say it's 99% that he's gone Monday morning, regardless of what Melvin wants.

Not saying it isn't true or isn't going to happen that way; but it seems like an awful way to make any personnel decision (sports or otherwise). "You better produce this week, or else!" Someone either belongs in their job or doesn't. There's been a year+ body of work to make an assessment from--why would a weekend series in Minnesota make a difference?

[Roscoe Chill]

It's really just a matter of timing. You're right there's been plenty of time for an assessment. You're obviously not going to fire a manager if you sweep the Twins. Timing.

[jrodbrewcrew]

I still say Macha needs two wins in Minnesota to save his job. If the Twins sweep, I'd say it's 99% that he's gone Monday morning, regardless of what Melvin wants.

Not saying it isn't true or isn't going to happen that way; but it seems like an awful way to make any personnel decision (sports or otherwise). "You better produce this week, or else!" Someone either belongs in their job or doesn't. There's been a year+ body of work to make an assessment from--why would a weekend series in Minnesota make a difference?

I don't see it as "You better produce this week, or else!", I see it as the straw that would break the camel's back. If they get swept, that would be a 1-12 stretch in their last 13 games.

[greeg35]

It's really just a matter of timing. You're right there's been plenty of time for an assessment. You're obviously not going to fire a manager if you sweep the Twins. Timing.

So are you saying they already know he's not the guy; but they just need the right opportunity to fire him?

[Roscoe Chill]

I'd say he's on very thin ice. How can you not agree? Especially when you have Dale Sveum and Willie Randolph ready as in house replacements. Especially when he's a lame duck anyway. If no improvement is shown, why wouldn't you think that the end is near?

 

But to answer your question, yes, they very well might already know that he's not their guy. Again, timing.

[PeaveyFury]

Especially when he's a lame duck anyway.

 

Just for the record, the Brewers do have an option on him for 2011. I completely agree with your post, though.

[greeg35]

I'd say he's on very thin ice. How can you not agree?

I agree. I just struggle to understand the logic and mechanics behind they way these things go. Maybe that's why I flamed out as a supervisor http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[jeffy]

But to answer your question, yes, they very well might already know that he's not their guy. Again, timing.

If "they" already knew that they wanted to make a change, why would an 0-6 home stand not have been sufficient to provide the timing?

[PeaveyFury]

why would an 0-6 home stand not have been sufficient to provide the timing?

 

No off day to make the announcement/deal with any ensuing staff departures and such, plus leaving to go on the road. Since this Monday is an off day and they'd be able to make the announcements in Milwaukee, that makes the most sense timing-wise.

[jeffy]

Fine but then the theory that has been expressed is they will do it or not do it based on what comes down to the results of one game. 1-2 in MN and Macha is fired, 2-1 we keep him (at least until June 7, I guess).

Was Yost fired on an off day, IIRC it was not. (edit: checked the 2008 schedule and it apparently was an off day)

[PeaveyFury]

Fine but then the theory that has been expressed is they will do it or not do it based on what comes down to the results of one game. 1-2 in MN and Macha is fired, 2-1 we keep him (at least until June 7, I guess).

 

I think they fire him unless they sweep, personally. NDog (the person whose point you initially responded to) pretty much said the same thing.

[jeffy]

I think they fire him unless they sweep

But that still means the decision (or carrying out the decision, anyway) may effectively hinge on the outcome of one game. 3-0 keep him, 2-1 fire him.

(Not that it matters, but I thought I was responding to: I still say Macha needs two wins in Minnesota to save his job.)

[PeaveyFury]

I get what you're saying, but I don't think it's applicable to the point we're trying to make: I think NDog and I are both simply arguing that it's a timing issue- the team has probably already made up it's mind one way or the other, but firing him after a sweep makes it look poorly timed.

 

EDIT:

(Not that it matters, but I thought I was responding to: I

still say Macha needs two wins in Minnesota to save his job.)

Ah, that makes more sense then. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[monty57]

owner Mark Attanasio reportedly wants to change managers and give the job to bench coach and former Mets manager Willie Randolph.

 

While I'm sure it's been swirling through his mind, if the team owner wants a manager fired, that manager is fired, regardless of what the GM told a newspaper.

 

That said, when a team goes into a season with hopes of fighting for a playoff spot and they are one of the five worst teams in baseball 1/4 of the way into the season, the manager has to start thinking his job's on the line. I share the worries of some previous posters, that Randolph will get the job, the team will play respectable baseball the rest of the season, and Randolph will then be guaranteed the job next season instead of looking for the best available candidate.

[bklynbrewcrew]

owner Mark Attanasio reportedly wants to change managers and give the job to bench coach and former Mets manager Willie Randolph.

 

While I'm sure it's been swirling through his mind, if the team owner wants a manager fired, that manager is fired, regardless of what the GM told a newspaper.

 

That said, when a team goes into a season with hopes of fighting for a playoff spot and they are one of the five worst teams in baseball 1/4 of the way into the season, the manager has to start thinking his job's on the line. I share the worries of some previous posters, that Randolph will get the job, the team will play respectable baseball the rest of the season, and Randolph will then be guaranteed the job next season instead of looking for the best available candidate.

Believe me if we hire Randolph we will be even worse off than we are now. Randolph might be the worst manager I have even seen. If you think Macha cant handle a bullpen correctly wait till you see randolph in action. This potential action is disturbing to say the least. At least with Sveum the players like him even if he will be bunting in the first inning. When was the last time the Brewers had a competent manager?

 

 

 

[TooLiveBrew]

"best available candidate"

 

As long as Melvin is hiring (or seemingly any GM, for that matter), it appears to be about a 99.9% chance that the person determined the best available candidate will just be another in the long line of all-too-similar, stuck-in-cliche-land MLB manager. It doesn't even matter much who the manager is, since they all seem to make so many similar mistakes. I'd love to believe that *this* time it'd be different, and we'd find that one perfect manager, but I just can't.

[bklynbrewcrew]

"best available candidate"

 

As long as Melvin is hiring (or seemingly any GM, for that matter), it appears to be about a 99.9% chance that the person determined the best available candidate will just be another in the long line of all-too-similar, stuck-in-cliche-land MLB manager. It doesn't even matter much who the manager is, since they all seem to make so many similar mistakes. I'd love to believe that *this* time it'd be different, and we'd find that one perfect manager, but I just can't.

I definitely agree with these sentiments. With that said there are managers that do have positive qualities such as handling young players well and handling the bullpen well. Macha has no positive attributes at all and the fact that he dislikes young players should have been reason enough for him not to be hired. Bobby V is very good startegically and handles young players very well. Davey Johnson is another guy that has shown himself to be an excellent manager as well but I dont think he would have any interest.

 

As for Randolph he is strategically inept and the players didnt get along with him in New York. Dale gets along with the players just fine but he is in love with small ball as he showed two years ago. I realize most managers are inept but Sveum and even more so Randolph are not upgrades over Macha. Attanassio is almost surely gonna want Randolph since he grew up in New York as a yankees fan and probably liked Willie as a player.

[TheCrew07]

I don't think a manager should be all buddy-buddy with his players, that's not necessary to be successful.

 

I do think that getting a manager who's willing to let players develop would be a good thing. That last thing you want any young player worrying about is making mistakes when he/she is in the field of play. I'll use Escobar as an example, every time he slumps at all Macha sits him down for a couple of days. On the surface it looks alright, Macha is chasing productivity because he needs to win now, he doesn't have a 5 year contract and that kind of security. Essentially what happens is Escobar is being punished for being inexperienced because he knows if he doesn't get a hit he's going to be sat down for a couple of games. So instead of relaxing at the plate he's up there worrying about not getting a hit, and that's exactly what happens to him.

 

The most important thing any coach can do is make a commitment to a young athlete so he/she knows that you have confidence in them, then the athlete can focus on the task at and advance their learning curve. If a player is always worried about what his/her coach thinks, chances are they aren't going to get any better or progress very slowly. I saw this with my own sister playing college basketball, she was so worried about what her coach thought about everything that even though she started all 4 years, she was essentially the same player as a Senior that she was when she was a Freshman. When you're dealing with experienced players, then you absolutely play the most productive player, regardless of talent, when you're dealing with youngsters you have to be willing to deal with inconstant performance in order for the athlete to blossom and get that elite production on the back end.

 

There have been some fantastic studies on the mental side of sports and more to the point life in general. Amazingly enough we tend to get exactly what we are thinking about. So for example, take my high school football players. If I have a QB who worried about throwing an INT, he's going to find a way to throw an INT, regardless what pass we call. If I have a wide open receiver running a route and he thinks "I better not drop this one", he's going to drop the ball. How many of us have done that in our lives? I know I have, I dropped the first TD pass ever thrown to me because I was thinking about not dropping the ball. If we flip over to baseball if Escobar is up at the plate worrying about making an out, that's exactly what he's going to do. If Parra is on the mound worried about throwing strikes he's not going to find the zone. If Weeks is worried about making a poor throw to first base it's going to end up being a poor throw. There is a direct correlation between our mental image and what happens in our lives, we have a way of manifesting/projecting our mental image into reality.

 

I'm sure there are many skeptics out there but if you're willing to expand your horizons anything by Dr. Wayne Dyer would be a good introduction into these concepts. It has the potential to make you a better coach, better managing employees, a better parent, a better spouse... basically a better person. I was introduced to these concepts at a very young age, my father bought many audio series to listen to while we went back and forth to school (35 minute trip each way) and did the stable work, we spent a ton of time in the truck. I got started with Personal Power, I'm not even sure that tape series is still around. If you're interested in the message but not the author there are plenty of other good people turning out quality products, Dr. Dyer is just the author I'm most familiar with.

[logan82]

I don't think anybody would disagree with the concept of self fulfilling prophecy. The problem is we don't know the players' mindset at any given time.

[TheCrew07]

There are plenty of ways to know without asking the athlete, experience, body language, performance... there's enough information to make educated guesses if you're into that sort of thing. Every athlete will be different, but I'll use Parra as an example. He regularly works 92-95 with his fastball, so when he throws his FB up there at 88 he's either hurt or he's thinking about it, it's not rocket science by any stretch. Look at how the situation got to Gamel last year, when he came up to MLB he was hitting the cover off the ball, when he went back down to AAA... nothing. I have a hard time believing he suddenly forgot how to hit. Sports is all about mind over matter, especially in MLB where ever player is talented, and it doesn't take a PHD in psychology to be able to understand how a production first environment can have a negative impact on inexperienced athletes.

[logan82]

All speculation on your part.